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 Ima Non Controversial Girl
Posts: 4168
  
Location: where the wind blows | but I could seriously kick AQHA and their judges for what they have done to western pleasure. There is NO WAY, NO HOW the movements they have those poor horses doing is NORMAL. I want to scream when I see it. I just logged on to the AQHA world show to be ready to watch the ranch pleasure finals tonight. As soon as I logged on a western pleasure class was going. I watched for about 1.5 minutes before I wanted to throw up. No one will ever convince me that that type of pleasure and that movement is good for the industry. There is a reason ranch pleasure and versatility ranch are growing. The horses are NORMAL in those classes. OK I just had to vent.      |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | It's awful... I HATE it!! Their attempt at huntseat sucks as well. Those people would get laughed out of a real 'AHSA' show. |
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 Ima Fickle Fan
Posts: 3547
 
Location: Texas | I can't believe that you don't like "hopefully" sound horses travel like they are lame...
Go ahead and add halter into your gripe and I am on the same page. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I agree, I find it very sad to watch. I could sell my lame horse as a western pleasure horse and you'd never know the difference watching her move.
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2014-11-20 5:02 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | WP horses are SAD to watch..........QH, Paints or Apps, they have been ruined by WP and Halter. I have seen many extremely lame halter horses too. Yes, they can stand like a statue, just don't ask them to move!! I really feel sorry for the horses. What a terrible life for them. I wonder how many WP horses just wish they could die to get away from the torture??
What good is a rule book when the judges do not follow it or the rules are not enforced?? I also agree that the "Huntseat" horses are a joke.........
Shouldn't horses enjoy what they are doing???
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  Making the post season
Posts: 7288
Location: your guess is as good as mine | Like! 
Back when I rode with a local horse show organization a friend had a gorgeous halter/pleasure mare that was 16+ hands. I always thought it was such a shame that she never could place at the championship show because her "slow" lope was so fast (hello - 16+ hands?!), but man was she a beautiful, NATURAL mover. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 554
| Omg it takes them forever to make a lap around the arena. Sad and poor horses! |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | it's because most trainers are also judges, until the judges quit placing these horses first, you can hardly blame the other trainers and riders that want to win.
My friend has her hunt seat horse at a trainer and she has spent all summer learning how to round his back up, bring his one hip WAY up under him to keep that forward motion and still be able to canter slow. If you look at them head on they are almost 2 tracking with their hip coming up beside them. It's hideous. |
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 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia |
I have to agree with all that has been said. Several years back I attended the world show and was absolutely disgusted by those poor animals - and still am. I just feel bad that they will never have the chance to really be a Quarter Horse - one that can compete in trail, track and cut cows, run around the barrels, etc. My heart hurts for what the industry has done to the breeding of these animals. And whats even worse is what goes on behind the scenes. Those horses are beaten, tortured and put in painful positions so they can win in the show ring. I've seen it all first hand. It's just not right. Im not saying barrel racing or any other discipline doesnt have its faults, but these pleasure trainers are lower than low. And I dont even want to get started on halter horses. Poor things. |
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Location: South Dakota | I am so fed up with AQHA...instead of defending the horse...they have allowed and promoted flat out abuse to the horse.
They could change all this insanity, by the way they judge events...Reward the horses that are allowed to lope and trot naturally.....the way God made them too.....Halter horses need to have emphasis on athletic movement....not be treated like a market steer.
My heart aches for all those horses...in every event ...that is treated like a commodity.
My vent for today. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | Unfortunately its about politics. But don't kid yourself, there is politics, abuse and sore horses in EVERY SINGLE event. |
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Veteran
Posts: 238
| Actually, I have seen an improvement in recent years. It's not perfect, no change happens overnight, but if you watch how a winning pleasure horse travels now as opposed to 10 years ago, you will see more forward motion, a more level headset and a straighter body as opposed to canted to the inside of the ring.
And if you go to the pasture of the truly well bred pleasure horses, you will see that this IS how they travel naturally. That said, you still have the horses competing that were trained in the last 10 years. They won't disappear over night, but changes have been happening.
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 Dog Rescue Hero
Posts: 1660
Location: Oklahoma City OK | Agree - I can't help but add my 2cents worth. I have enjoyed showing Wstrn Plsr horses of multiple breeds, but can't stand to even watch the current AQHA, Paint, Appaloosa wstrn plsr horses...my opinion....it's called TRAINER JOB SECURITY. Most of the time, only trainers have the dubious talent to get those horses moving so poorly....I'm hoping that most Amateurs don't know how to get them moving that bad nor do they want to. It's not always the judges fault - if that's all that is presented to them...that's what they have to judge. In any case, it's unnatural and surely not a PLEASURE for anyone: the riders, the horses, the spectators. I predict that it won't be long before the Ranch Pleasure horses start moving like that as well. Arghhh...Good reason to be a barrel racer.
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9991
Location: Kansas | I can't say I've seen any lately, are you referring to movement of the horse? |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | As someone who has competed in pleasure & a lot of other disciplines these threads always get under my skin. There is NO dicipline out there where the horses compete "naturally" they are all taken to an extreme because that is what wins. Reiners don't naturally slide 15+ feet or spin as fast as they possibly can, cutters don't naturally work a cow the way they do, pleasure horses don't naturally go so extremely slow, barrel horses don't naturally turn a barrel at a dead run......In each discipline the genetics are very specialized & the horses DO naturally have the charicteristics & conformational traits that allow them to do what they do. I've seen the baby pleasure horses lope across the pasture at the speed of a snail, it IS what they do. But I've been in enough training/show barns that I've seen what goes on behind the scenes in many of them. I've seen enough reiners & cutters with their faces & sides tore up to make a person sick. Trust me pleasure is not the only dicispine with ugly training techniques. I've also been in the barn of some of the top appaloosa pleasure horses in the country. And I can say first hand that the horses in that partucular barn are treated like royalty. Bottom line is competition takes everything to an extreme & in the end the horses pay the price in every dicipline.
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 Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | SaraJean - 2014-11-21 11:17 AM As someone who has competed in pleasure & a lot of other disciplines these threads always get under my skin. There is NO dicipline out there where the horses compete "naturally" they are all taken to an extreme because that is what wins. Reiners don't naturally slide 15+ feet or spin as fast as they possibly can, cutters don't naturally work a cow the way they do, pleasure horses don't naturally go so extremely slow, barrel horses don't naturally turn a barrel at a dead run......In each discipline the genetics are very specialized & the horses DO naturally have the charicteristics & conformational traits that allow them to do what they do. I've seen the baby pleasure horses lope across the pasture at the speed of a snail, it IS what they do. But I've been in enough training/show barns that I've seen what goes on behind the scenes in many of them. I've seen enough reiners & cutters with their faces & sides tore up to make a person sick. Trust me pleasure is not the only dicispine with ugly training techniques. I've also been in the barn of some of the top appaloosa pleasure horses in the country. And I can say first hand that the horses in that partucular barn are treated like royalty. Bottom line is competition takes everything to an extreme & in the end the horses pay the price in every dicipline.
yes....every discipline......
but.....the real issue is the judging and the judges involved all the way to the top of the association running the shows.....
although for the majority of horse owners, shows are of no consequence to them anyway... |
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 Veteran
Posts: 232
Location: Winging It in KY | smmthbr - 2014-11-21 11:21 AM Agree - I can't help but add my 2cents worth. I have enjoyed showing Wstrn Plsr horses of multiple breeds, but can't stand to even watch the current AQHA, Paint, Appaloosa wstrn plsr horses...my opinion....it's called TRAINER JOB SECURITY. Most of the time, only trainers have the dubious talent to get those horses moving so poorly....I'm hoping that most Amateurs don't know how to get them moving that bad nor do they want to. It's not always the judges fault - if that's all that is presented to them...that's what they have to judge. In any case, it's unnatural and surely not a PLEASURE for anyone: the riders, the horses, the spectators. I predict that it won't be long before the Ranch Pleasure horses start moving like that as well. Arghhh...Good reason to be a barrel racer.
Well, stopped in TN to watch the AQHA Novice Championships and unfortunately the WP was before the Barrels. What we saw was ridiculous, to say the least. The amateur novice and youth novice just stood around while their trainers yanked, jerked, snatched and spurred the horses into shape. When it came time for the class, the youth or amateur rider jumped on the horse in their thousand dollar outfits and rode in the class. When it was over, if they made the finals, the trainer was back on while the rider just stood there and watched. This to me is just ridiculous. These are supposed to be novice riders. What is the point? And as said before by others, the horses just look crippled and so unhappy. So yes, the amateurs are learning how to make them move this way. |
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | dhdqhllc - 2014-11-21 10:21 AM SaraJean - 2014-11-21 11:17 AM As someone who has competed in pleasure & a lot of other disciplines these threads always get under my skin. There is NO dicipline out there where the horses compete "naturally" they are all taken to an extreme because that is what wins. Reiners don't naturally slide 15+ feet or spin as fast as they possibly can, cutters don't naturally work a cow the way they do, pleasure horses don't naturally go so extremely slow, barrel horses don't naturally turn a barrel at a dead run......In each discipline the genetics are very specialized & the horses DO naturally have the charicteristics & conformational traits that allow them to do what they do. I've seen the baby pleasure horses lope across the pasture at the speed of a snail, it IS what they do. But I've been in enough training/show barns that I've seen what goes on behind the scenes in many of them. I've seen enough reiners & cutters with their faces & sides tore up to make a person sick. Trust me pleasure is not the only dicispine with ugly training techniques. I've also been in the barn of some of the top appaloosa pleasure horses in the country. And I can say first hand that the horses in that partucular barn are treated like royalty. Bottom line is competition takes everything to an extreme & in the end the horses pay the price in every dicipline.
yes....every discipline......
but.....the real issue is the judging and the judges involved all the way to the top of the association running the shows.....
although for the majority of horse owners, shows are of no consequence to them anyway...
I don't know that you'll change the judging until you change the mindset of the owners & the trainers. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I think the trainers/owners with the money would run off any judge that tries to bring in the drastic changes that many disciplines need. |
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Always Off Topic
Posts: 6382
Location: ND | and therein lies the judging problem.... |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | cuckleburr - 2014-11-21 12:27 PM
smmthbr - 2014-11-21 11:21 AM Agree - I can't help but add my 2cents worth. I have enjoyed showing Wstrn Plsr horses of multiple breeds, but can't stand to even watch the current AQHA, Paint, Appaloosa wstrn plsr horses...my opinion....it's called TRAINER JOB SECURITY.  Most of the time, only trainers have the dubious talent to get those horses moving so poorly....I'm hoping that most Amateurs don't know how to get them moving that bad nor do they want to. It's not always the judges fault - if that's all that is presented to them...that's what they have to judge. In any case, it's unnatural and surely not a PLEASURE for anyone: the riders, the horses, the spectators. I predict that it won't be long before the Ranch Pleasure horses start moving like that as well. Arghhh...Good reason to be a barrel racer.
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Well, stopped in TN to watch the AQHA Novice Championships and unfortunately the WP was before the Barrels. What we saw was ridiculous, to say the least. The amateur novice and youth novice just stood around while their trainers yanked, jerked, snatched and spurred the horses into shape. When it came time for the class, the youth or amateur rider jumped on the horse in their thousand dollar outfits and rode in the class. When it was over, if they made the finals, the trainer was back on while the rider just stood there and watched. This to me is just ridiculous. These are supposed to be novice riders. What is the point? And as said before by others, the horses just look crippled and so unhappy. So yes, the amateurs are learning how to make them move this way.
And this doesn't happen in the barrel horse world? Or the HUS world? or the jumper world? Its everywhere....not making it right but it is!!! |
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