runner - 2015-01-14 10:36 AM One simple way if we think one may have it is to have a helper lead the horse away...take hold of his tail while he is walking and put sideways.  If he staggers and you about put him over there is a pretty good chance you got EPM.  If he resists and doesn't stagger...well maybe not.  We have also crossed a hind leg over the other hand leg and if he just stands there...uh oh.  Not very scientific but doesn't hurt to try these things.  Not all can fire away...:).

 

Murphy - 2015-01-14 9:39 AM I've had two horses with EPM and neither one had issues with balance or staggering. There are so many symptoms of EPM.



From my post, I am going to take advice from the gals and send a sample to pathogenes.com.  

Longneck - 2015-01-14 10:45 AM Just curious.. what were your symptoms?   

Murphy - 2015-01-14 9:46 AM My first one had serious muscle atrophy in her rear.



Second one gradually got more and more spooky/flighty. It was a personality change for her. 

lindseylou2290 - 2015-01-14 10:00 AM What is the average cost for one of these blood tests where ya'll are?



Just curious! TIA! 

lindseylou2290 - 2015-01-14 9:00 AM What is the average cost for one of these blood tests where ya'll are?



Just curious! TIA! 

BBrewster - 2015-01-14 8:46 AM Many things to watch for... some are as simple as being stiff or seeming off/lame... others can be like stroke patients - generally one sided.. usually a droopy lip or ear.. dragging a foot or walking funny (as in staggering gate or lifting one foot higher than another for no reason)... one thing i do is if they are free in their stall ad standing still eating or something - i stand to the side of their hip and pull on tail and if they can hold their balance and stand firm/tighten up they are good.. have to do it to both sides.. if they fall over or cross their hind feet to keep their balance that is a bad sign.. there is a yahoo group for EPM.. i have been a member on it since one of my horses got it.. great group and constantly learning new things.. if you suspect EPM definitely have the vet run blood.. i would also have them draw for pathogenes too and send it there while the vet is out.. would suggest bumping up vitamin E - most feeds do not offer anywhere near what is suggested for EPM you'll want to get them 5k-10k IU's.. if you are feeding green leafy alfalfa you may be making some of this up though already as its rich in vitamin e.. prayers for ya... after having gone through that with one i dont wish it on my worst enemy. The earlier you catch it though the better. The longer they fight it the more dmg it does. and some of that dmg can be irreversible. The vet is going to test titers - in the blood for the antibodies for the protozoa that causes the EPM - basically to see if they are high it means their antibodies for it are up and they may be fighting an active infection.. if they are low it may just be an exposure but not necessarily a full on infection... reason being is most horses are exposed to the protozoa that causes EPM at some pt - but for one reason or another most horses can fend it off.. then something happens.. the horse gets injured or stressed and their immune system is compromised and then at that pt if they are infected w/the protozoa or it is live in their gut it can pass what is call the blood/brain barrier.. meaning the protozoa travels from the intestines/gut to their blood system and then fromm there crosses from blood/vascular system into their spinal fluid and to the brain.. this is when you see neuro signs of EPM.. they dont fully understand the reason for that cross yet there is a lot of speculation some say that using wormers like ivermec which can help facilitate a blood/brain barrier cross can cause it and so they wont ever use ivermec.. others blame vaccines and wont vaccinate.. My mare that got it - either got it while being bred and the stress of travel to the stallion farm etc.. or she had been kicked while she was there causing a break in her split bone - which we ended up having to have surgery on - shortly after the surgery and healing time she showed neuro signs and then was positive for full blown EPM... so she had stress and an injury.. thereby a compromised immune system... There are a lot of options for treating.. let me tell you i've done most of them.. i've used Marquis for 2 months with some improvement maybe 50%... i've used the sulfa-trimethoprim combo for 4 months- with some improvement... by far the best thing in my opinion.. and for what worked for the protozoa i was dealing with.. was the Oroquin 10 or now i think they call it Orogin.. its a combo drug pathogenes created with their research w/dr. Ellison.. it worked for me.. worked for a friend of mine's barrel horse as well.. its also probably one of the cheaper treatments out there.. which i think causes a lot of people to shy away from it - but it really does work. I would start w/that one before any of the others if i ran into EPM again. Even if your horse doesn't test "positive" for an active infection - Dr. Ellison may have an alternative therapy if you horse is showing some neuro signs and has been exposed to the protozoa.. the great thing about their treatments were that they were not harmful chemicals.. levamisole is used for cancer patients to boost immune systems.. and Decoquinate the other ingredient only targets parasitic protozoa. http://pathogenes.com/wp/product/orogin/ is website.. and just FYI i am in no way a paid person for them or work for them.. i am just a satisfied customer and know many that are as well..

barrelracingchick16 - 2015-01-14 9:31 AM    Blood tests will only tell you if the horse has been exposed to EPM, this is where a lot of people get misinformed diagnoses from.  Most horses, especially if you are in an EPM prevalent area will be exposed to it at some point in their lives and develop antibodies to it (which is what those blood tests look for). 

       The only true way to definitively diagnose a horse with EPM is through a CSF tap---A positive CSF tap means the organism has been in the cerebrospinal fluid that circulates through the neurologic tract and thus is likely the cause for the neurologic signs you see.

         EPM has most definitely been overdiagnosed, especially these past couple of years.  In all reality for all the horses that are diagnosed solely off of bloodwork it is very likely that over half or more don't even have the disease.  Now, is it going to hurt the horse to go ahead and treat anyways?  That is a whole other discussion. It probably will not hurt anything other than the owners wallet, but resistance issues always come into play.

          Long story short, if you are wanting the gold standard in finding out whether or not your horse truly has EPM, a CSF tap is the way to go.  Of course there are risks associated with a CSF tap so it's always a game of weighing risks and benefits.  But always remember- blood work in no way will definitively tell you a horse has EPM---it just discloses exposure.







 

wyoming barrel racer - 2015-01-14 10:29 AM The reason I suspected mine had it (pathogenes think it is an internal infection-viral, bacteria etc and not EPM) but the reason I suspected it is because he drags hind toes, that was a first sign. He did have muscle atrophy when he came back from the  trainer, but now I think that was something else as he put the weight right back on within 10 days of being on good feed. He also stands strange. Hind leg cocked and front foot forward. He seems short strided, but not lame. He is more and more nervous, will hardly stand to eat his grain. Walks to the door and looks outside in a panic. He passed all the major EPM tests-tail pull, walking sideways on a sloped hill, backing with his head up. He keeps his legs under him balanced just fine.



I've mentioned it a few times on here now, but we (per pathogenes.com) are treating him now with NeurQuel ($68) for 14 days to see if he shows improvment. If he does, it will most likely mean his symptoms were caused by an internal infection that has been causing inflammation and going on since last April. Much better than EPM. If he doesn't get better, I'll do the EPM meds and go from there. My horses issues and the EPM symptoms are often similar. So sometimes you can get lucky and it really isn't EPM at all. 

BBrewster - 2015-01-14 9:46 AM Many things to watch for... some are as simple as being stiff or seeming off/lame... others can be like stroke patients - generally one sided.. usually a droopy lip or ear.. dragging a foot or walking funny (as in staggering gate or lifting one foot higher than another for no reason)... one thing i do is if they are free in their stall ad standing still eating or something - i stand to the side of their hip and pull on tail and if they can hold their balance and stand firm/tighten up they are good.. have to do it to both sides.. if they fall over or cross their hind feet to keep their balance that is a bad sign.. there is a yahoo group for EPM.. i have been a member on it since one of my horses got it.. great group and constantly learning new things.. if you suspect EPM definitely have the vet run blood.. i would also have them draw for pathogenes too and send it there while the vet is out.. would suggest bumping up vitamin E - most feeds do not offer anywhere near what is suggested for EPM you'll want to get them 5k-10k IU's.. if you are feeding green leafy alfalfa you may be making some of this up though already as its rich in vitamin e.. prayers for ya... after having gone through that with one i dont wish it on my worst enemy. The earlier you catch it though the better. The longer they fight it the more dmg it does. and some of that dmg can be irreversible. The vet is going to test titers - in the blood for the antibodies for the protozoa that causes the EPM - basically to see if they are high it means their antibodies for it are up and they may be fighting an active infection.. if they are low it may just be an exposure but not necessarily a full on infection... reason being is most horses are exposed to the protozoa that causes EPM at some pt - but for one reason or another most horses can fend it off.. then something happens.. the horse gets injured or stressed and their immune system is compromised and then at that pt if they are infected w/the protozoa or it is live in their gut it can pass what is call the blood/brain barrier.. meaning the protozoa travels from the intestines/gut to their blood system and then fromm there crosses from blood/vascular system into their spinal fluid and to the brain.. this is when you see neuro signs of EPM.. they dont fully understand the reason for that cross yet there is a lot of speculation some say that using wormers like ivermec which can help facilitate a blood/brain barrier cross can cause it and so they wont ever use ivermec.. others blame vaccines and wont vaccinate.. My mare that got it - either got it while being bred and the stress of travel to the stallion farm etc.. or she had been kicked while she was there causing a break in her split bone - which we ended up having to have surgery on - shortly after the surgery and healing time she showed neuro signs and then was positive for full blown EPM... so she had stress and an injury.. thereby a compromised immune system... There are a lot of options for treating.. let me tell you i've done most of them.. i've used Marquis for 2 months with some improvement maybe 50%... i've used the sulfa-trimethoprim combo for 4 months- with some improvement... by far the best thing in my opinion.. and for what worked for the protozoa i was dealing with.. was the Oroquin 10 or now i think they call it Orogin.. its a combo drug pathogenes created with their research w/dr. Ellison.. it worked for me.. worked for a friend of mine's barrel horse as well.. its also probably one of the cheaper treatments out there.. which i think causes a lot of people to shy away from it - but it really does work. I would start w/that one before any of the others if i ran into EPM again. Even if your horse doesn't test "positive" for an active infection - Dr. Ellison may have an alternative therapy if you horse is showing some neuro signs and has been exposed to the protozoa.. the great thing about their treatments were that they were not harmful chemicals.. levamisole is used for cancer patients to boost immune systems.. and Decoquinate the other ingredient only targets parasitic protozoa. http://pathogenes.com/wp/product/orogin/ is website.. and just FYI i am in no way a paid person for them or work for them.. i am just a satisfied customer and know many that are as well..

joplin21 - 2015-01-14 1:58 PM I have a mare who I just tested, waiting to hear back. One thing I noticed that I have not heard people mention, was that suddenly she developed a spot in her eye, looking like moon blindness. I had my vet check it out when he drew blood and he was concerned. She's getting drops now, but he suggested it might not be related. Has anyone had vision being an issue involving EPM?