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  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
   
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Maybe this has to do with the region that I grew up in, I'm not sure....
When I was growing up, my parents weren't horse people and they bought me a pony that had my number. I got thrown or drug off on just about a daily basis -- have the permanent scar on my face that required 12 stitches as a reminder! I didn't have the advantage of lessons or a new horse-- I just got out there and rode and eventually figured it out.
Around here, I've heard countless childhood tales of kids being thrown and then being told, "Get back on." They did. It was expected that you did.
One of the best riders I know had some of the worst wrecks I've ever seen and rode some of the worst horses. His parents never went out and got him another horse. He got back out there and figured how to stay on the horse and work with it..... which is EXACTLY why he rides as well as any rider in the country.
I've read a lot of articles about momentual horsemen of all disciplines that got their start getting thrown off some very rank horses and they got back on and they worked until they figured it out. They worked with what they had.
Look at Martha Josey, June Holeman and others that didn't have a glamourous start either.
The common thread is that is that they didn't have lessons, they didn't have best horses - in fact they had dangerous horses - they didn't have the best tack. They just made do with what they had and they kept working at it until they got better. If you look back at the depression and the early years, that's what EVERYONE did. People were tough back then.
It seems like we've lost that..... Your horse acts up? The advice right off the bat is to sell and get another one...instead of working on your horsemanship.
I can't ride in this saddle.... The advice right off the bat is go buy a different saddle... instead of working on developing better balance and a better seat.
I'm not winning the 1D.... Go buy a made horse that's faster.... instead of working harder on the one you have.
Hard times makes for good lessons and in the end, better horseman. It's tough horses & difficult rides that makes us learn and builds toughness. If we're so easy to sell out, what are we really going to learn and what kind of discipline are we going to have? Sometimes it's more about the journey than the end result. Sometimes I think we forget about that.
Has anyone else bit the bullet and just worked with what they had and felt like they were better off for it in other ways as well?
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 Queen Boobie 2
Posts: 7521
| You make good points.
I grew up in a family of 5 kids with a dad who day worked, shod horses and rode colts.
We rode what we had. And a lot of times we rode the gentler colts after Dad figured they wouldn't kill us.
We had some nice horses and some not as nice horses. But we learned and adapted.
To tell the truth there probably weren't too many days someone didn't get bucked off at our house ;)
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Excellent points.. The best riders got that way by learning to overcome the challenges presented by rank horses. | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| You made very good points, with exception to the horse not being 1d. Not all horses are 1d horses, this does take time to figure it out if a horse has 1d potential or not, it is like saying a stock ford focus can outrun a Ferrari.
Other things have changed since the dark ages. My cousins and I are still wondering how we managed to stay alive.
I trained my first pony when I was 8, at the age of 10 bought my first started 2 yr old who actually bucked when the guy saddled him and bucked with the guy, no parent in their right mind should have placed a kid on that horse, mine did and it worked out, we clicked immediately.
The above if social services were as involved as they are now, I would have been in foster care, 90% of the time my mom had no idea where I was, it never worried her, as my horse would always bring me home. I could write a book on all the close calls I had.
Back then I know that the rank horses went to the bucking arena or for dog food, the same existed back then as it does today, now there are more people with horses, therefore there will be more bad apples, especially with how horses are treated today
I also don't believe in reinventing the wheel, why should people struggle without the proper tools to do the job?
Why should people struggle to learn how to do an event when they can learn the proper way without screwing up a ton of horses.
You also forget that horses are not the same, we are breeding for specific traits depending on what we do, in barrels we have more athletic, and faster horses then we did back then (saying in general I know there are exceptions to every rule).
Now people cannot afford to only ranch or farm, therefore horses are not being rode 7 days a week 5 days on the ranch branding, treating, chasing, then competition on the weekend, there are a few that do this, and these horses are the versatile ones who are broke. Now people have jobs and cannot dedicate as much time to a rank horse.
Also we weren't boxing up horses like we do now, horses were out on the ranch, we would whistle they would all come running for their grain and to be saddled. Boxing up a horse can turn a hot horse into dynamite
I am glad we have had the forefathers, and fathers who have made training easier for me.
Where would we be without Ray Hunt, Pat Parrelli, Monty Roberts, John Lyons, Bob Avila.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | lot more going on now and alot more training aids that people that dont know how to use properly can really screw up a horse..
I think I agree with you to a certain extent.. but ... times have changed and some want fast results and use tools without knowing how.. and in my opinion would be better off with a horse that knows the ropes and not so difficult.. some riders just have the feel to fix and some dont.. yes they learn how to as they go.. we all learn from mistakes and learn to become better horseman.. but with tools come danger.. and if they have no clue and put on a rank horse... well it can be tragic.. Better to allow trainers or someone that knows how to help.. imho.. | |
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 Texas Tenderheart
Posts: 6715
Location: Red Raiderland | FW, I agree with you to a degree on this subject but I think nowadays there is an advantage of the "Interweb". As we have on here, there is a lot more information for young people to pull from and learn from such as videos and other social media.
My sister's best friend was killed on a horse that reared up, she came off and her head hit the base of a post. I believe she was killed instantly, although they kept her on life support for a day or so. A very sad situation. We were just teens when this happened and it has been 30+ years(yep I'm old ) and there are times I see someone, usually a kid, at a jackpot putting up with nonsense from a horse-USUALLY REARING and I hope that they won't be seriosly hurt or killed. We had some pretty good horses growing up but I do remember a couple(Cricket- I'm thinking of you!) that were down right dangerous and I did not have the strength or the knowledge to handle them and I'm glad my parents put the kibosh on riding such tools. We already did stupid stuff on the sane ones and they would teach us lessons but not paralyze us or kill us. just my 2 cents
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Location: In my own little world | Money is more available now so therefore things are readily disposable. We have become a throwaway society. We don't have to make things work. We just dump it for something different. When I was young that wasn't the case. The one horse you had made due for everything from the ranch horse to the 4-H and open show horse to the barrel horse, rope horse and everything else you needed it for. Only the Dr's and Lawyer's kids had the luxury of having more than one horse to compete in different events on.
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| original post should get 100 likes! | |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| I have been riding since I was three years old. I grew up on a ranch. Our horses were the horses that we worked cows on. They were all gentle. Our stallion produced horses that had good dispositions. As soon as I was old enough to read, I my dad bought me a book called The Schooling of The Western Horse. I still have a copy of it today. I trained all of my barrel horses and have done exceptionally well with them. I met Martha Josey when I was 14 years old---long before she was a Josey. Martha grew up with horses. Ty Mitchell did not grow up with a horse family but his dad aged to get Ty and his sister into barrel racing. I remember when they were kids how hard they were to beat---they learned fast. The point I am making here is educate yourself. You never stop learning. Watch the people who are winning, learn from them. Go to a clinic. Invest in yourself. I am nearly 65. I still don't know everything. If I see a book on horse care or training, I buy it. Today there are many good videos on various training, too.
By the way, I still ride gentle horses today. They don't stay around here if they are not.
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| I agree with you to a certain extent, I also think this thread is going to turn into a giant horn blowing session.
However, I feel that with today's free educational tools on the internet regarding horse care, phenomenal clinicians, 4-H programs, super nice, gentle horses available at killer prices, good working tack available at a steal from Ebay, and excellent horsemen/women in local communities available for economical, if not free lessons, there is NO excuse to continue with the "ugly, nasty horse" trend where children, youngsters, and beginners are concerned.
Those riders listed in the OP might all agree that they also had to strive to overcome the bad habits that they had ingrained in them at a young age.
I personally believe in handling the caliber that you're suited to, and going through the ranks of horses accordingly.
The principles of "don't quit" are a lot more efficient when you've got good stock under you. Check out the young riders making a storm now, Adeline, Chayni, and Jackie Ganter. Sure, I'm sure they've been challenged, but they've also been taught properly.
I think our industry needs more education as a whole, not less. | |
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 Playing the Waiting Game
Posts: 2304
| Remember tho back then there wasn't a judgement getting filed for every scrape that happened either. You didn't sue somebody because thier horse tossed you and broke your arm. Also horses where I lived were not as available we had to ride what we was at the house.
Mom boarded horses to keep us 8 kids out of trouble. The agreement was we were able to ride some of the boarded horses in exchange for part of board. Eventually we did get our own horses. Our first pony taught everyone in the house and every kid in town how to ride. If you didn't get back on when he bucked you off "HE won" and you didn't get to go riding. We didn't worry that someones PARENTS were going to show up with a lawyer and sue us because "little billy" needed stitches. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| classicpotatochip - 2015-03-14 8:38 AM I agree with you to a certain extent, I also think this thread is going to turn into a giant horn blowing session. However, I feel that with today's free educational tools on the internet regarding horse care, phenomenal clinicians, 4-H programs, super nice, gentle horses available at killer prices, good working tack available at a steal from Ebay, and excellent horsemen/women in local communities available for economical, if not free lessons, there is NO excuse to continue with the "ugly, nasty horse" trend where children, youngsters, and beginners are concerned. Those riders listed in the OP might all agree that they also had to strive to overcome the bad habits that they had ingrained in them at a young age. I personally believe in handling the caliber that you're suited to, and going through the ranks of horses accordingly. The principles of "don't quit" are a lot more efficient when you've got good stock under you. Check out the young riders making a storm now, Adeline, Chayni, and Jackie Ganter. Sure, I'm sure they've been challenged, but they've also been taught properly. I think our industry needs more education as a whole, not less. Ditto, well said. With so many resources available while not use them?? Working with a trainer was the best money we spent. I don't consider it a shortcut but as a smart decision to learn from one of the best hands out there, I bet Marha Josey doesn't agree with the school of hard knocks being the better way, she makes her living now selling horses and giving clinics.
Edited by rodeomom3 2015-03-14 9:35 AM
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7543
| rodeomom3 - 2015-03-14 10:16 AM
classicpotatochip - 2015-03-14 8:38 AM I agree with you to a certain extent, I also think this thread is going to turn into a giant horn blowing session. However, I feel that with today's free educational tools on the internet regarding horse care, phenomenal clinicians, 4-H programs, super nice, gentle horses available at killer prices, good working tack available at a steal from Ebay, and excellent horsemen/women in local communities available for economical, if not free lessons, there is NO excuse to continue with the "ugly, nasty horse" trend where children, youngsters, and beginners are concerned. Those riders listed in the OP might all agree that they also had to strive to overcome the bad habits that they had ingrained in them at a young age. I personally believe in handling the caliber that you're suited to, and going through the ranks of horses accordingly. The principles of "don't quit" are a lot more efficient when you've got good stock under you. Check out the young riders making a storm now, Adeline, Chayni, and Jackie Ganter. Sure, I'm sure they've been challenged, but they've also been taught properly. I think our industry needs more education as a whole, not less.
Ditto, well said. With so many resources available while not use them??
I agree. In this case, "old school" sucks. Just because kids back then had little choice but to work with what they had (myself included), doesn't mean that they should do the same today. My first horse was a spoiled, rank SOB at times. I loved him, but I won't have another like him. My second (and last) horse was the perfect mix of challenging and perfect. He had his vices, but it was the perfect balance of yin and yang. He did his job tried and true but he could be barn and buddy sour. He Didn't kick or rear but had a nipping problem that I was able to control. He could be an angel with kids, but could be a pain for thr farrier. He was a good horse; a challenging horse. A good teacher without being a freak, cheat, or effing dangerous. | |
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Member
Posts: 36
Location: Austin, Texas | These days there are so many folks in the horse business that have lots of money. So they can buy buy buy when something doesn't work How many people have we seen in the last few years that have never been in the horse business and go out and buy multiple horses for their kid and if it doesn't win go out and buy another one.
I also grew up having to figure out my horse and make it work. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 174
| Agree with you 1000%!!!! BUT you can pick up some pretty nice horses that somebody has screwed up. | |
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 Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | While I get what you're saying I don't totally agree. I don't feel there is any good reason to put children on dangerous horses. They are going to learn much better habits by riding a nice well trained horse than they are one that challenges them constantly. I didn't grow up on easy auto pilot horses, but they certainly weren't dangerous either. You can learn a lot of bad habits by teaching yourself & just doing what it takes to make a dink of a horse ride. That's why there's lessons & clinicians today....they are there to help people learn things correctly & to prevent them from making the mistakes many of us have made. Why not take your child to lessons & have them learn things correctly from the beginning instead of making them fight a jerk of a horse, learn a bunch of bad habits on him & then have to learn to ride correctly later?
I've trained a lot of horses & there is nothing more rewarding for me than bringing one along. Seeing one progress and really learn means more to me than winning. I've rode some incredible colts & some absolute dinks. I've made a million mistakes & I've learned from them. I've had colts I've trained for customers go home & become winners in the arena or life long treausued trail riding horses....and others I've sent home from training as I've felt they're way to dangerous for their owners riding abilities. I've taken horses people felt would amount to nothing & won on them. I've sent a couple horses to the kill pen because they where so dangerous.....But just because I enjoy working hard & creating my horses doesn't mean it's wrong for someone else to go buy an outstanding finished horse & win on him. We all have different desires and goals in life and with our horses. | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I kind of agree with the OP and grew up the same way. Our non horse folks bought the 3 youngest all babies. I look back and wonder how they survived us and our parents lack of knowledge. I learned everything the hard way but was determined to learn how to do it well, if not right. No lessons, so I would study and watch those who did do things well and then spend hours upon hours trying to figure out how to get myself or my horse to at least look like we were doing it the same way. I was somehow lucky enough to not ruin any horses along the way. I was also fortunate enough early on , to not be jealous of those who had it better or easier than I. I would tell myself that everything I learned, I earned, and no one could take that away from me. And I didn't have parents hovering and screaming at me when I didn't do things right in the show ring.
I do think that second generation kids get a leg up on us first generation horse people. They absorb things and learn without even knowing it, from being with and learning from their family. So things come easier and quicker and they generally have the advantage of having better horses to ride. That, I am a little jealous of, but much too late in the game for me to worry about it now. When you don't have the best material to work with, doesn't mean that a lot of elbow grease and determination can't produce a nice horse.
I do think that what many of today's riders have not learned, is to get back up and try again. They have no patience (please note, that I did NOT say ALL of today's riders). The Divisional barrel races have produced a bunch of whiney, impatient "competitors" who whine and cry because they have been doing this for two years and STILL haven't won a buckle or saddle. There has also always been those looking for the quick way, a better horse, or a quick fix.
There have always been those with grit, and those who want quick results without "paying their dues". It doesn't matter if the money or advantages are there or not. Some will always rise to the top. We each have to decide whether or not to persevere.
For myself, I am content with what I learned, the way I learned and the fun I have had along the way. Can't imagine a parent hovering, telling me to be careful, or have to wear a helmet, or NOT to take the horse in the house as disaster will surely strike.  . For my second generation nieces and nephews, I have tried to impart the common sense and knowledge I have gained to make their way easier without holding their hand every step of the way. I just wish my horses were as broke and fit as they were when I was a kid!! Just don't have the time and patience to teach one to stand square, or walk on anything I put in their path (including the house! LOL). | |
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I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| This also made me think of when there were no clinics to go to. A stock contractor up here used to put on a rough stock rodeo school every year. One year they decided to add a barrel racing clinic to the list.....and no one would come. After a couple of years they gave up. This was a long time ago because I am now old.......sigh.....that sucks! | |
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Cold hands and Warm Heart
Location: oklahoma | I pmd someone nearly the same thing last night...however, with my own children, I wouldn't hesitate to 86 a problem, much less dangerous horse. Horses are more readily available for all levels now and it's far easier to find someone that would trade and take on a project. We also were let loose from dawn to dusk on our horses back in the 70's but you just can't do it nowadays. Our only rule was, had to be home by dark. Times have changed and there's much knowledge to be taken advantage of now. Besides, along with riding rank ponies and horses made us better horseman, a lot of us are broken down physically in our 40's and 50's. The old saying, if I'd of known now what I didn't know then, or is that a song? | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Rodeovetern you say you weren't jealous growing up, and I wanted to comment on this point.
Whoever a person is, whoever their family is rich or poor, jealousy is a sin, and this comes back to family values, and religion.
It is up to the parents to teach these values, this is what makes a good sportsperson.
I know one family who do spend money on their children's horses, and do spend the time in the arena with the children, and these children are well behaved down to earth people.
My parents couldn't afford a fancy horse, but they could send me to clinics, and I thank them for that as the horsemanship, training, reining, barrel clinics over the years have made me a better person.
I also find the clinics help you to become/appear more professional, you reflect back on the day look at the good and bad points and build from it, instead of throwing your sucker in the dirt. | |
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