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| Ive made another post before about this gelding and I'm back again with an update and a "what would y'all do"
Anyways for people who don't know, i bought a gelding, has a bad alley way problem. i had him vetted, he wasn't sound, had him fixed, now he's sound. If you want the full story on that i have the old forum. but needless to say he is SOUND. I've had 2 different vets out and called one of those horse communicators. (which i highly recommend!)
Anyways…..
he still is a nut. i wouldn't its really an alley way issue because i can get off him walk in to the alley get on and he's fine. its from the trailer to the holding pen. he'll warm up like a pleasure horse but once you start to head to the alley he go nuts! starts spinning and popping up. and everyone is like "oh just keep him moving forward" it doesn't work, I've tired. or just walk around and let him calm down, it doesn't work, nothing i have tired works. And i have tried almost everything. he will rear up and flip over I've seen him do it. he has never done that with me, never even reared. just pop up a little spin and want to go back to the trailer. he is a super nice horse. he placed 15th just the other day out of 300+ head. I'm getting more and more scared of him. i don't want to get rid of him but i will if i can't get this out of him. i assume he does that at the gate because he was hurting and its just gonna take some time till he realizes it doesn't hurt anymore.. i really don't haul a lot but he does get rode everyday.
my question now is what do y'all think about me sending him to someone who "fixes" problem horses? a lot of people have said no because they think it'll make him worse. but i don't haul enough to barrel races and that really were his problem is.. he needs someone to haul him and not run him and let him know that not every time he gos to a barrel race he has to be ran.
And so even if i just have him in a halter at the holding pen you can see him getting nervous. he is a complete gentlemen. i mean PERFECT will stand all day long but for some reason near the arena he just is a different horse. and he does it anywhere. even if I'm riding in an arena with no barrels just loping circles he is a completely different horse. out in a field he is perfectly fine.
i have found a lady a lot of people have recommended and I've done my research and she seems pretty good. she charges a killing but i just wanted some thought from everyone else on what they would do if he was your horse?
thanks in advance!! |
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Location: Stephenville, Texas | Have you tried "scoring" him on the alleyway? Going in and out in and out. I had one like that and then as soon as he gave me a problem I was to do roll backs off the fence until he behaved and then we went on to the barrels. (Ed Wright helped me with him) Sometimes I would go exhibition and as soon as he acted up I had to do rollbacks on the fence until he behaved. As long as I would take him and do that and work him slow he would stay good at the gate. He got so good I could walk other horses up the gate. When I stopped taking him and scoring him at the gate he got worse. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I was going to recommend what you already are looking into. This sounds like mental scars now which can be very troublesome to fix. Have you tried the calming supplements, never personally used them but I know some people swear by them. Take the edge off for awhile and see if he can relax at the races?
Have you tried taking him to some ropings or team pennings? Change of scenery? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| If he has you scared, then you are unwittingly making it impossible for him to calm down- it's a vicious cycle. I would either send to someone you trust to help him and you or sell him. It's not worth getting seriously hurt. I hope you get it worked out. It sure sounds like you are doing your best to resolve this. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| If you are scared he knows it. The slightest hesitation, shift in your seat your hand position all communicate to him. I'm sure he has some emotional issues and those take time and pathetic go heal. I know you said he is sound, but did you have him checked for bleeding? It will cause this kind of behavior. I had a mare that freaked out just like this although it wasn't quite as dangerous, no rearing. I only discovered her issue after she bled out BAD at a barrel race after my fun. Took her to get scoped that Monday. She was a chronic bleeder. She had some scarring on her lungs. Started her on lasix. No more bleeding. Just a thought. If you decide to go with a supplement for calmness try Confidence EQ. It's a new product you get from your vet. It's a cream you can rub inside their nostril derived from mare milk and is natural. You rub it in about 30 minutes before run. Have had some good results. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| *patience to heal. Yikes I really need to spell check myself LOL |
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Veteran
Posts: 227
Location: Heart of Texas | Sounds like a mental issue. If you can. I would give him some R&R time off from all barrels. Let him re-associate arenas with calmness and no pain. Maybe just walk him once. Step off in the arena, loosen the cinch and call it a day. Then when he's calm. Start slowly exhibitioning him. |
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| i have thought about sending him off but i don't want to make the issue worse. he is VERY fragile. i assume someone beat on him, his issue isn't the gate its the arena entirely. something has happened while running barrels that makes him hate it. its like he is almost scared of the arena really.
Me and my mom actually just had words over the gelding because she thinks we can fix him alone, i think he needs to be sent off. i don't haul enough to barrel races to fix this problem. he needs to be going to different arenas, ropings, only exhib, just walking and i haul maybe twice a month. i know exactly what his problem is but don't have the tools to fix it.
i really like this gelding i don't want to sell him, i can't keep putting more and more money in him though. he's literally breaking me.
I'm thinking maybe i can give him a calmer or some bute just to relax and just let me notice that I'm not trying to hurt him or make him do something he doesn't want to do then slowly ween him off of it?
I'm open to any ideas… |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 762
Location: NC | If he was mine I would do diff things with him for a little. Then slowly re-introduce the pattern. It sounds like hes mentally burnt out. When my gelding started to go, I went to english, sorting, trail riding and just random things. Then slowly went back while keeping things mixed up. It also sounds like he was abused so hes associating the arena with abuse.
A trainer may help or it may screw his mind up more. And yes the more scared you are the more hell tense up. I have a friend who sings to herself in the warm up pen to keep herself calm and its def helped me and my mare. |
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  Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | I fixed a really bad gate sour horse with this method......he was also bad at home, so I started there and worked up to a jackpot....the horse HAS to know that the trailer (barn, or whatever) is NOT the place he wants to be...the trailer or barn means hard work, and the alley is the only place he can "rest"......To accomplish this, you need to retrain his brain (takes about 3 weeks to change a habit) by saddling at the trailer and lope circles around the trailer both ways, do roll backs along the trailer...in other words, make life really tough for him near the trailer or the barn or place where he wants to go to get away from work...and do it until his tongue is hanging out and HE is the one who wants to stop...then trot right on to where you want to go and calmly let him rest and get his breath back...get off of him right there and lead him back to the trailer...never, ever ride this kind of horse to the trailer and get off there and loosen the saddle...his relief should always come in the alley...the horse I had didn't even want to leave the trailer to go to the pasture (this works good on buddy sour horses too), so at home, his only resting place was towards the pasture, and if he turned around and tried to take me back to the trailer or barn, I continued the hard work right there until he wanted to quit again, and then rode him out towards the pasture and let him rest there...it didn't take long for him to see that the trailer/barn was work and the pasture/alley was rest....I transferred this idea to the jackpots and I know people thought I was nuts working my horse so hard right next to my trailer (and I had to park out a ways to do this), but when I headed to the alley to rest (during a drag), he learned really fast that he could rest there, but I had to do it a little at a time and get closer and closer to the arena, then work him hard in the warm up area and then trot to the alley....and you have to pick your battles in places where space allows this, and you have to keep it up to reinforce the lesson, it doesn't fix them for good right away...eventually, within about a month, I could stand at the fence and watch with my friends and walk to the alley when it was my turn to exhibition, and he was very quiet (huge change)...but I have to tell you that this type of horse is volatile and he never became the tough competitor he could have been because his brain never could handle speed...to keep everything from falling apart, I had to keep him throttled at 3D speed, where he was fine, any more and he started losing it...so not all horses will make it anyway, but they deserve the work to make them not dangerous (and the one I had would hurt you and everyone around him to not go to the alley...my advise is sell him and buy something you trust and can have fun on...this horse was no fun, but the work changed him to a dependable horse at least... |
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| the sticky thing is though is its not a problem unless we.re at a barrel race. any other arena, or anywhere i go and its not a barrel race going on he's fine. its like all the lights and music and hectic horses running around makes him scared. i trail ride him, i pony him behind other horses, i long trot, lope circles in the field, in the arena with no barrels, in the arena with the barrels set up, he's hot but not a nut like he is at a barrel race. |
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 The Original Cyber Bartender
Location: Washington | Sell him with full disclosure. |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I couldn't run a horse that hated it's job. If you can't rehab the mental damage the most humane thing to do is to sell him to someone who can or someone who wants to do something else with him. |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Barrelhorsehelp1 - 2014-11-24 1:25 PM the sticky thing is though is its not a problem unless we.re at a barrel race. any other arena, or anywhere i go and its not a barrel race going on he's fine. its like all the lights and music and hectic horses running around makes him scared. i trail ride him, i pony him behind other horses, i long trot, lope circles in the field, in the arena with no barrels, in the arena with the barrels set up, he's hot but not a nut like he is at a barrel race. How have you reacted at the barrel race when he does this?? If you "get after" him what does he do?? He sounds SPOILED ROTTEN to me, and maybe he needs a come to jesus meeting?? I know MANY of you are not going to agree with me, but I am throwing this out there. I'm guessing there is other "spoiled horse" behaviors he's displaying. Does he lead you around, hard to catch, paw, won't stand tied? All those human things we expect out of horses and some of the spoiled ones, don't think they have to.
1. If he's truly just fragile, start with calming meds, I would try vita-calm-you can get it at TSC
2. If he's a spoiled horse, you can try ground work to get his respect. And a lot of hard luck respect time together, do not be a pushover.
In no way should a horse I own go completely uncontrollable across a parking lot without a tiger chasing them (and then it better be a damn big tiger)
No matter how irritated or nervous a horse is, they should still stop their behavior when asked, that is a respect thing and some may never get it. Be very careful, you are walking a thin line.
edited to add that I like Cindy Hamilton's way of thinking, definitely has worked on some of those horses that lack a little "want to"
Edited by LMS 2014-11-24 3:35 PM
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| he is the best most well mannered horse i have ver owned. runs up to you in the pasture to be loved on. loves kids, super gental. will stand tied to a trailer all day long with or without a buddy. sleeps the entire time. people are always like "he doesn't look crazy to me, he's sleeping!" he really is a gentlemen… i mean he even warms up like a pleasure horse. but once you start heading to the arena its a whole different ball game. and i have also thought to myself am i just letting him get away with things when he starts acting up i just get off and hand walk him but i am scared to pop him at what he might do. old owner said when he would act up she would pop him and he would walk right in. (she's lied before so who knows) |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | My suspicion was that you were getting off when he acted up. I'm not sure I would pop him at a race, but I would probably utilize a whip at home, if there is ever a time he acts up a little just shake it at him-I would bet he will tuck tail in a hurry-old owner probably popped him one too many times :) HOWEVER, here's for the contradiction, I have one older horse that needed that pop, so, get yourself some guts and try it AFTER you try the calming on your horse, that is cheap and easy and might be the least invasive and most effective, how will you know if you don't try?
I really think the help of the other lady would be good too, but I wouldn't send the horse without me going with, I'm thinking you could afford to learn as much as the horse needs to learn about this problem he has. |
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| Well hey! if anyone wants him make me an offer! |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | buy a ad then... truthfully.. he needs to be removed from barrels.. hes blown up ,, not much else to say.. he needs removed for now. |
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 Having Smokin Bandits
Posts: 4572
Location: Woodstown, NJ | Sounds a lot like one of my horses. He was only run maybe a dozen times in his life. And we've always done different things with him like trail riding and when we did take him to races, sometimes it was just to walk in and out of the arena. I read all the books! But he developed this gate issue. I think part of it is stage fright. He LOOKS real relaxed and easy-going, sleeping at the trailer too, but he's sensitive. He's what I would call a quiet worrier. Actually, we call him a Jekkyl Hyde. The other thing is, like your horse, I believe he might have had a physical issue going on. So perhaps he was feeling pain and he started associating running with that. But making sure he was pain-free did not fix it. He had it in his head now. And he got worse because we got scared. We got a trainer's help. He whacked him in the neck and the horse walked right in. With me on him, the horse was thinking something must be wrong--SHE'S scared so I should be scared too. He had no confidence in me. A couple of times we tried a little Ace. It worked beautiful; took the edge off. I can't remember how much I gave him but it was a small amount so the timing was tricky. And this is not something you would want to use regularly because it has side affects. I can't tell you whether we would have had long term success because I haven't ridden him regularly. I don't know if I'll ever try barrel racing him again. It just causes me too much anxiety. Which probably causes HIM anxiety....
Get someone's help and see if he does better with a professional. Don't leave him there though if you are having concerns about someone being too rough. Take lessons with the trainer like I did. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | I get a few like this along.Always take then off the barrels.I use them outsde they get a nother job not just ride around A horse needs a job with a goal to complete,Catch a cow,drive one through a gate,They need to be tired and trail riding and such does not do that.They need to feel like they have accoplished something at the end of the day.Not just trained on.A fix only last as long as it takes to put it on.Then cone back to the barrels to rest not run.
Then the hard part starts the rider.They have to be worked with and their cofidence built up.It does not matter if I can ride the horse it does if you can.They feed off of the rider.If your anxious then they will be too.
Lot of horses have been trained to death and not tought a thing.
Find a place that will not just work barrels that I found solves not a lot right now The horse already knows what barrels are and they dont forget.And will spend a good deal of time with you.It is a trainers job not only to work the horse but to build up confidense in both horse and rider.
If I can build you up that transfers over to the horse.Tough one here.Because you both have no confidence or little in each other He knows whats coming next and so do you.You get anxious at the race because of problems.You will hold your breath and get stiff and so will they.
Just some thoughts.
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