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 ND Sweetheart
Posts: 3471
   
Location: In My Own Dream Land | Hi all.
This might get long, so please bare with me.
Ended up with a mare last fall. Was ran maybe 4 times before I got her. She is just now 6 this year. She is one of those that swings her butt and wont drive around or off a barrel.. I did get her xrayed and injected this spring, been over by a chiro, teeth checked, etc. So I don't beleive its a pain issue, maybe a memory of it hurting...
Anyway, I have been riding her in an oring and martingale working on stop back etc. I have her doing roll backs, and slow spins, but when you ask her to stop, she throws her nose extremely high up into the sky. she will lope collected circles, nose tucked, but stop is a major issue..
Now, I have been doing SLOW work, walk/trot only on the barrels to try and get her to work differently, but from what I'm discovering, its drilled in her mind, of where to put her feet, and I believe the positioning is part of our problem..
I'm wondering if you all have any suggestions on drills, or other things to help me with this. She has a ton of ability, (ran Friday and was 3rd in 1d, with major mistakes) I do have a video of her run, if you think it will help.
Video Link: https://youtu.be/rlFbHtwaUUQ My run starts at 29:30
Thanks in advance..
Edited by tThompson 2015-05-11 10:42 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| I have a mare exactly like yours !! She's now 8 .. So even longer of doing it this way. She is just like yours , it's just drilled in her head that that is the way it's to be done. I will be following this post bc it sure is aggravating ! They can run in the 1 d without using their body correctly at all . I can't imagine if they did ! |
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ND Sweetheart
Posts: 3471
Location: In My Own Dream Land | Fancy Lass - 2015-05-11 10:41 AM I have a mare exactly like yours !! She's now 8 .. So even longer of doing it this way. She is just like yours , it's just drilled in her head that that is the way it's to be done. I will be following this post bc it sure is aggravating ! They can run in the 1 d without using their body correctly at all . I can't imagine if they did !
They did interval timing at this jackpot.. She was 1.4 seconds slower in her turns than the winner, but yet only got outran by .1.. Her straights, she outran everyone by .8....
So I know its there.. I agree, Frurstrating!!! |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Sounds a lot like a mare I have been working on.
Work on your one rein stops. Make sure she stops absolutely straight and if she pops her hip out bump it back in. Also continue to work on getting her soft laterally...this will help her vertical flexion to get softer when you ask to stop. Ride her in a draw bit a couple times a week to help encourage that softness. Keep her shaped up nice and ask her to trot off, hold that shape and ask her to stop...don't give her nose and then ask for a nice fluid back. Once she feels super soft and light then release. Repeat. Now that she is probably feeling better if her hocks were bothering her now you just need to retrain her a bit. She most likely changed her style to protect herself against pain so now you need to reteach her how to use her body correctly. It will come but it will take time and consistancy. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Some horses need more then a one dose of injections. Sometimes injections don't work.
If the horse is throwing nose up when stopping, I would say a pain issue still
Stifles, hocks, si joints
How did the X-rays look? What grade of lameness was the horse when flexed? Did you block joints to identify the painful area? |
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ND Sweetheart
Posts: 3471
Location: In My Own Dream Land | cheryl makofka - 2015-05-11 10:49 AM Some horses need more then a one dose of injections. Sometimes injections don't work. If the horse is throwing nose up when stopping, I would say a pain issue still Stifles, hocks, si joints How did the X-rays look? What grade of lameness was the horse when flexed? Did you block joints to identify the painful area?
She was graded a .5 when flexed. She has been getting better, slowly. Before injections, you'd ask her to lope and she'd try to give you a concussion.. She no longer does that. She is a very nervous type horse. Second you step on, she prances, even at home. Altho she has started to mellow out after injections. |
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ND Sweetheart
Posts: 3471
Location: In My Own Dream Land | Just Bring It - 2015-05-11 10:45 AM Sounds a lot like a mare I have been working on.
Work on your one rein stops. Make sure she stops absolutely straight and if she pops her hip out bump it back in. Also continue to work on getting her soft laterally...this will help her vertical flexion to get softer when you ask to stop. Ride her in a draw bit a couple times a week to help encourage that softness. Keep her shaped up nice and ask her to trot off, hold that shape and ask her to stop...don't give her nose and then ask for a nice fluid back. Once she feels super soft and light then release. Repeat. Now that she is probably feeling better if her hocks were bothering her now you just need to retrain her a bit. She most likely changed her style to protect herself against pain so now you need to reteach her how to use her body correctly. It will come but it will take time and consistancy.
Part of me thinks she was actually trained this way. I do have a couple videos of her as a 4 yr old and she ran the exact same way..
I'm not saying it isn't something I'm doing.. It could be. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| tThompson - 2015-05-11 10:54 AM
Just Bring It - 2015-05-11 10:45 AM Sounds a lot like a mare I have been working on.
Work on your one rein stops. Make sure she stops absolutely straight and if she pops her hip out bump it back in. Also continue to work on getting her soft laterally...this will help her vertical flexion to get softer when you ask to stop. Ride her in a draw bit a couple times a week to help encourage that softness. Keep her shaped up nice and ask her to trot off, hold that shape and ask her to stop...don't give her nose and then ask for a nice fluid back. Once she feels super soft and light then release. Repeat. Now that she is probably feeling better if her hocks were bothering her now you just need to retrain her a bit. She most likely changed her style to protect herself against pain so now you need to reteach her how to use her body correctly. It will come but it will take time and consistancy.
Part of me thinks she was actually trained this way. I do have a couple videos of her as a 4 yr old and she ran the exact same way..
I'm not saying it isn't something I'm doing.. It could be.
This is so frustrating ! I can imagine the time mine looses in a turn .. But she is just wicked fast ! Mine is 100% sound . Always has been & still does it .. She was started this way .. No body control at all .. Now it's instilled in her head . I want her to turn right so bad ! But I'm about to give up :( it's so hard to change her when she's done it for 5 years .. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | I would also treat her for uclers if she is such a nervous horse. |
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  More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Check into Connie Combs squares exercises. She really focuses on the horses using their hind end which leads to more power and horses not having the soreness issues. |
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ND Sweetheart
Posts: 3471
Location: In My Own Dream Land | Just Bring It - 2015-05-11 11:13 AM
I would also treat her for uclers if she is such a nervous horse.
Already on it.. :)  |
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ND Sweetheart
Posts: 3471
Location: In My Own Dream Land | Thank you! |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| I really need to stick to the squares exercise.. But I'm kinda dumb about it lol I get confused on how to do it at say a lope .. I guess you just lope into the first until you are square at the barrel & stop . What I get confused on is do you stop then square like before the barrel , I guess your rate point , then stop square again to the left of the first barrel when you go in ? I'm sure it's not this difficult lol I need someone to draw me a diagram ha ha . sorry , I'm not trying to steal the thread ! |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| Personally I think your horse is using herself very well. I don't think you are putting her in the right spot, you are pulling her front end into the barrel and asking her to turn a stride early. Driving all the way to the backside will help her keep her momentum and not dump in a turn. Also I would put a bit with no gag and more direct pull on her since she looks to be really light and bendy already. Your horse's style is more of a flat, low, run around and not pivot. Make more runs and drive up into the turn and I bet she'll get snappier in those turns. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| Here is a video of mine.. Her first is terrible .. You can see where she stops her front end & swings her hindquarters .. She's terrible about it ! I always have an inconsistent , wide first bc she goes out of her way to throw her head & front end down .. Instead of rating in there on her rear .. Also has trouble finishing the 3 rd barrel for the same reason .
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LWBPSOniBuE
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FFlmlJh4cGo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gHfZ8QSCfXo |
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More bootie than waist!
Posts: 18425
Location: Riding Crackhead. | Fancy Lass - 2015-05-11 11:30 AM I really need to stick to the squares exercise.. But I'm kinda dumb about it lol I get confused on how to do it at say a lope .. I guess you just lope into the first until you are square at the barrel & stop . What I get confused on is do you stop then square like before the barrel , I guess your rate point , then stop square again to the left of the first barrel when you go in ? I'm sure it's not this difficult lol I need someone to draw me a diagram ha ha . sorry , I'm not trying to steal the thread !
Connie doesn't have you stop before the barrel. Only on the back side of the barrel, stop them square and then move on. Do it at walk/trot/lope/gallop. I don't do it all the time but if I feel my mare isn't finishing her turns I revert back to Connies drills. |
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| MeepMeep - 2015-05-11 11:45 AM
Personally I think your horse is using herself very well. I don't think you are putting her in the right spot, you are pulling her front end into the barrel and asking her to turn a stride early. Driving all the way to the backside will help her keep her momentum and not dump in a turn. Also I would put a bit with no gag and more direct pull on her since she looks to be really light and bendy already. Your horse's style is more of a flat, low, run around and not pivot. Make more runs and drive up into the turn and I bet she'll get snappier in those turns.
Agree with this. I don't think it is so much swinging her rear out, but her front end is stalling out. Keep her front end moving by driving deeper into the turns.
Edited by MO gal 2015-05-11 12:09 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 113
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There is nothing wrong with the way this horse runs. It looks like a timing and jockey issue to me. That is a nice horse. Not all horses "rate on their rear" or sit and drive on their hind end. Build to her strengths instead of trying to change her style. Too much energy is put into trying to mold these horses instead focusing on strengthening their style. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 559
| MeepMeep - 2015-05-11 12:09 PM
There is nothing wrong with the way this horse runs. It looks like a timing and jockey issue to me. That is a nice horse. Not all horses "rate on their rear" or sit and drive on their hind end. Build to her strengths instead of trying to change her style. Too much energy is put into trying to mold these horses instead focusing on strengthening their style.
She starts dropping her front end on me half way to the first . So how do I fix the drop .. She can run , but she doesn't always rate properly resulting in wide barrels . She's didn't even know how to back @ 6 yrs old .. Her whoa was terrible .. I have her much better now but she still won't give you her face vertically willingly . She'll bend laterally all day long . I'm trying not to change her style so much bc I realize I'm just picking at her . But ive had her 2 yrs now with no change |
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Veteran
Posts: 113
| I don't see her dropping her front end going to the 1st |
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