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Expert
Posts: 3147
   
| Does anyone else think a 30% take out from your entry fee is too much? The take out has continually gone up from zero take out to 25 and 30% now. Producers are already getting a handling fee on top of the entry fee and sometimes a late fee! Until people start paying attention to the take out and say No by not entering the take out is going to increase! Another way producers are taking money from you is by taking out part of the incentive entry and putting it in their pocket. I consider that double dipping. Enough is enough. | |
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Location: In my own little world | With what it costs to produce a barrel race, no I don't think 30% is out of line at all. | |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| I wont go to a jackpot that takes out more than 25%....I am going to make money, not make someone else money | |
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| Here it varies from 20 to 30% and I am good with either. I go barrel racing to have fun, and hopefully, make a little of my expenses back which doubles my fun! If I barrel raced for the purpose of making money, I'd of had to quit a long time ago. For me it's pure entertainment....like going gambling, so to speak. I appreciate the fact that there are those willing to put themselves out there and produce barrel races for us to enjoy, even with all the headaches and complaints that come with being a producer....if they can put some money in their pockets producing, it makes it more likely that they will continue producing barrel races...good for them! When we don't like something stay home, if we go, we should go with a good attitude and have fun....it's up to each individual. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| I produce barrel races. I use my own arena so I don't have to pay facility rent. It costs me about a $1,000 ( Water truck rental, electricity, awards, not to mention days and days of time ahead of the race) to put on a SMALLER $500 added or less race. In my area we get about forty in the open. I do not charge an office fee or grounds fee, or late fee, and I even offer unlimited time onlys for $10. I usually barely break even or lose couple hundred. I sanction with an association that mandates I hold 33%. | |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | Several factors come into play such the office/handling fee, nomination fees for a series, added money etc. When the actual return on total entry cost drops below 60% and their is no substantial added money, I will usually opt out. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| I don't understand why everyone is so quick to b*tch about fee's, it costs producers money to put on races for you! It's not free and they don't do it to get rich. facility fees have gone up, software, electricity, fuel, added money..... all of it has gone UP over the years. If you are so worried about the fee's, start producing your own races and run it how you want to... No fees, lots of added money, heck.. how about not even charge an entry fee because someone is going to have a problem with how much it is, and make sure you pay back 100% of the entries to them too! It'll cost you about $1000-$1500/race so I hope you have a money tree growing in the back! | |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | BMW - 2015-04-28 11:46 PM Does anyone else think a 30% take out from your entry fee is too much? The take out has continually gone up from zero take out to 25 and 30% now. Producers are already getting a handling fee on top of the entry fee and sometimes a late fee! Until people start paying attention to the take out and say No by not entering the take out is going to increase! Another way producers are taking money from you is by taking out part of the incentive entry and putting it in their pocket. I consider that double dipping. Enough is enough.
Put on your own barrel race if you don't like it.
....and then you'll see how much it costs!!
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  Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
Location: Dubach, LA | I'm with you BMW. I think it's gotten outrageous. Office fees, late fees, tie out fees, stall fees, hook up fees, fees per day instead of per show. Entry fees and exhibition fees and all other fees keep going up and up and up. Producers that charge a fee to run for average prizes when the prizes were DONATED. In my area, you will pay a $25 entry and $10 sign up with only 70-80% going to the pay out pot for a $250 added money, a $500 added money, or $1000 added money. Never met a producer yet that says he/she was making money! Hand over fist money. They are well into the black before the race even starts when they sell a couple hundred exhibitions for 4 bucks each. Around here, labor is donated for exhibitions or small club donations. Of course they are making money! Shoot. That's the only job some of them have. It's also one of the very few drawbacks of the D system. It's attracted tons and tons of folk who can pay anything to compete for prizes just to say they won something. It's like a mini vacay twice a month for those people. Money doesn't matter. | |
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Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
Location: Dubach, LA | ] Put on your own barrel race if you don't like it.
....and then you'll see how much it costs!!
Yep. Until someone tries it and the local producers bow up and come hunting! Nothing unites established producers like an upstart going after business sponsorships. Some of us are not as dumb as we look. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | CanCan - 2015-04-29 9:53 AM I'm with you BMW. I think it's gotten outrageous. Office fees, late fees, tie out fees, stall fees, hook up fees, fees per day instead of per show. Entry fees and exhibition fees and all other fees keep going up and up and up. Producers that charge a fee to run for average prizes when the prizes were DONATED. In my area, you will pay a $25 entry and $10 sign up with only 70-80% going to the pay out pot for a $250 added money, a $500 added money, or $1000 added money. Never met a producer yet that says he/she was making money! Hand over fist money. They are well into the black before the race even starts when they sell a couple hundred exhibitions for 4 bucks each. Around here, labor is donated for exhibitions or small club donations. Of course they are making money! Shoot. That's the only job some of them have. It's also one of the very few drawbacks of the D system. It's attracted tons and tons of folk who can pay anything to compete for prizes just to say they won something. It's like a mini vacay twice a month for those people. Money doesn't matter.
And you know this all for FACT?
How do you know all the prizes were donated? Maybe there wasn't enough sponsorship money for some of them and the producer footed the rest of the bill to still have equal prizes for all the D's.
How do you know the facility rental isn't per hour? Or what it costs to begin with? So those "couple hundred" exhibitions cost the producer more in rental fees to have the facility longer for those exhibitions, if it's charged by the hour.
And there's a problem with winning prizes for having a 3D run? I'm sorry, but not every horse is capable of winning the 1D and even so, it takes them time and experience to get there, working their way up. If you don't like the D system and don't want the lower D's to win anything, then you should probably stick to rodeos.
Sounds like you have had a sour experience in the past that has really made you negative. Be thankful there ARE barrel races near you that you can attend. If you don't like how they are run, and you don't want to put on your own, then I guess you'll have to stay home. Honestly, I have no problem if our producers around here take a little $$ home for themselves. They spend a lot of time to organize the races and I am thankful that they do, so I have barrel races to go to!
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 Half-Eaten Cookies
Posts: 2075
Location: Fort Worth / Springtown | I guess producers might justify so many additional fees, but even if it is justified to them, it might not be worth it to me -- that's the main thing -- I analyze them all and have every right to.
I have produced races, but am primarily a contestant. I don't like to have more than 25% taken out, but even if they pay 80%, I'll look at all of the added fees and if it is equal payout or not (prefer not). Awards - and do you have to nominate or is it a bonus....
There are all kinds of producers -- I know one that said they make money on exhibitions, therefore, they did not care about how many entered the race and didn't try to please those that came to run. (granted this was a weeknight race - not a 3-day weekender or anything).
Another producer in the area pays 100% - even had a saddle series with only a $20 nomination fee.
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 Veteran
Posts: 160
Location: Outside of Larryville, KS | I put on a benefit race and hold back the 30%, I charge an office fee, I also have worked my butt off to get $750 in added money, plus prizes. Even with the arena donated, I still have to pay $200 for event insurance, $75 announcer fee, $500 for tractor, audio system, maintenance/security people, lights, etc. $1 for every run for Bonus Race Finals, UBRA sanctioning fee, and then everybody wants to pre-enter which I am fine with, but paypal charges a %, all that needs to come out of the processing fee and probably the exhibitions. I chose 30% because I wanted the charity to receive as much as possible, but it still isn't as much as you would think, so I end up doing a silent auction and donation sidepot as well. The majority of people have no idea how much putting on a show costs, it will each you to death! But yet I still do it! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 1580
Location: Down South | r_beau - 2015-04-29 9:40 AM BMW - 2015-04-28 11:46 PM Does anyone else think a 30% take out from your entry fee is too much? The take out has continually gone up from zero take out to 25 and 30% now. Producers are already getting a handling fee on top of the entry fee and sometimes a late fee! Until people start paying attention to the take out and say No by not entering the take out is going to increase! Another way producers are taking money from you is by taking out part of the incentive entry and putting it in their pocket. I consider that double dipping. Enough is enough. Put on your own barrel race if you don't like it.
....and then you'll see how much it costs!!
I have to agree... Put on your own if you don't like it and then you'll see just how much it costs, and not only monetary expenses, you'll see how much time is put into an event before, during, and after. I am a local NBHA director. Between NBHA sanctioned shows and my own personal shows, I produce about 15 shows a year. And you know what..??? I am GOOD at it.! (Yes I just blew my own horn). People want to ***** and complain, but few really know or even ask what it takes to put on a show. Mississippi Equine laws are pretty cut and dry. However, the facility where 95% of my shows are held requires me to carry liability insurance. I have to carry $1 Million in coverage (cost per year... about $800). I have to pay for tractor time. Rent the PA system, tables, and chairs. Facility rental is $400 per day; I get it for $400 vs. $500 because I book 6+ shows there per year. Plus, since I am an organization I get a break on rental. If I were strictly an individual, rental would be $750 per day. I do not charge any additional fees such as arena, timer, processing, etc. I do charge a $3 gate fee per person. Entry fees are mostly always.... $25 entry for $400 added to 5D Open race; split is 80/20. The few shows where I have $1000 added, entry is $30-$35, split of 70/30. While everyone else is sitting around talking and having fun with their friends, I'm in the office "WORKING". Lots go into producing a good event for people to enjoy, but yet so many want to complain. Many talk, few know.! | |
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Expert
Posts: 5290
| miss turbo - 2015-04-29 8:38 AM
r_beau - 2015-04-29 9:40 AM BMW - 2015-04-28 11:46 PM Does anyone else think a 30% take out from your entry fee is too much? The take out has continually gone up from zero take out to 25 and 30% now. Producers are already getting a handling fee on top of the entry fee and sometimes a late fee! Until people start paying attention to the take out and say No by not entering the take out is going to increase! Another way producers are taking money from you is by taking out part of the incentive entry and putting it in their pocket. I consider that double dipping. Enough is enough. Put on your own barrel race if you don't like it.Â
....and then you'll see how much it costs!!
Â
I would love to attend your race with those low entry fees and added $$$!! Come to CA please! We pay 55-75.00 entry fees for 300-500 added. | |
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 Thread Killer
Posts: 7543
| CanCan - 2015-04-29 10:53 AM
That's the only job some of them have. It's also one of the very few drawbacks of the D system. It's attracted tons and tons of folk who can pay anything to compete for prizes just to say they won something. It's like a mini vacay twice a month for those people. Money doesn't matter.
You know, it is perfectly acceptable to have fun. Money DOES matter to those people and they spend it doing things they like to do! What's wrong with that?
You just seem so bitter about competition in general. Maybe you should take a break from competing and just ride - find what made you love horses and barrels in the first place and have fun. Better yet, maybe try the barrel race producer hat on for size... | |
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | FlyingJT - 2015-04-29 10:30 AM I don't understand why everyone is so quick to b*tch about fee's, it costs producers money to put on races for you! It's not free and they don't do it to get rich. facility fees have gone up, software, electricity, fuel, added money..... all of it has gone UP over the years. If you are so worried about the fee's, start producing your own races and run it how you want to... No fees, lots of added money, heck.. how about not even charge an entry fee because someone is going to have a problem with how much it is, and make sure you pay back 100% of the entries to them too! It'll cost you about $1000-$1500/race so I hope you have a money tree growing in the back!
I b*tched about one race I went to in November. I was fee'd to death. I ran in the 2D at a large show and my check was $66. I paid my entry fee, stall fee, office fee, parking, and then I had to BUY A TICKET to the show I was running in! I learned my lesson and just won't go back.
I went to a show in April in OH and it was the nicest show I've ever been to. They had the entry fee, stall fee, and a $5.00 office charge. I didn't mind that. Excellent show with a great pay out. I will go to this particular producers shows again.
Shows can be put on without all the nickle and dime fees. It's been done. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 823
Location: East Texas | lol..... this thread cracks me up. Contestants complaining about events.....Don't like it? Don't go.
Producers complaining about putting on events.... Don't like it? Don't do it.
But since for many, rental fees, finding a place to ride, etc. has made it hard for everyone to get the practice time they need, I have thought about taking my son's life insurance and building an arena that anyone can use to practice for free. And, just like this, there would be people who would prob. complain about having a free place to ride. Know what? I don't care. I will prob. do it anyway. | |
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 I Chore in Chucks
Posts: 2882
Location: MD | lol do you want them to work for free? | |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | CrossDRanch - 2015-04-29 11:22 AM lol..... this thread cracks me up. Contestants complaining about events.....Don't like it? Don't go. Producers complaining about putting on events.... Don't like it? Don't do it. But since for many, rental fees, finding a place to ride, etc. has made it hard for everyone to get the practice time they need, I have thought about taking my son's life insurance and building an arena that anyone can use to practice for free. And, just like this, there would be people who would prob. complain about having a free place to ride. Know what? I don't care. I will prob. do it anyway.
Agreed^^^ You just cant please everybody.. LOL | |
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