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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
 
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | I've used polyglycan with good results...anybody have any data about whether or not oral joint supplements are really getting the job done? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 306
Location: Albany, Georgia | I would love to know as well. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| I'm glad you opened this discussion up bc I've been told by world class vets I was wasting my money on oral supplements that they do not make it past the stomach.
I think Cheryl said lubrisyn was absorbed before it gets to the stomach, it would make sense for it to be affective if this is true.
I dunno how a dog's stomach really compares to a horses because dogs are not meant to graze constantly throughout the day concerning meals but I recently started giving my dog Cosquin DS oral supplement chews and after a week I can see a noticeable difference: not as stiff movement wise, gets up and down easier, and she even wants to jump on the bed more often which she had quit doing or tried to avoid. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Horses' stomachs are incredibly good at breaking down grass. They are equally good at breaking down these chemicals. My sister, who is in pharmacy school and graduates in May, says you might as well give them a higher protein ration or just some solid amino acids. Their stomachs will break these down and just use them in the body's normal functions. If you want real results with HA/glucosamine you must get an injectable like Adequan, Pentosan, or Legend, all of which have different purposes.
People have a lot of anecdotal evidence on oral joint supplements but peer reviewed studies show no significant improvement. Dogs and humans are different. Our stomachs work differently. These supplements can be effective for us orally. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I won't say they don't work at all, but injectibles work way (WAY) better. You get a lot more for your money injecting the stuff. |
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| Curious to see research/data on this. I started a horse on Pentosan a few weeks ago, but he is terrible about getting shots. Even when I'm brushing/saddling him he is suspicious of me being around his neck now. I can tell the pentosan is working great on him, but it's getting to the point where I don't feel safe giving them myself. I've been wanting to try ActiFlex-4000. I would just hate to give up the Pentosan. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| WrapN3MN - 2015-04-08 10:14 AM
Curious to see research/data on this. I started a horse on Pentosan a few weeks ago, but he is terrible about getting shots. Even when I'm brushing/saddling him he is suspicious of me being around his neck now. I can tell the pentosan is working great on him, but it's getting to the point where I don't feel safe giving them myself. I've been wanting to try ActiFlex-4000. I would just hate to give up the Pentosan.
Nothing is going to be as affective as the injections....
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | WrapN3MN - 2015-04-08 9:14 AM Curious to see research/data on this. I started a horse on Pentosan a few weeks ago, but he is terrible about getting shots. Even when I'm brushing/saddling him he is suspicious of me being around his neck now. I can tell the pentosan is working great on him, but it's getting to the point where I don't feel safe giving them myself. I've been wanting to try ActiFlex-4000. I would just hate to give up the Pentosan.
I have a program at my house called Cookies for Torture. Anytime I do something unpleasant, they get a cookie after. It works really well for most horses. The ones that still get nervous, I feed them something super yummy so they're chewing while I'm poking (and then they get a cookie after too). They can't be uptight and still chew (they can, however, hold their breath and chew LOL). I have turned a lot of horses around doing this. Works for cinchy horses too.
I also give a lot of shots low in the butt. Less soreness, and they don't seem to notice it as much.
what size needle are you using? |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | so far I really like the pentosan too. I've had the best luck giving their shots in the chest/pec muscle. The pony hates shots in the neck and it's hard to give in the butt when I'm doing it alone. |
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Veteran
Posts: 242
Location: Nowhere Land | I use Formula 1 Noni Blue Label HA and Cetyl M .. I find the combination works well. A few horses Ive witnessed tremendous improvements in movement and behavior. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 494
| Ive seen CetylM work wonders on a dog. Haven't tried it on any horses, but I have tried everything else over the rainbow and nothing. Injectables are the only way to go |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1062
Location: Probably On the Road to the Next Barrel Race! | so far, everyone is saying oral is a waste, which I suspected from my own limited research...wantted to keep the topic going in case any vets wanted to weigh in, here...thank you |
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | I will feed msm, but that's about it. Better bang for your buck with injectibles.
I did see improvement with some of them in the past, but not enough to warrant the cost vs a product like Pentosan. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | When I was using Adaquan, I usually injected into the pectoral muscles (or hindquarters). My horse had to undergo a ton of penecillin when he had bastard strangles and doesn't like shots in the neck. He'll tolerate it, but gives you the look. He doesn't even notice in the pecs or gluteal region.
I myself have been wondering about supplements and honestly, we owned a calf horse that was 20-28 years old when we had him and a bunch of guys always rode at the Pendleton roundup year after year. He never got a joint supplement. Just his grain and we kept him on Adaquan and he felt GOOD. Acted like he was 5. After the loading dose, you figure its about ~$40 a month for the shot if you're giving it monthly. I think I might go that route. But it makes you wonder when you are reading great reviews on joint supplements.... |
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 Famous for Not Complaining
Posts: 8848
Location: Broxton, Ga | CrossCreek - 2015-04-07 3:30 PM
so far, everyone is saying oral is a waste, which I suspected from my own limited research...wantted to keep the topic going in case any vets wanted to weigh in, here...thank you
You are correct.
Basically the molecule is too large for the horse to absorb. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I've never seen any clinical evidence that feed through joint supplements do a whole lot, but there's tons of anecdotal evidence. I've never noticed it making any difference in my horses, but then again, neither had any major issues. I've started just giving them MSM and just got some herbs for one to experiment with. |
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Regular
Posts: 72
| Check out Actistatin Equine. It uses a "binder" that carries it through to the hindgut where it is better utilized by the horse. No other joint supplement contains this binder. No loading dose required. They have positive test results using the AAEP lameness scale. The best results I've ever had on any horse using any oral joint supplement. I have not used the human version, but Gary Stevens says it is what got him back into the highest level of competition as a jockey at 50 years old. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | It makes sense to me that if you feed a supplement orally, it isn't going to actually make it to the joints. Hence why I have one horse with known problems on Adequan and the other healthy one on Pentosan (as a preventative).
But with that said, I still feed a custom blend of T.H.E. Muscle Mass for joint support anyway. Makes me feel good that they are getting their "vitamins" even though they might just be pooping them out ....  Maybe some of it will get in there, even if it is just a litte.
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | I personally use Animal Element Performance Detox every morning in my protein shake. I broke my neck in 2013 and if I miss a day of the detox my neck is stiff. It helps. And I make sure me nor my horses ever miss a day of it. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 999
Location: Sunny So Cal | I think it just depends on the horse. I have some oral supplements that work great on one of my horses but not the other one. My gelding, who happens to be problematic was noticeable better within 3 days of starting the JointPLUS. My trainer even noticed he was moving better and looking better. He is 14, but my 10 year old mare didn't get the same results. I forsure thought I was going to have crazy power or strength or something (don't really know what I thought I was going to get...superhorse maybe) from her but she pretty much felt the same. I could tell she was a little better but not the same transformation as my gelding. But she also doesn't have the problems that he has had.  So i really don't know, but I think it just depends. |
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