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Expert
Posts: 1477
  
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Before I start, he has had his teeth done in the last 6 months by a equine dentist. He has also been check by a chiropractor.
I've got a 4yr old that likes nothing I've put on him except a curved bar Mullen mouth with a short shank but he's hard to stop at a speed faster than a slow trot and he's hard to turn. BUT everything else I've put on him he gaps his mouth open and sticks his nose out. I watch a video on bits that Charon Caldwell has on YouTube and she was taking about every kind of bit. I've never put a correction bit on him because I thought they were sever but according to her there not. According to what she says it sound like he might would benefit from a correction bit. I know there's really no way to know without trying it but I don't want to put it on him and him completely spaz out like he did the first time I pulled on him with my Ed Wright gag bit. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 222
Location: Texas | Not trying to be snarky or mean!!! Hard to stop, hard to turn, sticks his nose out and gaps his mouth and 4 yr old. That to ME ( I mostly start colts for people not put them on the pattern) sounds like he just isn't very broke. is he on the pattern? I would personally go back to what you started him in. Like an O snaffle with a twist. Work on basics again. A lot of times I see people ( not saying you are just my experience) get young horses on a pattern before they are broke enough. Then start having issues and bump bits up until they have a train wreak. Our colts ( I don't have a time line like futurity so I go slower) are broke and ridden on trails checking fence, working cows, hauled and rode around for 6 months to a year before they see the pattern. When they do get on the pattern they will collect WTC basic concept of fly changes bend counter arc etc so the pattern comes easier. Then it's not just the pattern we do basics away from the pattern so they stay fresh. If he's fussy in what he was started in. I have in the past used cavasons German and running martingales side reins draw reins etc. to help a young horse that may have a difficult patch. All of those tools have a place in training but SHOULD NOT be used as a band aid. I went through this with a client a year ago. She was wondering why her pattern was so far behind but refused to do the schooling. Just wanted to run. Then bump bits or use training aids to band aid the problem instead if taking the time to do it correctly. Anyway that's just my two cents again of I'm far off base I apologize. JMO |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | No he's not on the pattern. I tried but it didn't work. |
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Expert
Posts: 1694
Location: Willows, CA | I don't like a correction on a horse with soft bars. You have to have better hands than me to use one without risk of damage on a young horse. |
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Veteran
Posts: 222
Location: Texas | Tried what and it didn't work? The pattern? Snaffle bit? And if it was a differnt bit how long? Personally to me a correction bit is to correct an issue on a finished horse. Not for use with a young horse |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| The Connie Combs Stabilizer Bit is perfect for young horses, it helps them stay focused without being distracted by playing with their bits which helps them listen better. This sounds like it would work for you! http://www.smithbrothers.com/the-connie-combs-stabilizer-7%22-bit--...
Here is what the website says: The Connie Combs Stabilizer 7" Bit is good for hard ground, if you need more control or to keep the pull out of your horse. Practice with this bit until you feel any stiffness or pull then use the draw bit to soften the horse in the poll. Horse's that are not hard to set or control will get a lot of control out of this bit. Shanks: 7" stainless steel Mouth: 5" straight bar “sweet iron" mouthpiece
X37A00U3403&gclid=CNqFpN3IhcMCFapDMgodqxcAoA
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Married2Rodeo - 2015-01-08 5:39 PM
Tried what and it didn't work? The pattern? Snaffle bit? And if it was a differnt bit how long? Personally to me a correction bit is to correct an issue on a finished horse. Not for use with a young horse
The pattern. He hasn't always been like this. It started sorta sudden so that's when I had his teeth done. I went back to a plain O ring twisted wire but he fights it and gaps his mouth open. |
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Veteran
Posts: 222
Location: Texas | Ok I would keep him in the O ring put a cavason on and ride in a German or running martingale whichever you are more comfortable with. Just back track and get the basics back. I would give him a solid week of riding with that bit and see if it helps. Doing circles bends counter arcs leg yields etc. lots of trotting working on all of this. Get your collection lateral and vertical flexion back. I bet he's just having a baby moment and needs a refresher. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| TessBelle - 2015-01-08 9:23 PM
Married2Rodeo - 2015-01-08 5:39 PM
Tried what and it didn't work? The pattern? Snaffle bit? And if it was a differnt bit how long? Personally to me a correction bit is to correct an issue on a finished horse. Not for use with a young horse
The pattern. He hasn't always been like this. It started sorta sudden so that's when I had his teeth done. I went back to a plain O ring twisted wire but he fights it and gaps his mouth open.
If this started when he got his teeth done. I would suspect teeth are an issue.
I would take the horse to a different dentist, as it is a possibility the previous one screwed up and the horse is telling you.
I would also have massage/chiro/acupuncture work on the tank to ensure this is not the problem.
Then I would go back to the basics and work with the horse to accept the bit. |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | This horse needs to learn to give to the bit, try bitting him up in a O ring, he doesn't understand what you want. This will help teach him. If you don't know how, Google has some nice videos, good luck. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Sorry I should have clarified that more. What I ment by what I say was when he started acting like this I thought it was his teeth so I had them done because I had just bought him they had never been done before but doing his teeth didn't fix it. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| TessBelle - 2015-01-08 11:09 PM
Sorry I should have clarified that more. What I ment by what I say was when he started acting like this I thought it was his teeth so I had them done because I had just bought him they had never been done before but doing his teeth didn't fix it.
I would still check out tmj
If the tmj is okay
Then it is a training issue, as others have said, I would go back to the basics with an oring snaffle.
I would look at myler snaffle as I notice my colts are more accepting of their mouthpieces. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | cheryl makofka - 2015-01-08 11:16 PM
TessBelle - 2015-01-08 11:09 PM
Sorry I should have clarified that more. What I ment by what I say was when he started acting like this I thought it was his teeth so I had them done because I had just bought him they had never been done before but doing his teeth didn't fix it.
I would still check out tmj
If the tmj is okay
Then it is a training issue, as others have said, I would go back to the basics with an oring snaffle.
I would look at myler snaffle as I notice my colts are more accepting of their mouthpieces.
Is TMJ what the chiro is checking for when there checking just to the side of each eye towards the jaw bone? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 417
Location: CA | Sooo many misconceptions about the correction mouthpiece. People think it's a harsh bit simply because of the word "correction". It's not. The name only refers to the action of the mouthpiece. It's actually a quite mild bit that's very forgiving, thus why most horses like it. It's commonly used as a step up bit from a snaffle for young horses ready to move on in their training. It promotes more vertical flexion than lateral flexion, so whether or not it's right for you and your horse really depends on what you're looking to get from your horse. Horse and Rider has published some very good articles by Bob Avila about this bit and others, and how they work. Definitely worth the read. |
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Expert
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Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | Grunt - 2015-01-09 12:43 AM
Sooo many misconceptions about the correction mouthpiece. People think it's a harsh bit simply because of the word "correction". It's not. The name only refers to the action of the mouthpiece. It's actually a quite mild bit that's very forgiving, thus why most horses like it. It's commonly used as a step up bit from a snaffle for young horses ready to move on in their training. It promotes more vertical flexion than lateral flexion, so whether or not it's right for you and your horse really depends on what you're looking to get from your horse. Horse and Rider has published some very good articles by Bob Avila about this bit and others, and how they work. Definitely worth the read.
Where can I find these articles online? I know almost nothing about bits. I've always rode them in what ever a trainer or the previous owner told me to ride in. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 417
Location: CA | I'd try Horse and Rider online, but I'll try to look them up tomorrow and link them on here. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | He's going back to a trainer in March because they didn't have any openings until then. I can't let him sit in the pasture that long so I need something to ride him in until then. Here's my opinion on what I think happened. I sent him to be broke because he wasn't broke when I got him and have a cutting horse handle put on him. When I got him back he was so touchy and sensitive that I could barely ride him but he rode great for the trainer. He was being rode in a O ring with a skinny twisted wire snaffle. Well the guy that rode him said he though when I got him back I should move to something else. He didn't say what else so I rode him in the O ring a few weeks and moved him to a Jr Cow horse smooth snaffle. He hated it and pitched a fit. So I went back to the original O ring for a few weeks. Then I tried the O ring I run my gelding in. It's a O,ring with Cs on the inside so that your reins don't slide all the way around with a twisted wire but has a life saver. He ignored that. So that's when I tried my Mullen mouth that my mare rides in. He seemed to love it. He worked great in it for about a month then he started to ignore it. So that's when I tried my Ed Wright gag bit. He spazed out. Now no matter what I use he's not happy except for the Mullen but can't do anything with him in a Mullen. Even fights his original O ring. So I though maybe he just hated a bit so I tried a light hack. Nope.
So somewhere I messed up and messed him up. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| It sounds like you may be too heavy handed.
If he was too sensitive back from the cutter, and now he isn't responding, the common denominator is you.
If you are always hanging on their face they look to escape gaping the mouth evading the bit head high or head low. If this doesn't work their mouth becomes desentized and people have to continue to bit up until the horse can handle every severe bit man has made, then there is nothing to do.
I suggest waiting till he goes to the trainer and while he is there take weekly lessons there to lighten up your hands and ride with your body before the reins. |
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Expert
Posts: 1477
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | I've really started to become more conscious about my hands and to use my feet more but I'm 22 and been riding since I was big enough to be held in a saddle and until the last 2-3 years I never had any profession training. I grew up with cutting/penning horses but after about 8yrs old we had roping horses. About 13 or 14 I decided roping was defiantly not my thing so decided to try barrel racing. So it's hard for me to break habits that I've had for 15+ years but I'm trying. |
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Veteran
Posts: 294
| Does your saddle fit? It sounds like he is hollowing out his back. If he is not in pain anywhere I would use the German Martingale to start with. |
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