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What Name?
Posts: 1994
   
| I have personally been struggling on and off for the last year with my faith. I've been trying to re-establish it, and have made huge strides. Making time for church, praying, reading my bible and actually becoming aquainted with the word of God.
There are some parts that I truly have problems with and I think these issues are undermining my ability to have full faith. So I'm seeking help from my sisters, who maybe can show me the light. Give me some advice.
I personally struggle with some of the wrathful parts in the bible. When God punishish huge groups of people, for the transgressions of a few. Like, when God kills the first born of egypt. I know he did it to punish the adults, but the children paid the price of the sin. I dunno, it's hard for me. But I'm trying.
I also have a really hard time with the parts about woman. Like, not having a voice in church. It being sinful for women to lead men. Does anyone else have a hard time with this?
In such a forward thinking day and age, it's hard for me to digest a limit to my voice and abilities simply because of my sex. Even though it's in the bible, and I know in my heart I can't pick parts to choose to believe and other to discard. It's all or nothing.
Just a personal trial I'm dealing with today. Thanks for listening!
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-14 9:53 AM
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | Hey, I understand where you are coming from! I personally have a hard time with the book of Revelation...it scares me!
I think a lot of parts in the Bible, especially the first born in Egypt being killed, had to do with the culture back then. The first born, son especially, inherited the largest portion of the family estate, they were the ones who were to carry on the family name. But, it is also why the Israelites were made to consecrate their first born sons. But also the Egyptians wouldn't listen to lesser forms of punishment. God isn't hard hearted or cruel, but He does give you a chance to change, if not then He lets you go on in your own free will until death ultimately occurs (I believe the book of Romans would be a good place to read about that).
As far as women in the church, I believe that goes back to Adam and Eve. Adam was formed first, then Eve, but again there can be no more Adams without Eves (man is born of woman). But, also the culture of the time, women were pretty much considered nothing, they were a person to cook, clean, and bear children...and often men had more than one wife. However, if you read the Bible thoroughly, women played a huge roll...Rahab, from the book of Joshua, was in the line of King David, as was Ruth in the book of Ruth, which in turn was in the line of Jesus. Just like there could be no Jesus if Mary hadn't accepted the plan God had made for her. Many people think of Mary as a grown woman when she had Jesus, but according to the times, she was more than likely no more than a teenager, and can't you imagine how scary that would be, especially in that day and age!
But I feel that the reasonings of the Bible need no explanation, as the Bible is the word of God handed down through his prophets. I think the deal with the women being subject to man has more to due with respect; as it explains in the New Testament, Christ is the head of man, just as man is the head of his wife. Look at it as you have your President, then Vice President, then Speaker of the House, then Senators and Legislators, and so on down the line. There are different levels of authority.
I can understand wanting explanations, but sometimes it is better to trust God in what was said, and then sometimes the explanation will come later.
But this was much longer than it was intended to be, but it never hurts to ponder or have questions...that is how people learn. I am by no mean an expert, but would be glad to have you PM me or ask me any questions you like! If you want, PM your email address and I would love to discuss further. I'll be at work most of today, but will be back on this evening. Blessing! | |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
One of the first things that we have to remember is that God loves us... ALWAYS. Sometimes I think that it is hard to read the Old Testament first, especially for a young Christian (as in young in their journey). I can certainly address some of your concerns though...
We must remember that God's wisdom is infinite. If the kings in the OT would have been obedient when God told them to take out everyone, we wouldn't be dealing with the Muslims extremists, trying to take over the world, that we deal with today.
As for being a woman. God made us to be the caregivers of all generations. I LOVE my role as a woman and I am past the point of MAKING people hear me. I accept who I am in Him and I am so glad I am not a man, lol. No offense to men.
That being said... read Luke... it is the story of Jesus. Get the red-letter version so you can see that the words were His. Learn who's you are and why you are His. Get in a quiet place when you read and put yourself in the story. Pretend you were right there with Jesus and the multitudes. When you get through the New Testament, then go back and read the history of where we were before Jesus came. You will better understand God's love for us if you do it that way.
I think about how, with each child, I learned more and more. By the time the last one got a little older, I was a way better parent. Maybe it was the same with God. Many generations had to pass away before He said to Himself, I need to try a new way with this next bunch. Hello Jesus!
I think we all struggle with faith sometimes. I know I went through the same thing when I was in my early 20's. I was really searching for answers and finding little consolation in the ones that I was getting. Never stop SEEKING ANSWERS and never stop ASKING FOR WISDOM. Our life in Christ is a spiritual journey and one that we will forever be on. It is the never ending journey. I love where God has brought me, and the journey has helped to build character in me. Keep searching and keep reading. I will join you in praying that God will give you wisdom in these things and faith that cannot be shaken. I'm excited that you are seeking answers in His word and asking questions! God has big plans for you little sister and He will see them come to pass. Keep your heart and your mind open to Him.
God Bless!
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 557
Location: Kansas and loving it | The death of the first born Egyptian is Pharaoh fault. Moses told him that the last curse would come from his own lips. Ramses then declared the first born Israelite should be killed. The edict then turned to the male children of Egypt. Also, a lamb must be slaughtered and the blood brushed on the doorway as a sign of faithful followers inside. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| Thank you for taking the time to answer. It's hard in todays world, when even our music has turned sinful and our children are raised in societal sin.
Doubts plague me and I know through Jesus I will over come them. Faith is hard, and I would think if it were easy it wouldn't be worth it. Sometimes, it just helps to know other people face the same fears I face. To know it was overcome and that, with Jesus I too can overcome this trial.
My aunt posted something rather intense on my facebook when I said something about people voting for hiliary simply because she's a woman. It was a long the lines of, ' a woman leading this country will lead us into evil.' It was kind of scary in all honesty. Intense in belief. The kind of belief I usually associate with " RADICALS". But I'm trying to understand her views and maybe become more familiar wit WHY she feels this way. As I haven't come across that many versus about woman yet. I've just begun reading my bible again.
I respect men, especially my father, my brother and other manly figures in my life. Ultimately I respect Jesus and our Lord in heaven. It just kind of got the wheels going though, about how so much in our culture has changed.
Thank you for taking the time to help me through this. Sometimes I have to stop and pray intensely to Jesus to reach out and calm my fears. But I know, as my faith grows, the shadow of my fears will become smaller.
Edited by americanpride08 2015-04-14 11:38 AM
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| I love this post! I have some stuff to add, but no time right now, I just want to make sure I keep up with this- great questions from an intelligent christian! All I can say for now is that I had the same issues as you did but as I read specifically about what Jesus did and stay away from the parts that man thought God did I am better off! Thank goodness we have the New Testament- we'd all be terrorists if we only had the Old!! :) | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society. | |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 11:41 AM
 I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it.  Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society.
We have to be careful about picking and choosing... If it's in there, it's because God allowed it in there. I may not LIKE everything I read, but that doesn't necessarily make it untrue. What, specifically, bothers you about what Paul wrote?
Edited by grinandbareit 2015-04-14 11:47 AM
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 BHW New Catch of the Day
Posts: 9884
Location: Missouri | It was a different time then and I don't believe God expects us to continue to live as in the biblical days. That being said I also know that I'm not supposed to pick and choose what things I want to believe and what things I don't. I either believe it all and adhear to it all.
I have a hard time too sometimes.......just continue to have faith and let him lead your heart. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| Corinthians is kind of intense for me... It's so harsh. Granted most of my bible study is from when I was a child. I'm relearning everything from an adult perspective now, starting at the beginning and working my way through the lessons. So other than the famous versus and what I've studied the last few months in church, I'm still learning A LOT. And will continue to do so.
I will be baptized this summer. =) I'm pretty excited about it. My grandmothers death last year set this ball in motion for me. She was such a Godly woman, that I loved very very very much. I can't imagine her going anywhere but to heaven, and I have no doubt she is there. She sealed my need for faith. Because I want to walk in heaven with her again one day. | |
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 Googly Goo
Posts: 7053
| Scripture does not call for women to be weak. It's calling for men to be strong. It also gives men the responsibility of loving his wife as Jesus loved the church. That's calling for a pretty high bar. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 518
| Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society.
I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting! | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 806
Location: Arkansas | I would highly suggest looking into finding a Bible Study Fellowship group in your area. I was in a really dark place, and was asked to attend by a coworker. I was raised in a very religious family and attended church every Sunday but I still had a very weak faith. I began attending the BSF which studies the Bible. I understood so much better and more than I ever could through church or sunday school alone. Someone could preach it to me, try to explain it to me, but it wasn't until I was digging into it and had some help that I could form my own opinions based on what was in front of me in the Bible that I did not understand before. | |
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What Name?
Posts: 1994
| I'm glad everyones joining with this conversation. I love reading peoples views! I'm glad I'm not the only one who has climbed this hill. I always like perspective on everything that I think. I always feel better when I come to my conclusions after seeing things through other peoples eyes.
As for God wishing for us to live in the biblical days.. I swear little house on the prairie had it right.! Funny I should be named after both Laura and Cassandra on that show...
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 713
Location: ND | americanpride08 - 2015-04-14 11:03 AM
 Thank you for taking the time to answer. It's hard in todays world, when even our music has turned sinful and our children are raised in societal sin.
Doubts plague me and I know through Jesus I will over come them. Faith is hard, and I would think if it were easy it wouldn't be worth it. Sometimes, it just helps to know other people face the same fears I face. To know it was overcome and that, with Jesus I too can overcome this trial.
My aunt posted something rather intense on my facebook when I said something about people voting for hiliary simply because she's a woman. It was a long the lines of, Â ' Â a woman leading this country will lead us into evil.' Â It was kind of scary in all honesty. Intense in belief. The kind of belief I usually associate with " RADICALS". But I'm trying to understand her views and maybe become more familiar wit WHY she feels this way. As I haven't come across that many versus about woman yet. I've just begun reading my bible again.
I respect men, especially my father, my brother and other manly figures in my life. Ultimately I respect Jesus and our Lord in heaven. Â It just kind of got the wheels going though, about how so much in our culture has changed.Â
Thank you for taking the time to help me through this. Sometimes I have to stop and pray intensely to Jesus to reach out and calm my fears. But I know, as my faith grows, the shadow of my fears will become smaller.
I was told this and I really like it. Faith is like a muscle, when you haven't used it, it weakens. When you work it, it strengthens. Just like going to the gym, at first it's hard.. but at you grow it gets easier. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | avmalibu - 2015-04-14 11:54 AM
Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM Â I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Â Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society.
I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting!
Three 4 Luck. I agree with you. I'm not a fan of Paul and not just because of his views on women like many people. I find some of his theology a bit weak. He also says some powerful things. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but we must remember that there are some things that Paul says that he flat out says are his opinion and not directly from God. We must keep that in mind when we read Paul. Some of it is just Paul, a righteous man no doubt, but a man.
A lot of people also have the philosophy that you HAVE to take the whole bible in order to be a Christian. That is invalid. All one has to do is look at the history of the how the bible became the bible to see that everyone, since the council of nicea and on, has been picking and choosing the books they consider sound doctrine and condemning those they don't like. The reason why some bibles have the 'apocrypha' section is because after the Reformation, a lot of new Protestants looked at certain books in the Catholic bible like the book of Wisdom, some of the chapters of Esther, Baruk, some of the chapters of Daniel, etc. and said they didn't believe they were the 'word of God.' Men decide what the 'word of God' is and what it is not. Men also wrote the 'word of God.' All that being said I believe that the Bible is a sacred book. I believe it has the words of God in it but we cannot forget that men have been the mouthpiece through which it has come. Men are flawed. End of story. The Bible is also not one book; it is an anthology. There are STILL ongoing debates about whether or not the Book of Revelation or the Book of Hebrews (especially since this is the one book in the New Testament with blatant contradictions of Old Testament history) should even be allowed in now. What is in the bible is not fixed, it's fluid.
I believe our study of the bible should begin with what the bible itself is and how it came to be and then move onto what it contains. By understanding how we got our bible, we understand the contents and the contexts of those contents better. Context is very important when reading the bible. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | avmalibu - 2015-04-14 11:54 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society. I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting!
I believe a lot of it was inspired by God, but man changed it up quite a bit. Include this, don't include that, change this word or phrasing to something we like better, or just outright make mistakes in the translating and copying. Paul wrote letters to the churches, those were Paul's words and his understanding of the teachings of Jesus. So when I'm sitting in church and someone reads an excerpt of an epistle followed by "This is the Word of the Lord" and I reply with "Thanks be to God", I'm a fake. Look at what man has done to God's church over the centuries--don't you think the same thing can and has happened to the Bible? God gives us these things and we proceed to screw them up.
that makes me a bad person in the eyes of some, but God still loves me and I Him. | |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | oija - 2015-04-14 12:23 PM avmalibu - 2015-04-14 11:54 AM Three 4 Luck - 2015-04-14 10:41 AM I personally can't stand quite a lot of what Paul wrote, so I ignore it. Some of my not nice ideas about him aside, and even taking his conversion at face value, he was writing to churches in the context of the times, so those stupid rules weren't like commands from God--we had women disciples, after all--it was more like helpful hints to grow the church within their society. I don't want to sound like I am challenging what you say because I am genuinely interested in you're answer. But the Bible was written by God, through man, but it is still God's Word, right? So how can you ignore some parts of the Bible and believe others? I actually find what Paul writes quite helpful and comforting! Three 4 Luck. I agree with you. I'm not a fan of Paul and not just because of his views on women like many people. I find some of his theology a bit weak. He also says some powerful things. We shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, but we must remember that there are some things that Paul says that he flat out says are his opinion and not directly from God. We must keep that in mind when we read Paul. Some of it is just Paul, a righteous man no doubt, but a man. A lot of people also have the philosophy that you HAVE to take the whole bible in order to be a Christian. That is invalid. All one has to do is look at the history of the how the bible became the bible to see that everyone, since the council of nicea and on, has been picking and choosing the books they consider sound doctrine and condemning those they don't like. The reason why some bibles have the 'apocrypha' section is because after the Reformation, a lot of new Protestants looked at certain books in the Catholic bible like the book of Wisdom, some of the chapters of Esther, Baruk, some of the chapters of Daniel, etc. and said they didn't believe they were the 'word of God.' Men decide what the 'word of God' is and what it is not. Men also wrote the 'word of God.' All that being said I believe that the Bible is a sacred book. I believe it has the words of God in it but we cannot forget that men have been the mouthpiece through which it has come. Men are flawed. End of story. The Bible is also not one book; it is an anthology. There are STILL ongoing debates about whether or not the Book of Revelation or the Book of Hebrews (especially since this is the one book in the New Testament with blatant contradictions of Old Testament history ) should even be allowed in now. What is in the bible is not fixed, it's fluid. I believe our study of the bible should begin with what the bible itself is and how it came to be and then move onto what it contains. By understanding how we got our bible, we understand the contents and the contexts of those contents better. Context is very important when reading the bible.
Thank you. You said it better and more nicely than I did. | |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | TXBO - 2015-04-14 11:53 AM Scripture does not call for women to be weak. It's calling for men to be strong. It also gives men the responsibility of loving his wife as Jesus loved the church. That's calling for a pretty high bar.
Very well put.
A lot of the Old Testament is difficult to read, it's so harsh....but you have to remember that we have a new covanant with God when Jesus died for our sins.
Check out Beth Moore if you have the chance. She does some great studies.
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I go through this same battle often. I also hate the saying "you can't pick and choose what to believe" since we ALL pick and choose what we follow in the Bible. No one on here adheres to every commandment that is written in the Bible. People then use the New Testament as their excuse to not follow things that they feel do not apply to them but yet will judge others for their sins. We are all sinners. We can never be perfect. We were not made to be perfect. But what we can do is to try our best to learn and to focus our hearts on Him. I look forward to reading more replies because like I said I to have many of the same questions. My heart wants to believe and I feel at peace when I follow my heart but my mind wants to argue and find reason behind every little thing. | |
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