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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
   
Location: Phoenix | I swear to God I'm the worst horse owner ever. I've owned horses all my life and yet I feel like I know nothing about them. So, what am I looking at here? it looks terrible and I worry and feel neglectful. The cracks are on the outside of the hoof. So if it's on the left side in the picture, it's on the right hoof..
Edited by hammer_time 2015-04-03 12:02 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | All I can see is the feet are breaking over to the side the cracks are on... If you want to show it truly. hold the leg, to let the hoof hang naturally.. Don't hold the foot...
Edited by komet. 2015-03-20 9:45 PM
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | Hard to say for sure from that angle & with shoes on. But to me it looks like the heels are very underrun as well as contracted. It looks like there is a lot of heel that should be trimmed off. The deep groove in the center of the frog is a pretty good indication of central sucus thrush. |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
| The feet are not balanced. The point of the frog should be in the middle of the shoe. And I agree with too much heel. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | SaraJean - 2015-03-20 10:50 PM Hard to say for sure from that angle & with shoes on. But to me it looks like the heels are very underrun as well as contracted. It looks like there is a lot of heel that should be trimmed off. The deep groove in the center of the frog is a pretty good indication of central sucus thrush.
I agree and thrush usually is present with that. Id get a syringe and betadine and also thrush buster and Id be syringing into those center crevices . |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I see alot of heel there.  |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Hard to tell a lot from the pictures, but the horse appears to be mule footed with a lot of heel and very deep frogs. Extremely deep frogs will require constant vigilance and treatment for thrush. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Very contracted by the picture, and an unhealthy foot
Additional pictures would be beneficial, side view of foot on ground, front view, and hind view.
To me the frog has no where to go because of the shoes.
When the horse places foot on the ground the frog should drop pulling blood into the foot, when the frog drops the heels expand actually the entire foot expands in diameter this creates a vacuum pulling the blood into the foot.
When the horse picks foot up, the frog retracts the foot contracts in diameter and the blood is pushed out of the foot.
With too small of a shoe this cannot happen
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Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Gahhhhh. I'll get some other views tomorrow. Shoer is coming out in a week. Might have to find another? Or do I give him a chance to correct it? If it's not one thing, it's another.... :/ |
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 Expert
Posts: 1482
Location: on my horse | Have a good conversation with him about what is concerning to you about his current shoe job and see if he is willing and able to correct it. Also don't be so hard on yourself!! you are doing the best you can to care for your horse and are putting out serious effort and money to make sure that you're educated and your horse is comfortable.
That says much about you as an owner and a person so don't be so down you are not neglectful! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| hammer_time - 2015-03-20 11:16 PM
Gahhhhh. I'll get some other views tomorrow. Shoer is coming out in a week. Might have to find another? Or do I give him a chance to correct it? If it's not one thing, it's another.... :/
In my experience farriers actually don't know how to properly size a shoe for the foot.
I had two horses that were contracting, I told my farrier, and he said nope they weren't contracted, went to my vet, sure enough they were contracted.
The vets farrier is 70 yrs old and takes 2 hrs to put on front shoes, and from what he taught me, and what the vet has taught me, I have never seen any other horse, that has shoes on the way this farrier did and taught me.
My vet also took the farrier course at Oklahoma and is certified.
It took my horses 18 months to grow out to a healthy foot, I tried farriers that my vet instructed and observed, as soon as the vet wasn't there, all the farriers I used except to the 70 yr old resorted back to their own ways.
I have been barefoot now for coming up 4 years, I have old Mac boots that I use if need be, I have used them in the mountains, through rivers, in snow, and doubt I will ever go back to shoes.
If you can it may be cheaper to go barefoot invest in boots.
Since I did this my horses feet have never been healthier
Edited by cheryl makofka 2015-03-21 12:47 AM
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | cheryl makofka - 2015-03-20 11:48 PM hammer_time - 2015-03-20 11:16 PM Gahhhhh. I'll get some other views tomorrow. Shoer is coming out in a week. Might have to find another? Or do I give him a chance to correct it? If it's not one thing, it's another.... :/ In my experience farriers actually don't know how to properly size a foot for a shoe. I had two horses that were contracting, I told my farrier, and he said nope they weren't contracted, went to my vet, sure enough they were contracted. The vets farrier is 70 yrs old and takes 2 hrs to put on front shoes, and from what he taught me, and what the vet has taught me, I have never seen any other horse, that has shoes on the way this farrier did and taught me. My vet also took the farrier course at Oklahoma and is certified. It took my horses 18 months to grow out to a healthy foot, I tried farriers that my vet instructed and observed, as soon as the vet wasn't there, all the farriers I used except to the 70 yr old resorted back to their own ways. I have been barefoot now for coming up 4 years, I have old Mac boots that I use if need be, I have used them in the mountains, through rivers, in snow, and doubt I will ever go back to shoes. If you can it may be cheaper to go barefoot invest in boots. Since I did this my horses feet have never been healthier
Now I see where we do not agree.... The first thing we were taught in farrier school... was you don't size/shape the foot to the shoe... You size/shape the shoe to the foot.. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| komet. - 2015-03-21 12:00 AM
cheryl makofka - 2015-03-20 11:48 PM hammer_time - 2015-03-20 11:16 PM Gahhhhh. I'll get some other views tomorrow. Shoer is coming out in a week. Might have to find another? Or do I give him a chance to correct it? If it's not one thing, it's another.... :/ In my experience farriers actually don't know how to properly size a foot for a shoe. I had two horses that were contracting, I told my farrier, and he said nope they weren't contracted, went to my vet, sure enough they were contracted. The vets farrier is 70 yrs old and takes 2 hrs to put on front shoes, and from what he taught me, and what the vet has taught me, I have never seen any other horse, that has shoes on the way this farrier did and taught me. My vet also took the farrier course at Oklahoma and is certified. It took my horses 18 months to grow out to a healthy foot, I tried farriers that my vet instructed and observed, as soon as the vet wasn't there, all the farriers I used except to the 70 yr old resorted back to their own ways. I have been barefoot now for coming up 4 years, I have old Mac boots that I use if need be, I have used them in the mountains, through rivers, in snow, and doubt I will ever go back to shoes. If you can it may be cheaper to go barefoot invest in boots. Since I did this my horses feet have never been healthier
Now I see where we do not agree.... The first thing we were taught in farrier school... was you don't size/shape the foot to the shoe... You size/shape the shoe to the foot..
No you are correct what I meant to say is how to properly size a shoe to fit the horse. I will edit it
The farrier and vet both explained to me for the foot to function properly while in a shoe 1/8" of the shoe needs to be exposed all the way around the foot to allow the expansion and contraction of the foot.
For the year I had shoes on my two horses, the vet and farrier put them in a size bigger had 1/8" of the shoe exposed, and I never lost one shoe. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | komet. - 2015-03-21 12:00 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-20 11:48 PM hammer_time - 2015-03-20 11:16 PM Gahhhhh. I'll get some other views tomorrow. Shoer is coming out in a week. Might have to find another? Or do I give him a chance to correct it? If it's not one thing, it's another.... :/ In my experience farriers actually don't know how to properly size a foot for a shoe. I had two horses that were contracting, I told my farrier, and he said nope they weren't contracted, went to my vet, sure enough they were contracted. The vets farrier is 70 yrs old and takes 2 hrs to put on front shoes, and from what he taught me, and what the vet has taught me, I have never seen any other horse, that has shoes on the way this farrier did and taught me. My vet also took the farrier course at Oklahoma and is certified. It took my horses 18 months to grow out to a healthy foot, I tried farriers that my vet instructed and observed, as soon as the vet wasn't there, all the farriers I used except to the 70 yr old resorted back to their own ways. I have been barefoot now for coming up 4 years, I have old Mac boots that I use if need be, I have used them in the mountains, through rivers, in snow, and doubt I will ever go back to shoes. If you can it may be cheaper to go barefoot invest in boots. Since I did this my horses feet have never been healthier Now I see where we do not agree.... The first thing we were taught in farrier school... was you don't size/shape the foot to the shoe... You size/shape the shoe to the foot..
This makes more sense to me. It seems like it would be impossible for shoes to just come in a size that perfectly matches the hoof |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | cheryl makofka - 2015-03-21 12:46 AM komet. - 2015-03-21 12:00 AM cheryl makofka - 2015-03-20 11:48 PM hammer_time - 2015-03-20 11:16 PM Gahhhhh. I'll get some other views tomorrow. Shoer is coming out in a week. Might have to find another? Or do I give him a chance to correct it? If it's not one thing, it's another.... :/ In my experience farriers actually don't know how to properly size a foot for a shoe. I had two horses that were contracting, I told my farrier, and he said nope they weren't contracted, went to my vet, sure enough they were contracted. The vets farrier is 70 yrs old and takes 2 hrs to put on front shoes, and from what he taught me, and what the vet has taught me, I have never seen any other horse, that has shoes on the way this farrier did and taught me. My vet also took the farrier course at Oklahoma and is certified. It took my horses 18 months to grow out to a healthy foot, I tried farriers that my vet instructed and observed, as soon as the vet wasn't there, all the farriers I used except to the 70 yr old resorted back to their own ways. I have been barefoot now for coming up 4 years, I have old Mac boots that I use if need be, I have used them in the mountains, through rivers, in snow, and doubt I will ever go back to shoes. If you can it may be cheaper to go barefoot invest in boots. Since I did this my horses feet have never been healthier Now I see where we do not agree.... The first thing we were taught in farrier school... was you don't size/shape the foot to the shoe... You size/shape the shoe to the foot.. No you are correct what I meant to say is how to properly size a shoe to fit the horse. I will edit it The farrier and vet both explained to me for the foot to function properly while in a shoe 1/8" of the shoe needs to be exposed all the way around the foot to allow the expansion and contraction of the foot. For the year I had shoes on my two horses, the vet and farrier put them in a size bigger had 1/8" of the shoe exposed, and I never lost one shoe.
Yes.. we were told "The width of a nickel"... if the shoe was a tiny bit long... just curl it around toward the bulbs..:)
That much more support..
Edited by komet. 2015-03-21 1:28 AM
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 The BHW Book Worm
Posts: 1768
| I would send photos to your vet then share with your farrier what they have to say. do NOT be afraid to start shopping for a new farrier.
Edited by Thistle2011 2015-03-21 8:08 AM
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I have had a couple of horses, that if you left ANY shoe exposed, would walk them off. The one would stand there . find the lip on the shoes and step on it, even if it was on the outside of the hoof, with his legs all crossed to get the job done. The other would flat walk/run out of them. My farrier had to be reminded NOT to leave that nickle's width showing or he would be resetting the shoe within days. Sigh..why do some have to be so unco-operative?! |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | I have a great knowledgable Farrier that goes to school and clinics and has been in the business and my farrier for over 23 years.. except when I was down south. so your statement is false.. not all farriers are bad.. .. some do a good job at keeping horses sound and healthy.he is expensive but worth it. |
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Regular
Posts: 79
| The vertical cracks are actually caused by having heels too long. And yes, very contracted heels. The comments about being diligent cleaning the frog area are right on the mark... the contracted heels dont allow the frog to 'self clean' each time the horse steps down, because the frog can't expand. I'm not a huge fan of barefoot, but I honestly think I would pull his shoes and have a barefoot trimmer specialist take care of him for at least four months.
Best of luck, keep us updated.
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 Unknown Drip
Posts: 5624
Location: Back in MT BABY!!! | How long have you had your current shoer? If it's been more than a couple shoeing yes I would be shopping for a new one. Most shoers I know are very set in their ways and are not going to change their style of shoeing (unless it's a young inexperienced shoer) but if they have been shoeing for a few years on their own chances are they know everything and you aren't going to convince them otherwise. |
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