|
|
 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | Some of you have seen my post on Facebook about Joker and his breathing problems, but I'd be happy to hear more suggestions of something that might help him.
He's 21, and several years ago my vet told me basically has asthma/inflammatory airway disease. I've been giving him a little bit of ventipulmin the day before & day of his runs, but have been able to exercise him at home without it. Last Monday evening, he choked and spent a week completely sidelined but my vet told me Thursday I could go back to working him this week. My goal was to run him about 5 more times this year to try and win the district NBHA 2D saddle then probably retire him completely.
Last night I got home from work in time to do some stuff with him and decided to give him a few cc's of Air Power then wait 15-20 minutes and trot him around. I did that, and even just barely trotting (because I hopped on bareback with a halter in the dark) around his pasture for a couple minutes, he got winded quickly and struggled to catch his breath right away. I could hear him kind of wheezing when I hopped off and stood beside him.
Other than his breathing, he feels great and he LOVES to run. I cut his schedule back several years ago and in 2014, he has made 20 runs. None since Oct. 5th. I realize I'm very very lucky to still have him in my pasture at age 21, still sound and healthy, but I had hoped all year to win a saddle on him in his last year of running.
Joker won't put up with a bunch of invasive treatments - oxygen masks, etc - so if something really involved is all that will help him, we'll call it a career right now. But, if there's another option to help him make a few more runs, I'd love to hear about it. |
|
| |
|
 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | ventipulmin is used to treat RAO in horses.. i think its standard to do 5 cc twice a day in the really struggling ones. but read the bottle and dose by what the bottle says.
You could also ask your vet about getting an oral wash made of dex and something else, or squirting dex in his mouth and tapering that off over the course of a week or two.
I would also find out what is triggering his airway problems- if you need to take hay away or wet his hay down, or keep him out of the barn etc.. sometimes pasture can trigger it so depending on the horse they either need to be kept INSIDE or turned OUT. fun fun fun.. |
|
| |
|
Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | casualdust07 - 2014-10-29 8:26 AM ventipulmin is used to treat RAO in horses.. i think its standard to do 5 cc twice a day in the really struggling ones. but read the bottle and dose by what the bottle says. You could also ask your vet about getting an oral wash made of dex and something else, or squirting dex in his mouth and tapering that off over the course of a week or two. I would also find out what is triggering his airway problems- if you need to take hay away or wet his hay down, or keep him out of the barn etc.. sometimes pasture can trigger it so depending on the horse they either need to be kept INSIDE or turned OUT. fun fun fun..
We know Joker can't handle being on a round bale or eating dusty hay so I keep him turned out 24/7. He's actually in about a 3 acre pasture with one other horse and they've been there all summer. I would think that if his pasture was the problem, it would have shown up earlier. I've been crossing my fingers that the grass stays green as long as possible so he doesn't have to eat much hay for a while.
When we first diagnosed the airway problems, he was on ventipulmin daily and then I was told to taper it off and only do it leading up to when he runs. His breathing was worse then than it is now. What would dex do for him? I've never used it for anything. |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 429
Location: Oxford, Kansas | Have a 2 yr old that was just diagnosed with Heaves due to horrible horrible allergies to dust/pollen/mold.. I moved him out of the barn and into the round pen, water down his hay and grain, and he's on 30 days of 8 cc's ventipulmin 2x's a day, 45 days of Aleira (respiratory supplement) and Allerplex every day for the rest of his life... I'd talk to your vet about putting him on something to control whatever is triggering the attacks.. |
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | dex is a corticosteroid so it will reduce the inflammation he's got going on. But you have to taper that off as well and you can't just give it to him for a week and stop, because when you give cortisol the adrenal gland slows down making its own… so you want to help him out at first and then taper it to allow his adrenal gland to adjust.
Also remember dex will give the same side effects as bute and banamine as far as risk for ulcers. |
|
| |
|
Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Talk to RLB on here... or add her on fb. She has been through the ringer with her horse. She at one time was steaming his hay with a homemade steamer, and now I believe she feeds just hay cubes. She has tried a number of things as hers has severe allergies/heaves.
Another friend of mine had good luck giving a cough-syrup type product before working him that was all natural, but I can't for the life of me remember the name of it. It smelled like Vicks Vaporub.
Best of luck with the issue! :) |
|
| |
|
 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | i think dex would help as well...you could try sodium cromolyn injections(best to ask your vet about that and how to give it..its a tricky shot)
maybe up the venti dosage
air power from finish line is very good (i actually like it better than venti)
and we feed cubes and pour water on them to stop any fines or dust
is he a bleeder?
m
Edited by mruggles 2014-10-29 10:13 AM
|
|
| |
|
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1162
Location: White Mountains of AZ | I guess the suggestion of hitting up some racehorse owners/farms for some Clenbuterol are out of the question eh?.... JK!!!! Other than my smarta**y remark...I have nothing. But good luck I know these knowledgeable people will give you advice better than mine!!! |
|
| |
|
  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I have had good luck with Lung Aid for my horses with allergies. |
|
| |
|
 Saint Stacey
| QH<3er - 2014-10-29 8:52 AM
I guess the suggestion of hitting up some racehorse owners/farms for some Clenbuterol are out of the question eh?.... JK!!!! Other than my smarta**y remark...I have nothing. But good luck I know these knowledgeable people will give you advice better than mine!!!
While I get that this was meant to be a smart ass remark, ventipulmin is clenbuterol. Ventipulmin is the horse form of clenbuterol. Zilpaterol is the cattle form of clenbuterol and the cheapest which is why people are using it instead of Ventipulmin. |
|
| |
|
You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | SKM - 2014-10-29 10:30 AM
QH<3er - 2014-10-29 8:52 AM
I guess the suggestion of hitting up some racehorse owners/farms for some Clenbuterol are out of the question eh?.... JK!!!! Other than my smarta**y remark...I have nothing. But good luck I know these knowledgeable people will give you advice better than mine!!!
While I get that this was meant to be a smart ass remark, ventipulmin is clenbuterol. Ventipulmin is the horse form of clenbuterol. Zilpaterol is the cattle form of clenbuterol and the cheapest which is why people are using it instead of Ventipulmin.
beat me to it. the OP would be using clenbuterol for its intended purpose. Clenbuterol isn't a bad drug. its bad when people use it as a performance enhancer. |
|
| |
|
Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | casualdust07 - 2014-10-29 10:37 AM SKM - 2014-10-29 10:30 AM QH<3er - 2014-10-29 8:52 AM I guess the suggestion of hitting up some racehorse owners/farms for some Clenbuterol are out of the question eh?.... JK!!!! Other than my smarta**y remark...I have nothing. But good luck I know these knowledgeable people will give you advice better than mine!!! While I get that this was meant to be a smart ass remark, ventipulmin is clenbuterol. Ventipulmin is the horse form of clenbuterol. Zilpaterol is the cattle form of clenbuterol and the cheapest which is why people are using it instead of Ventipulmin. beat me to it. the OP would be using clenbuterol for its intended purpose. Clenbuterol isn't a bad drug. its bad when people use it as a performance enhancer.
I have no issue giving him Ventipulmin, but I don't want to give it every single day. A few times a week is enough. He's comfortable and happy in his pasture without it, but to exercise and run barrels, he needs some help. Ventipulmin does help, but it becomes cost-prohibitive pretty quickly if I have to give 5cc every day......that's about $5 (maybe more now, I bought a big bottle last spring and still have some left) extra per day on top of $70 per month in supplements that he gets and a $10.50 Flair strip for every run. I love Joker but he doesn't enjoy a bunch of extra treatments so I may just have to be happy taking him for trail rides or tying goats off him a few times a year instead. |
|
| |
|
 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
Location: Sperry, OK | Maybe allergy test him and see what he is actually allergic to and treat accordingly. |
|
| |
|
 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| You might try a playing with the amount of ventipulmin to see if you can give a lower dose. My mare has respiratory issues and is coming back from having pneumonia this summer. When I started legging her back up I could tell she was having trouble breathing so I started her on ventipulmin. She is a large mare so I started out with the recommended dosage per weight. Then I started decreasing the amount by half a cc until I found the point where it's no longer helping. She feels great on 2.5-3cc, but when I dropped it down to 2cc I could tell it was not enough. I only dose her on days that I ride, but if all I plan to do is walk down the road she is fine without it. I give it to her 2-3 hours before I ride as that seems to be the most effective for her. I also give her Super Wind, which I think is similar to Air Power, about 30 minutes prior to riding. I hope to eventually wean her off of the ventipulmin. My vet also prescribed Dex on the days that I run. He initially started me out on a higher dose, and I've been backing off gradually to see what is the lowest amount that helps. I also hope to eventually wean her off of this after all of the after effects of the pneumonia are gone.
|
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| How did the vet clear the horse to go back to work?
Did he scope the lungs? Listen to them?
Since the horse is a choke I question aspiration pneumonia, if he was mine I would be getting a bronchoscopy performed to rule this out, plus a CBC to ensure wcb is normal, if all this checked out my vet generally recommends a 14 day tx program of ventipulmin and banamine (the anti inflammatory as he is opposed to dex) |
|
| |
|
 Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | Mel - I hope you figure this out. Kinda been dealing with this and Dinero.
|
|
| |
|
Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| cheryl makofka - 2014-10-29 11:27 AM
How did the vet clear the horse to go back to work?
Did he scope the lungs? Listen to them?
Since the horse is a choke I question aspiration pneumonia, if he was mine I would be getting a bronchoscopy performed to rule this out, plus a CBC to ensure wcb is normal, if all this checked out my vet generally recommends a 14 day tx program of ventipulmin and banamine (the anti inflammatory as he is opposed to dex)
I agree with this. When my mare got sick they did a tracheal wash and found 4 bacteria, so they were concerned about choke. Before she was cleared to do anything but stand around and get better we made sure her blood work was all back to normal.
Cheryl - Do you get the same results from banamine as you would from dex? I don't necessarily like giving dex, but it's working and I'm afraid to change. But if I could get the same results from banamine would I be better to switch? |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Jenbabe - 2014-10-29 11:38 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-10-29 11:27 AM
How did the vet clear the horse to go back to work?
Did he scope the lungs? Listen to them?
Since the horse is a choke I question aspiration pneumonia, if he was mine I would be getting a bronchoscopy performed to rule this out, plus a CBC to ensure wcb is normal, if all this checked out my vet generally recommends a 14 day tx program of ventipulmin and banamine (the anti inflammatory as he is opposed to dex)
I agree with this. When my mare got sick they did a tracheal wash and found 4 bacteria, so they were concerned about choke. Before she was cleared to do anything but stand around and get better we made sure her blood work was all back to normal.
Cheryl - Do you get the same results from banamine as you would from dex? I don't necessarily like giving dex, but it's working and I'm afraid to change. But if I could get the same results from banamine would I be better to switch?
I can't tell you as my vet has never allowed me to administer dex for anything.
He says dex affects internal organs too much and can take 10 yrs off a horses life.
For horses with a low grade fever banamine will drop it to normal
Banamine is also a smooth muscle relaxant do it will allow the blood vessels dilate in the lungs to optimize lung function, if I notice my horses using accessory muscles to breathe and flairing of nostrils the combo makes them breathe regularly.
For a horse who had a nasty lung infection after he could return to work he was on the Flovent inhailer for the winter and has had no problems since.
Banamine also has antihistamine properties but not to the extent of Benadryl
I cannot answer if it would work for you as I don't know your horses history, it would be a conversation I encourage you to have with your vet
Edited by cheryl makofka 2014-10-29 12:49 PM
|
|
| |
|
Go Your Own Way
Posts: 4947
Location: SE KS | cheryl makofka - 2014-10-29 12:47 PM Jenbabe - 2014-10-29 11:38 AM cheryl makofka - 2014-10-29 11:27 AM How did the vet clear the horse to go back to work? Did he scope the lungs? Listen to them? Since the horse is a choke I question aspiration pneumonia, if he was mine I would be getting a bronchoscopy performed to rule this out, plus a CBC to ensure wcb is normal, if all this checked out my vet generally recommends a 14 day tx program of ventipulmin and banamine (the anti inflammatory as he is opposed to dex) I agree with this. When my mare got sick they did a tracheal wash and found 4 bacteria, so they were concerned about choke. Before she was cleared to do anything but stand around and get better we made sure her blood work was all back to normal. Cheryl - Do you get the same results from banamine as you would from dex? I don't necessarily like giving dex, but it's working and I'm afraid to change. But if I could get the same results from banamine would I be better to switch? I can't tell you as my vet has never allowed me to administer dex for anything. He says dex affects internal organs too much and can take 10 yrs off a horses life. For horses with a low grade fever banamine will drop it to normal Banamine is also a smooth muscle relaxant do it will allow the blood vessels dilate in the lungs to optimize lung function, if I notice my horses using accessory muscles to breathe and flairing of nostrils the combo makes them breathe regularly. For a horse who had a nasty lung infection after he could return to work he was on the Flovent inhailer for the winter and has had no problems since. Banamine also has antihistamine properties but not to the extent of Benadryl I cannot answer if it would work for you as I don't know your horses history, it would be a conversation I encourage you to have with your vet
This is interesting - |
|
| |
|
Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| cheryl makofka - 2014-10-29 12:47 PM
Jenbabe - 2014-10-29 11:38 AM
cheryl makofka - 2014-10-29 11:27 AM
How did the vet clear the horse to go back to work?
Did he scope the lungs? Listen to them?
Since the horse is a choke I question aspiration pneumonia, if he was mine I would be getting a bronchoscopy performed to rule this out, plus a CBC to ensure wcb is normal, if all this checked out my vet generally recommends a 14 day tx program of ventipulmin and banamine (the anti inflammatory as he is opposed to dex)
I agree with this. When my mare got sick they did a tracheal wash and found 4 bacteria, so they were concerned about choke. Before she was cleared to do anything but stand around and get better we made sure her blood work was all back to normal.
Cheryl - Do you get the same results from banamine as you would from dex? I don't necessarily like giving dex, but it's working and I'm afraid to change. But if I could get the same results from banamine would I be better to switch?
I can't tell you as my vet has never allowed me to administer dex for anything.
He says dex affects internal organs too much and can take 10 yrs off a horses life.
For horses with a low grade fever banamine will drop it to normal
Banamine is also a smooth muscle relaxant do it will allow the blood vessels dilate in the lungs to optimize lung function, if I notice my horses using accessory muscles to breathe and flairing of nostrils the combo makes them breathe regularly.
For a horse who had a nasty lung infection after he could return to work he was on the Flovent inhailer for the winter and has had no problems since.
Banamine also has antihistamine properties but not to the extent of Benadryl
I cannot answer if it would work for you as I don't know your horses history, it would be a conversation I encourage you to have with your vet
Thank you! I'll definitely discuss it with my vet. |
|
| |
Folks on-line