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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
 
| My SO and I have a choice to make, stay with my dad's family farm or buy his dad's farm and start our own...
My dad has a very established grain farm and there is the opportunity for us to buy in and help out and help him grow, we would have to establish our own yard on one of his yard sights. My brother is also going to be around to help as well. and he also has hired hands.
we also have the opportunity to purchase his dad's home section and yard, and other quarters, as well as have some grandfathered into our names. they had pmu up till this last winter, and they were cut, they are also at retiring age so that is what they are doing. his brothers are not interested in the farm.
our hearts are more set on cattle, and tho we are young we have bought 70 head so far. our hearts are leaning more towards buying his dad's place, all the corrals and yard and pasture is already set up, we just need to buy more cattle. the corrals could hold up to 1200 head and we would have enough pasture and hay for 300 pairs.
My SO is a welder and i am a sales agronomist. if we were to fail we would loose it all at his dads, but my dad's farm is too well established failing isnt much of an option. and obviously my horses are always staying with me!!
so my question is, has anyone started there own farm from scratch? grain or cattle, even horses??
our hearts are in the cattle, both of our parents have cattle, but we want to make it our farms income solely.
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
 
| It's going to be very hard to get established starting from scratch, especially with cattle and horses(horses will be even harder than cattle). But with that said, farm and ranch land are hard to come by and if you have the opportunity to get good quality land and be grandfathered in on some I wouldn't hesitate to jump on it. |
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I'd stick with your dads farm. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| FlyingJT - 2015-01-12 10:47 AM
It's going to be very hard to get established starting from scratch, especially with cattle and horses(horses will be even harder than cattle). But with that said, farm and ranch land are hard to come by and if you have the opportunity to get good quality land and be grandfathered in on some I wouldn't hesitate to jump on it.
I forgot to add that my horses will always just be my hobby, and used on the ranch.
And we wont be buying it all at once, and the price of cattle right now makes it so hard to grow our herd.
His parents land is all cattle country land. The hay is very great quality. The yard is all set up, just need to make our payments and add to our herd.
My dads area of land is too nice to be left for pasture and hay, we keep his cattle in the valley's and hay the low spots that is to wet to get seed in the spring.
we would just build a yard for ourselves and to have more bin storage and enough to have my horses (he is the biggest supporter of my horses lol he tolerates)
our hearts are in the cattle, but we also love the grain side of things! |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | It's extremely difficult to start from scratch, but not impossible if you make smart decisions and manage things well. Still, the ones I know who pretty much started from nothing did have some family land and financial backing to help.
I totally rode my dad's coat-tails for several years and we still farm together to make it work. Mine and hubby's farm is financially separate, but we farm all our land together as a whole. We have our own hired hands, but they work where they are needed, we have some of our own equipment, some is owned jointly, and we pay rent on the rest. The economy of scale works better with all of it together--costs are spread out and we have better purchasing power for inputs, but the risk and reward is still squarely on us.
something to consider is the family dynamic you will have: who's in charge, who makes decisions, and will that sit with you and your husband? Will you be happier with less risk but less control or do you want to be soley responsible? We are row crops only, cattle aren't really a thing here, but it sounds like your wants on that score will be a major factor. The market is great now for cattle, sucky for grains...what will you do when that cycles around the other way? |
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | What if any stock and machinery is included in the purchase of FIL's land? As a sales agronomist you know what the markets are heading towards and it will be tougher to make a go with 3 families making a living off of 1 farm. It can be done but it will be tough. I would seriously look at buying your FIL's place if that is what you are leaning towards. Your in-laws will help but also make sure that EVERYTHING IS WRITTEN DOWN. Mainly so your BIL doesn't come back in the event of your in-laws deaths and try to sue for more $$ or whatever. It can and does happen. I would urge at least one of you to keep your job just for benefits and if something does happen you have something to fall back on. |
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | One other thing...how far apart are your in-laws land and your family land? Is there some way you could combine or run your dads cattle or something that way? Just a thought...if your brother wants to row crop and you handle the cattle that would be a compromise of sorts. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 448
Location: lone star state | What a fantastic opportunity! Something to keep in mind are cattle prices today. It certainly is a good time to be selling however it may not be the time to buy. We could be getting ready for a market correction in 2015. Oil certainly affects cattle prices and as consumers seem to be making other protein choices at the meat counter demand for beef is lower today than even one year ago. Speak with market experts. Watch the futures as they have been lower recently. You certainly don't want to set yourself up for failure by purchasing at market peak and prices tumbling making starting out even more challenging. Also as oil prices fall the cost of steel will likely follow as demand goes down allowing you to build barns and pens cheaper. Good luck. What an opportunity you have in front of you! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-01-12 11:05 AM
 It's extremely difficult to start from scratch, but not impossible if you make smart decisions and manage things well.  Still, the ones I know who pretty much started from nothing did have some family land and financial backing to help.
I totally rode my dad's coat-tails for several years and we still farm together to make it work. Â Mine and hubby's farm is financially separate, but we farm all our land together as a whole. Â We have our own hired hands, but they work where they are needed, we have some of our own equipment, some is owned jointly, and we pay rent on the rest. Â The economy of scale works better with all of it together--costs are spread out and we have better purchasing power for inputs, but the risk and reward is still squarely on us.
something to consider is the family dynamic you will have: Â who's in charge, who makes decisions, and will that sit with you and your husband? Â Will you be happier with less risk but less control or do you want to be soley responsible? Â We are row crops only, cattle aren't really a thing here, but it sounds like your wants on that score will be a major factor. The market is great now for cattle, sucky for grains...what will you do when that cycles around the other way?
we both know its going to be hard starting on our own, I'm terrified of failing to be honest. he is very supportive saying he will make it!
we wouldn't buy the land in a lump sum, and equipment will be ours to use till we purchase newer. so we would have that help!
as for my dad's, he will make most decisions, and what we buy will be ours and will farm it all together.
he makes alot of money where with his own welding business, so that will not be something he will give up, just take some time off to help with either calving/haying or seeding/harvest
if we were to take my dads option there is a mine 10 mins away and they are a great career job later on! pay and benefits are great and he is home every night!
control is something we are on not to concerned about, my dad is very smart about all of his decisions, we already discuss together what he will seed and spray.
my dad and I can butt heads sometimes, but so do my so and I! lol my younger brother is also very involved in the family farm, ideally he wants to keep it in the family name.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| docschic - 2015-01-12 11:11 AM
One other thing...how far apart are your in-laws land and your family land? Is there some way you could combine or run your dads cattle or something that way? Just a thought...if your brother wants to row crop and you handle the cattle that would be a compromise of sorts. Â
hour and half apart!
our hearts are very much set on cattle. but we want to make the smartest financial decision!
without a doubt he will always keep his job! He makes his own hours, but he is on the road alot!
Before my dad made the grain farm a priority we where very large in cattle, showed alot of purebreds, now its his hobby.
I am very comfortable doing it by myself. FIL is moving just down the road so I will have all of his help while my so is on the road!
Edited by zansbeunogal_2268 2015-01-12 11:30 AM
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | As someone who married into my husbands families land (we farm & ranch with his parents) I'd encourage you to buy his dad's land and do your own thing. We live on the same place as my inlaws & work together. It's HARD, not necessarily financially, but family working & basically living together is not even remotely close to easy. My husband is frequently put in a crappy position between me & his parents and then that casues problems between us. It certainly won't be easy to buy a place and build a cow herd with current cattle prices, since it'll be dang hard to afford buying a lot of cattle, but that is definately the option I would look the most strongly at. |
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 Dog Resuce Agent
Posts: 3459
Location: southeast Texas | Are y'all married? At one point you talk about SO and then FIL.
If not, stay with your family farm.
Edited by roxieannie 2015-01-12 11:37 AM
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | id go with the cows..................
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | SaraJean - 2015-01-12 11:31 AM As someone who married into my husbands families land (we farm & ranch with his parents) I'd encourage you to buy his dad's land and do your own thing. We live on the same place as my inlaws & work together. It's HARD, not necessarily financially, but family working & basically living together is not even remotely close to easy. My husband is frequently put in a crappy position between me & his parents and then that casues problems between us. It certainly won't be easy to buy a place and build a cow herd with current cattle prices, since it'll be dang hard to afford buying a lot of cattle, but that is definately the option I would look the most strongly at.
Best thing we did was buy our own land a few miles away to build our house. Living across the road from my parents never bothered me, but Wes sure didn't care for it. I have to admit, the privacy is awesome. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| we are very excited about both opportunities we have! we are fortunate enough to have them as some people dont!
We are young (im 24 and he is 25). we have discussed the fact of if we do go bankrupt, we are young enough to have a chance at starting again!
both of our parents are very supportive and not pushing us to a decision, obviously they both want us close to them, but they also encourage us go with our hearts or be established
we are not married yet, we are waiting till we are settled. we have been living together for the past 5 years.
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Three 4 Luck - 2015-01-12 10:37 AM SaraJean - 2015-01-12 11:31 AM As someone who married into my husbands families land (we farm & ranch with his parents) I'd encourage you to buy his dad's land and do your own thing. We live on the same place as my inlaws & work together. It's HARD, not necessarily financially, but family working & basically living together is not even remotely close to easy. My husband is frequently put in a crappy position between me & his parents and then that casues problems between us. It certainly won't be easy to buy a place and build a cow herd with current cattle prices, since it'll be dang hard to afford buying a lot of cattle, but that is definately the option I would look the most strongly at. Best thing we did was buy our own land a few miles away to build our house. Living across the road from my parents never bothered me, but Wes sure didn't care for it. I have to admit, the privacy is awesome.
Ohhhh how I'd love to do that!!! Can't talk hubby into it though.......Everything I do is watched & it drives me insane.
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Expert
Posts: 1314
Location: North Central Iowa Land of white frozen grass | I would do the cattle thing. Your dads operation would always be your fall back. I lived on 2 of my uncles farms most of my life and I can tell you there is nothing like owning your own farm even if you make less money. I have no regrets farming the way I did but you still are not in control. I am 58 years old and I look back at other kids that I graduated with that struck out on their own either as a farm operation or a business in town they are a lot better off than the ones that tried to ride the coat tails of their parents or inlaws. I have a lot of friends that are nothing more than hired men for their parents and are 50 something years old and still waiting for them to retire and sell them the business. I told them they are never going to retire as long as you are there to do all the work. You need to build your equity when you are young with all your hard labor. I farmed and ran 100 head of stock cows for most of my life but I also worked in town the whole time. My parents and my uncles always kept telling me that I would have the chance to buy all the operations when they retired. Every time I would ask them to sell to me they started telling me that they could not afford to pay all the taxes if they sold it to me so they would have to let their kids inherit it. Well guess what happened when the kids inherited the property. They sold everything as fast as they could. Look what the value of land and buildings have done in the last 15 years. You need to buy property when you are young and ride the valuations up through the years to gain wealth. I have a very good job in town managing a fertilizer plant and grain elevator so I am not bitter the way it has turned out. All I am saying is to go out on your own and control your own destiny.
Edited by BS Hauler 2015-01-12 12:44 PM
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | SaraJean - 2015-01-12 10:31 AM As someone who married into my husbands families land (we farm & ranch with his parents) I'd encourage you to buy his dad's land and do your own thing. We live on the same place as my inlaws & work together. It's HARD, not necessarily financially, but family working & basically living together is not even remotely close to easy. My husband is frequently put in a crappy position between me & his parents and then that casues problems between us. It certainly won't be easy to buy a place and build a cow herd with current cattle prices, since it'll be dang hard to afford buying a lot of cattle, but that is definately the option I would look the most strongly at.
This this and THIS!! We did the same, are watching the place fall apart around us, but his dad is not ready to back out and let us lease, but his heart is no longer in it. He makes all the decisions, but is at an age where he can't do the work. My husband refuses to be a free hired hand. It is all a matter of pride if you want my opinion for the FIL. So my husband busts his butt elsewhere to make a living. We would have been ahead to just buy a small place and at least be able to call it our own.
The good of living here, is we have had a great place to raise our small boys. They are wild heathens at their best, so the ranch suits them. We can do what we please as far as horses go, and have a decent herd of cattle. So when $hit hits the fan, and it will someday when the sister in law gets involved. We can sell our cattle and get a place of our own, but not have the lifestyle we so love (and I don't mean money, as ranching is purly a love of the lifestyle). |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 387
| Thank you so much for all of your inputs!!
My dad's dad died when he was 16 and the oldest of 7 brothers he took over the farm, 2 of the brothers were involved and the fights started it was nasty and ended in a big blowout and split, my dad bought everything and grown into a very large farm!
one of the concerns we all have is fighting, we love each other too much to have any resentment towards each other! and we all know my dad will never retire, the farm is his life.
his dad wants to see us keep the family farm alive, he bought it from his dad when they were young. he has more than enough lane we will ever need. they owned a large pmu, 300 horses running around and farm land. If we happened to decide not to take it, the colony will buy, because they are buying everything else! his dad knows its going to be hard and doesn't want to see us fail so he wants to help us where he can!
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Sideways Riding Expert
Posts: 11371
Location: ND--it snows, it floods, it snows, it floods | I think you answered yourself in the last post. Good luck either way though! As someone who has had to sit and watch her parents fight for the land they live due to family (my parents bought the farm from my dads dad and when Grandpa passed away two of the siblings sued my dad....it's not pretty to say the least) I would go whichever way it allows you to enjoy life and raise your family in the lifestyle you want. I do suggest however that you guys get married if you are going to sign stuff together. |
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