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 Expert
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Location: Central Texas | One of my Great Danes has had two episodes that I'm not sure what is going on. The first time was about three weeks ago...she was outside and as usual started eating grass. The next thing I know she is acting like she is going to throw up but instead takes off running and then drops to the ground and looks like she is choking. My GF and I immediately try to see if anything is blocking her airway...at this point her eyes have rolled back she is stiff legged kicking and her tongue is out of her mouth and completly blue. SHE WAS NOT BREATHING. I was sure she was going to die. We weren't sure what was happening so I'm sure we did everything wrong.. I was positive she was choking to death so I was trying to pick her up and do heimlick while gf was trying to clear airway. Eventually she quit kicking and took a gasp of air in. She slowly regained a normal look and was getting air again. She was not however herself. She growled at me and didn't want us touching her for about 10 minutes. I thought ok that was scary but she is ok and life went on......until last night. It happened again. I'm not sure what happened in the moments before because she was outside with the other Danes. We heard what sounded like a disagreement between the dogs and opened the door to call them all in and she was just around the corner on the ground eyes rolled back, not breathing, thrashing about and the other dogs where standing over her barking. I got the other dogs away and went through all the same things again. This time a huge amount of slimy foamy saliva/ drool was everywhere. Again just as I thought we were going to lose her she took a huge gasp of air in and came back.
So if you are still reading this ....thank you....and is this a seizure? I didn't think they stopped breathing and turned blue during a seizure.
She is 3yrs old. We own her mom and her brother. I have never experienced anything like it. Dropped her off at the vet this morning and they are doing blood work. I'm just worried and waiting for blood work to come back is taking forever.
Edited by GraciousLegacy 2014-10-27 1:20 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | Here she is chilling with me...
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1162
Location: White Mountains of AZ | Prayers your way!!! Hope everything is ok. I work at a vets office actually, so I'm sure they will probably put her on a medication/take X-rays.  |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Never seen a dog have a seizure, but have seen children turn blue siezing so I could see a dog doing it.
My guess is the dog developed epilepsy, I have a few friends who have dogs and cats who have been diagnosed epileptic, they are on human medication daily. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | I'm so sorry you are going through this. Its so hard to watch them have a full gran mal seizure like that! And it can be dangerous to get too close or intervene. They are so disoriented...scared and often blind for a few minutes after. Hence the growling etc.
Yes they often do stop breathing in a full seizure like you describe. In general it doesn't last long enough to be the primary concern. Just scares the crap out of their humans! Best thing is to stand back and watch it run it's course. Then help once they are once again aware of their surroundings. A dog that size you really cant hold on to during the episode.
I'm sure the vet will tell you all of this...but if the dog has a seizure that lasts more than a few of minutes...intervention is needed with valium IV etc. possibly. But in your case it would sure be tough to get her in the car and or treated safely just due to size/strength. Get them to give you a plan of what you can do if that happens. It's called Status Epilepticus when the seizre becomes prolonged like that.
Questions: How old is she? Any known metabolic issues?
The bloodwork may show them if she has any metabolic disease that can have contributed to the seizures. Most often...when they are having full generalized seizures and not having other undrlying metabolic issues etc... it is a case of primary epilipsy. Some breeds are known to often have this...but a Dane I don't believe is on that list. Just means it's not as common...not that it doesn't happen.
I hope your vet can start her on some anit-seizure medication and find a dose/type that works. There are more options now than in the past. I have a dachshund on phenobarbitol as we speak. I am able to maintain her at a low dose and so we went with this drug. It makes the liver work harder so that's a consideration especially at the higher doses. We may decide to ry a different treatment if things change.
Keep us posted. I know this is tough!
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | She turned 3 in July.
All blood work has come back normal. Vet also thinks it is epilepsy. She prescribed phenobarbitol 1/2 tab every 12 hours. We will go back in a month and run blood work again. Vet says if she continues having them this bad that they want to do an MRI. I am praying the meds work. That was the most aweful thing to witness. I just felt helpless.
A little backstory on my dogs...... I own the Great Dane that went to the vet for a C-section and the vet didn't get all the puppies out. He left 5 puppies inside of my momma dog. My Momma dog almost died (that's the very short version of a long traumatic story). All of the puppies were hand raised from day one by me. We have spent an insane amount of money and had a lot of heartache along the way. In the end I only had 4 survivng puppies out of 16. I kept two...this one and a male mantle, the stud owner kept one..the only surviving harlequinn and a very good friend has the other....female merle. I thought we were finally clear of all the medical issues and everyone was happy and healthy...*sigh*
Please pray that the meds work!!!!!!! |
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | Here is my momma dog....Taylor Dane...she is the merle....and the two pups I kept....Hooker, who is having the seizures and Sparrow who is blind in one eye from rapidly advancing juvenile cataracts. He sees a specialist for his eyes. We didn't discover it soon enough to save both eyes. I love them all! We were eating dinner in this picture...they are not allowed in the dining area when we are eating so they all sit and stare at us until we are done.
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | I had a hybrid puppy years ago that had these.... The vet put her on Dilantin daily and was right when he said she would prolly grow out of them. They quit about the age of 12 months. |
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | Awwww...I hope everything gets figured out. It sucks when our 4-legged babies are hurting but hopefully the Vet will get you set up and figure out. |
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | I am no help, but your danes are absolutely beautiful!
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | They left puppies in during a C-Section?? How in the world does that happen?? I have assisted in MANY c-sections on all kinds/breeds/sizes of dogs. We take both horns of the uterus out and work one side at a time. There is no way we would "miss" puppies...I do not understand how that happened. wow. So glad you were able to save the ones you did. I assume this current vet is not the one that botched the c-section?
It sounds like you are on a good plan going forward. I am guessing they already told you...but the phenobarb may make her drowsy/depressed acting at first. But her liver will soon get into gear and metabolize the drug more efficiently and she will perk back up. If it's a lower dose (You said 1/2 tablet but it comes in varying strengths ...it can be listed as either grains/tablet or in mg) You may not even notice the attitude change. She will get back to normal...it takes 1-2 weeks to reach steady state in their system. Until then...she could have break through seizures. She may also be more hungry/thirsty and therefore have to go potty more frequently until her system adjusts.
I hope she never has another seizure...or at the very least the phenobarb manages her condition!
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Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | Thank you Trailgirl. I am feeling a little better about the whole thing now. I immediately went to the web and looked up phenobarbitol used in dogs and side effects. I'm not sure of the exact dosage as I am still at work. I'll see it all when I get home.
NO this is not the same vet that did the c-section!!!! This is the vet that saved my dogs life after the other vet screwed it all up.
No one believed me when I called the Emergency clinic and told them that my dog that had a c-section less than 12 hours ago just delivered a dead puppy and was acting like she was going to do it again!! They kept trying to tell me it was not possible.. I was like I know it should not be happening but it is. I managed to get her in the car and left my son at home with the 11 puppies. When I got into the parking lot a tech came out to help me get her out of the car and witnessed the second dead puppy delivered in the parking lot. We got her inside and the ER vet ask me if I was sure she had a c-section. I got her to roll over and he saw all the staples and she was still covered in blood....that part is a whole other long piece to this story....they took her back and xray'd her to find 3 MORE puppies still inside her. She was becoming weaker and sicker by the minute. They did not want to open her back up due to her very weak condition and something about her liver wasn't what it should be....it was all kind of a big blur to me at this point. They continued to give her....I can't remember the name of the shot that makes contractions happen....the er vet continued to try and massage her and move the puppies to the birth canal. They sent us home to start bottle feeding the 11 puppies at home. I continued to call and check on her and they said they did not see her making it if she did not push the puppies out. As a last ditch effort I asked if I could bring the puppies up and let them nurse (this will cause me major problems later) they said ok worth a try. I loaded up 11 puppies and went back to the er and sat in the cage with her and the puppies for the rest of the night this was saturday. Skip ahead to Sunday and she has finally passed the rest of the dead puppies but she was super weak. Monday morning rolls around and she is discharged from the ER. I get her home and within one hour she bloats and twists. I am frantic....no longer have a dog vet that I trust....I call my horse vet and was told to get her there ASAP. I get her there and he and his wife (also a vet) told me that they would have to open her up and only gave her a 30% chance to even survive the surgery. I told them to do their best. Not only did she survive the surgery but she made a full recovery. I had to quickly give these two vets a run down of what had taken place with her for the previous 48 hours. When they had her open they saw and took pictures of TWO incisions in one horn and no incision on the other.
So.....short answer he cut the same horn twice.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | Holy cow! Wow...that's an incredible story! I understand why the ER was dubious at first...that just shouldn't ever happen! and we honestly would not have let her nurse the puppies at all...she was likely septic/toxic by that point with the non-surviving puppies still inside. ugh. Is that what contributed to the loss of some of the other puppies? So sad that so many sisn't make it. I'm sure you were heartbroken. But clearly you did all you could and then some. There are other therapies besides the Oxytocin injections to stimulate/support uterine contraction...but oxytocin is usually the most effective. (Calcium/dextrose etc)
The vets that saved her were awesome to say the least. That took some major skills and care. And I LOVE the name...Taylor Dane...too funny! (Child of the 80's here)
Hope all goes well for your pups. They look like fantastic dogs and we all know how attached we get! |
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Regular
Posts: 73
| I have a dog that has a seizure disorder it's been almost 6 years now and I keep her on a low does pheno in the am and a full dose at night with potassium bromide and she does well. It does make them very Hungary and more likely to develop pancreatitis if they are on a high fat diet. But really I can say she is a much happier dog on the meds . It takes a while to get use to it can make them very loopy at first but they adjust the dose. My dog had cluster seizures so she would have multiple in one day so I didn't mess around with trying alternative treatments. |
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Regular
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| My guy has had seizures for about 7 yrs now, phenobarbitol did not work on him & didn't like side effects. Potassium Bromide has been a wonderful med plus vertiually no side effects. Don't know why they always go for phenobarbitol first. Also please watch other dogs around while he is having a seizure they sometimes can be aggressive to a dog having the seizure just in nature, not always but sometimes. Weather & stressful situations can also play a part In having a seizure attack in a seizure dog, we give Benadryl to aid in theses situation. Also silverlining herbs has a combination of two products that really helped him at first for a while. Praying all goes well |
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Regular
Posts: 73
| Also diet makes a differance |
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 IMA No Hair Style Gal
Posts: 2594
| I feel your pain. About three weeks ago my 9 year old mutt started having seizures.
The first seizure happened when we were not home, and my dog was in the laundry room. When we got home all the laundry baskets were flipped over, and at first I thought it was my jack russell acting crazy (nothing new, she gets seperation anxiety).
The following morning I was in the shower and heard this HUGE commotion. I thought it was someone knocking on the door. Well, it kept going on and my little jack russell was GOING CRAZY. So I ran out of the shower and thought my other dog was dying. I wittnessed the deep part of the seizure and called my vet right then.
He told me it was a seizure. After my dog came to, I went to the vet. Got bloodwork done and got a perscription for phenobarbitral.
Got the dog settled, and went and got the medicine filled, wasn't home 30 minutes when my dog had another one. Went back to the vet, got emergency fluids and some valium.
Started the phenobarb. and so far my dog has been on it for about 2 to 3 weeks. He gets one pill every 12 hours. Two days ago the poor guy had another two seizures, but they did not compare to the first two that I witnessed.
Anyways, we got bloodwork done about three days ago to check the levels and we are currently on the border of either increasing the dose or leaving it. As of now we have decided to keep the dose as is, because my dog is a little loopy on it. He can't walk in a straight line, he sometimes falls over, and he has been showing minor aggression.
So we will do bloodwork again in three months depending on number of seizures.
I have to admit, I am worried. Since my dog is a bit older we do not think this is epilepsy, but the start of something whether it be cancer, or kidney or liver failure.
For now we are doing what we can to keep him comfortable and happy and keep the seizures under control and we are making it a point to monitor his bloodwork on a consistent basis.
I downloaded some seizure tracker apps to track when he has his seizures to see if maybe it could be weather, schedule or who knows...just trying to find a pattern somewhere.
FYI-a common side affect of phenobarb is an increase in thirst and hunger. My dog is now a drinking and peeing machine. He has to be let out very consistently, otherwise he will have an accident. I will keep my fingers crossed for you. We have been so worried about our dog. :-( Although my vet has also said most of the time you never find the cause of seizures in dogs, you just do what you can to keep them under control, and if we have 1 seizure a month on the meds that is what we area aiming for. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | run2winedge - 2014-10-27 8:13 PM My guy has had seizures for about 7 yrs now, phenobarbitol did not work on him & didn't like side effects. Potassium Bromide has been a wonderful med plus vertiually no side effects. Don't know why they always go for phenobarbitol first. Also please watch other dogs around while he is having a seizure they sometimes can be aggressive to a dog having the seizure just in nature, not always but sometimes. Weather & stressful situations can also play a part In having a seizure attack in a seizure dog, we give Benadryl to aid in theses situation. Also silverlining herbs has a combination of two products that really helped him at first for a while. Praying all goes well
I glad the KBr has worked so well for your dog. It's not typically the first go to drug for some reason...and it too has it's own set of both short term and long term side effects in some dogs. Yours must be fortunate to not have those side effects. Honestly the side effects are pretty similar to Phenobarb. (incoordination/lethargy, increased appetite etc). But like phenobarb they generally dissapate once the drug reaches a plateau of concentraton in their system. The longer term possible side effect that concerns most is the development of hind lim weakness. But again...doesn't happen for all dogs. One way to go if a dog can't me maintained/controlled with a resonable dose of phenobarb alone...is to give a combination of the two drugs. That can often work well together and give better seizure control.
One thing about KBr is that you have to watch/limit your dog's salt intake. So those yummy dog treats like beggin strips etc are high in salt...some diets are too. The salt lowers the concentratoin of KBr in their system. |
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