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Expert
Posts: 1561
  
| What are the most common signs a horse needs hock injections and what to ask the vet?
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| Depends on the horse. My mare's will sometimes click, mainly she won't use her back end as much, won't push off from the back etc. If you think something is wrong, just take em to your vet and ask for a lameness exam, and tell them what you have been noticing that's off! |
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Expert
Posts: 1409
Location: Oklahoma | one of mine's first sign is he will stand with back legs side by side really close. Sometimes they will run with back legs together. and there is more depends on horse. I am learning to catch earlier and earlier. |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
Let me play devils advocate here... if you have your horse on a good joint program, a clean feed and good exercise routine, then the chances of them needing injections become less common. If you have a horse that is getting sore then there are other things I tend to think about first, like soft tissue/muscle soreness... inflammation, in a joint or anywhere else, is simply a symptom of something more... will an injection help to remove inflammation? Absolutely, but it doesn't address the underlying problem, which is why we have to repeat them. I could write a book on the topic, but I will spare everyone, lol... Just something to think about.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | grinandbareit - 2015-01-10 8:12 AM
Let me play devils advocate here... if you have your horse on a good joint program, a clean feed and good exercise routine, then the chances of them needing injections become less common. If you have a horse that is getting sore then there are other things I tend to think about first, like soft tissue/muscle soreness... inflammation, in a joint or anywhere else, is simply a symptom of something more... will an injection help to remove inflammation? Absolutely, but it doesn't address the underlying problem, which is why we have to repeat them. I could write a book on the topic, but I will spare everyone, lol... Just something to think about.
This is why I recommend radiographs which prove this is an actual joint issue (as opposed to a soft tissue problem).
There is not always an underlying issue beyond the fact that repeated wear and tear (which is common from all disciplines) causes arthritic changes.
That being said, I agree that you need to address any other issues in your program.
Anyway, for the OP, my horse typically will exhibit reluctance to pick up his back feet (for the farrier or when I pick out his feet). He may try to pull his foot away. He also may be short stepping on one side or the other, and he also may looked "hunched up" when he trots out... hard to explain, but he looks stiff overall and doesn't seem to want to let his hind legs extend backwards.
My horse's xrays showed mild changes in the lower hocks, so that is why I inject him as needed (1-2x per year, as he is also maintained with Pentosan).
However, the best answer as to "when you should inject" is when a vet tells you this is the best option after performing a throrough lameness exam and confirming his findings with radiographs and/or blocks. :) |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Were at a loss right now and im basically grasping at this point.
We bought this horse last year that showed TONS of potential but now he seems dull and a shell of what he was.  |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Please define "thorough lameness exam" please.
Edited by Itsme 2015-01-10 8:53 AM
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Itsme - 2015-01-10 8:51 AM Please define "thorough lameness exam" please.
I consider that intial flex testing/watching the horse move, blocks if the vet needs to do them, and radiographs.
I realize you can go even further, such as a lameness locator, bone scan, MRI, and so on, but not every horse is worth the price of these tests.
Sometimes injections can be diagnostic as well as a treatment. For example, my horse showed mild arthritic changes on X-ray in the lower hock, but we opted to inject instead of doing blocks to confirm this was the source of the soreness.
I think too many inject without at least doing Xrays (I think these should be ran if it appears to be a joint or leg issue before injecting). Now again, there are exceptions to this, as there are always those "mystery lameness" horses that break this rule and look normal on Xray but respond to injections. We all know horses never comply to hard and fast rules... there are always exceptions.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest |
Ulcers? Also, have you ran blood? Perhaps EPM? Sometimes it might not be what you think. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Hocks travel closely in the hind legs, stifles they spread apart. They also appear to "bunny hop" when traveling. Don't won't to use their hind end. |
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  Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | grinandbareit - 2015-01-10 9:12 AM Let me play devils advocate here... if you have your horse on a good joint program, a clean feed and good exercise routine, then the chances of them needing injections become less common. If you have a horse that is getting sore then there are other things I tend to think about first, like soft tissue/muscle soreness... inflammation, in a joint or anywhere else, is simply a symptom of something more... will an injection help to remove inflammation? Absolutely, but it doesn't address the underlying problem, which is why we have to repeat them. I could write a book on the topic, but I will spare everyone, lol... Just something to think about.
I disagree to a certain extent. No amount of good feed and supplements will prevent a horses hocks from fusing.
and injecting does reduce inflammation and boost the fluid in joints. maintenance pro and pre are great but your statement is not always correct.. we do need to be proactive and try to maintain muscles and the overall horses condition thru exercise..but somethings will happen and some horses can handle it others not.xrays and lameness exam I agree.. first...
bunny hops
rests legs
ouchy when picked up high
not allot of hindend
legs together |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Thank you for any and all advice,
A quick rundown...
We bought him last Dec and were told he was patterned, which he was and was loving it,he was hot but still loved turning barrels. Then he got to where he would push through the bit and past 1st just at a lope and even sidepass across the arena and refuse to go to first. At the time we thought it was a training issue with a big powerful horse with a not so good foundation, so we sent him to our friend for 2 weeks and she slowed him down then my daughter started him over and worked on basics for 3 or so months. Then over the summer he started not turning any barrels correctly and was off in the rear end so we took him to the vet and he decided the SI needed to be injected, people on here were wondering if the SI was a secondary issue and I do too.
here we are now... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| For what you are describing, I would be looking at hocks and front end soreness possibly in his front feet.
As others have already said I would take the horse to a lamness specialist would flex, block, then X-ray and ultrasound. A lamness locator may be the way to go.
I would also suspect ulcers at this point and would start the 30 day treatment |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| grinandbareit - 2015-01-10 8:12 AM
Let me play devils advocate here... if you have your horse on a good joint program, a clean feed and good exercise routine, then the chances of them needing injections become less common. If you have a horse that is getting sore then there are other things I tend to think about first, like soft tissue/muscle soreness... inflammation, in a joint or anywhere else, is simply a symptom of something more... will an injection help to remove inflammation? Absolutely, but it doesn't address the underlying problem, which is why we have to repeat them. I could write a book on the topic, but I will spare everyone, lol... Just something to think about.
I tend to disagree with your comments stating clean feed etc reduces injections.
Every horse responds to oral joint medication differently and there is no conclusive evidence stating any do what they say. A lot of people say this is a waste of money.
I do agree a farrier will make or break the horse, and if you have a great farrier to begin with there will be less issues total as the horse has not started to compromise yet.
It all depends on how much you use the horse, the hauling, stalling, exercise program, all of this is unnatural and the more hauling and stalling the more your chances increase of lamness issues. Exercise programs there is a therapeutic program which will increase bone density, promote healthy tendons, muscles and ligaments, then there is an excess which will cause a horse to physically break down faster.
Conformation can also increase the odds of having to maintain a horse, a horse with weak stifles may need to be injected before one with strong stifles. There are also theories on long versus short pasterns. Hocks if thy are high and set out behind them the horse has to use more motion to collect and drive around the barrel then a horse who is correct. A horse with a big body and small feet may have more issues then a horse with larger feet as there is less surface area to absorb the impact.
Genetics can also impact the odds game on whether or not you will need to maintain a horse.
Nutrition as a baby. I learned that a malnourished horse before the age of two has increased chance of joint disease then a healthy horse de to not getting essential vitamins, minerals, and amino acids needed for growth and development.
I think opposite of you. If my horses need chiro adjustment, massage, acupuncture, I go to the vet first and find out the cause of the soreness, 9/10 it is joints. Horses start using their body differently if they are experiencing joint pain causing their back to go out of alignment and sore muscles. After my horse has been to the vet and has been given a clean bill of health then I get them adjusted so we are starting on a clean slate. |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Yes, I forgot to include U/s as an xray only shows bone abnormalities, an u/s will identify a soft tissue injury. I also forgot to say that during the exam, the vet will typically examine the feet and use a hoof tester. I had great luck with Purdue University in my area (I know you are in TX, but I bet someone can give a great recommendation for your area).
I would proceed to a lameness specialist if you can. The vet doing the exam and the quality of their equipment make a HUGE difference. Digital Xrays are a big step up from the small portable X-rays that are used by many local vets.
Best of luck. It does sound like something else is going on aside from SI. Sometimes once issue can cause a spiral of problems, and you just have to knock them out one by one... |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Earlier in 2014 put him on the ulcer stuff Gordon sells for a month and he seemed better and less hot at that point. Right now he isnt hot at all just not finishing 1st or pushing out of 2nd and 3rd like we know he can.
Should we scope him for ulcers? I dont really want to put him on stuff if we dont know for sure its a problem like we did the SI injection.
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | At this point, I think I would start with a lameness issue first- based on your description. Especially if the horse is doing something different on the pattern suddenly that it wasn't doing before- that is usually soreness ime. However, I would write out a full history and include the fact that you treated with Ulcercure and when. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Thanks again! 
Good call on the timeline, I (my PIA daughter) really need to keep a weekly log. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Itsme - 2015-01-10 10:33 AM
Earlier in 2014 put him on the ulcer stuff Gordon sells for a month and he seemed better and less hot at that point. Right now he isnt hot at all just not finishing 1st or pushing out of 2nd and 3rd like we know he can.
Should we scope him for ulcers? I dont really want to put him on stuff if we dont know for sure its a problem like we did the SI injection.
You can scope.
My philosophy is it costs just a bit more to treat for the 30-60 days as it does to scope. Also scoping cannot diagnose hind gut ulcers, and the scope is only as good as the operator, not all scopes are created equal.
I also believe that any horse in pain is at risk and probably already has ulcers due to the cycle of pain.
Especially if the horses had to continue to work while in pain his odds are significantly increased he will be suffering from ulcers.
This is something you can discuss with your vet and decide if you want to spend the money and scope or just treat.
I have read that it takes less then 3 days for ulcers to return |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 302
Location: W. Pa. | If you have had a horse x-rayed and they show hock joint to be bone on bone, with spurs, can they be injected and will it help with lameness? |
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