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 Veteran
Posts: 287
 
| So we were at a 4h show the other day and during the gaming my daughter was asked to stop her horse in the arena, acknowledge the judge and then begin her pattern. her horse is a finished seasoned jr rodeo horse that she was taking there to just sharpen up his pattern at speed.
I have a few issues with this. I think it is a really good way to start alley issues in finished horses. IMO asking them to stop and wait for the judge to acknowledge them is more unsafe than allowing them to progress in with contolled forward motion.
When I called our head 4h honcho here to ask about getting the rule changed, she didn't seem to agree with me. I asked her how many of the people on these committees actually rode, competed and trained barrel horse to actually have knowledge and experience in this area. So anyways, I have to submit an email stating why i feel this way. I am curious what everyone's thought are on here?
I feel asking a finished horse to stop and wait in the "hot zone" for a judge to acknowledge the rider can and will cause gate issues and other behavioral issues. I think controlled forward motion is safer. What are everyone's thoughts? |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| I agree with you and had the same thing happen to my daughter. It did seem to depend on which county you vompeteing on. Our county had a lot of jr rodeo kids and the walk in rule was not really applied, but on the next county it was enforced rather aggressively. We just didn't go back. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1367
Location: mi | Our county makes the kids dismount before leaving the ring. Thankfully most of the kids are riding their morning pleasure horses and the ones on actual barrel horses are older teens that can handle the situation. But yet another silly 4H rule.
I can see waiting for a signal from the judge before proceeding but you at least need to be able to keep moving in a lope or trot circle until they are ready not stop and stand.
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Veteran
Posts: 287
| Well on one hand, yes, I did tell her we didn't have to go back or next time she could take her green mare where it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But then again, even with a green horse you don't want them to lose forward motion cause that will become a bad habit and lead to evasiveness. The head lady just didn't seem to understand THAT is a safety issue!
I'm a 4h leader in our county and not afraid to rock the boat to get things changed. I appreciate the opinions from you cause it will help me word my email and presentation |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
 
Location: ND | While I don't agree with the rule I don't think it's a big deal either. I grew up running a lot of places that ran with a closed gate, you could not start your run until the gate was latched. I had a dang good barrel horse & she was HOT but I could also keep her perfectly under control as long as I needed to. |
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Veteran
Posts: 287
| ajs2002 - 2015-06-01 12:10 PM
Our county makes the kids dismount before leaving the ring. Thankfully most of the kids are riding their morning pleasure horses and the ones on actual barrel horses are older teens that can handle the situation. But yet another silly 4H rule.
I can see waiting for a signal from the judge before proceeding but you at least need to be able to keep moving in a lope or trot circle until they are ready not stop and stand.
Exactly. Or even wait for acknowledgement from the judge before entering the gate, entering in controlled forward motion and starting pattern. Acknowledgement before leaving arena. Then horse doesn't learn bad habits and they eneter and exit in a safe fashion. No one around here seems to get that ??
Edited by wickedstepmother 2015-06-01 2:16 PM
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 Midget Lover
Location: Kentucky | I don't really agree that they need to acknowledge a judge in a speed event. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| I don't know a lot about 4H, but I will just play devils advocate and say, I get that it's probably a safety issue. If you don't want to have to follow that rule, there are plenty of associations that don't require it, and you are free to go run there.
I have shown at a couple different types of associations. The barrel centered shows (NBHA, rodeo, etc) of course don't require this stuff. I also spent a great deal of time showing at an open show association where they had every event, not just speed events. This also meant there were plenty of people walking around, right by the gate. For safety reasons, their rule is, you cannot run in the arena from farther than 20 feet from the gate, and you must stop inside the arena with a closed gate.
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Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | On another note I compete in mounted shooting, if you start your course before the judge has given you the ok to go you receive a 60 second run......so i guess that's not to different than the 4-H rule! Our shooting horses walk into the arena quietly and have absolutely no issue keeping calm until the judge signals, sometimes even waiting for a small balloon to be relplaced before starting a run. I have no tollerence for a horse that can't walk into an arena & keep his head for a few seconds. |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11493
Location: 31 lengths farms | I grew up having to do this so for me its not a big deal. You can always choose not to go to those with rules that dont' fit your horse. |
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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | We have always had to acknowledge the judge before starting our pattern here in Oregon. Although we never had to be at a complete stop, just wait for the nod from the judge. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| Is this a new rule?
If it is not a new rule than it shouldn't have been a shocker that it would be enforced at some point.
If it were my daughter and horse, I would not go back. I have a mare that will walk into the arena like it's no big deal but as soon as she is in you would be hard pressed to get her to stop and stand still.
If your daughter wants to continue to go, I would take the younger mare. There is nothing wrong with making a horse stop and wait before running to the first barrel. I can also understand why it would create and issue for a seasoned horse who knows it's job. |
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Veteran
Posts: 287
| cowgirl_3207 - 2015-06-01 1:31 PM
We have always had to acknowledge the judge before starting our pattern here in Oregon. Although we never had to be at a complete stop, just wait for the nod from the judge.
We in Washington, on the border of Oregon actually. This particular judge I believe is from Oregon made the kids stop, then took her sweet time about it.
And yes we could choose to not go back, and honestly probably won't at this place for many reasons. But my issuue is the actual rule. I think it needs to be changed. They change rules in the horse dept every year here, there is no reason I shouldn't petition to have it changed if I don't agree with it. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1096
| Here you are made to WALK through the gate completely. It's kind of hard for my finished horses because they are bopping around. Needless to say we are just not going to do it. They DQ you for those things. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Murphy - 2015-06-01 2:15 PM
I don't really agree that they need to acknowledge a judge in a speed event.
I agree completely. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2931
Location: North Dakota | I don't see a problem with it.
I attend many gaming shows that have a "no running start" rule. One show even requires you to STOP your horse after the gate has closed (after you have entered) before you can start your run. Another show says your horse needs to be walking as you come through the gate, and cannot start your run until the gate is closed.
I have trained my horses as such. I can send them flying from the back 40 at a rodeo, or I can walk them into the arena like a western pleasure horse before we start. I am very particular about my body language and my verbal cues. They know exactly what I want them to do.
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 Saint Stacey
| 4H is all about safety and proper horsemanship. It's geared more towards the showing end than the timed event end. We have the same rule here in CO about walking through a gate. If you have a rodeo horse, maybe 4H speed events aren't the venue for you. They won't change the rule for a handful of barrel horses when the masses can walk through a gate. Sorry but that is simply the fact. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| My county will disqualify you if you do not remain behind the timer line until the gate is closed and latched. I walk my barrel horse in and turn her straight back into the gate, and we wait until that gate touches her nose, I see it's latched, then we rollback and haul ass. That is how I keep from getting disqualified, and it has yet to make my horse get gate issues, and we have been doing this for 7 years. It's a safety issue. 4H has it's own realm of rules.
We also can't use any bit or equipment deemed un-necessary or overly harsh by show committee and/or judge....that's a really controversial rule even in the pleasure pen. |
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Veteran
Posts: 287
| Well, I do feel I have a valid basis for discussing it and not just for my daughter cause she could really care less if she runs there again lol. BUT I think it's just as much of a safety pulling those horses up in the hot zone. And I've **** sure fixed my fair share of gate sour horses. I am really good at it actually. But it's because I don't stop their forward motion. It is interesting to hear veryones opinion though and why they feel that way.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| Even at barrel races, I make my mare walk up the alley and hesitate before running. It makes her think about barrels and not about just running. That is how my horse runs best, and I've never gotten a horse alley sour from doing that. |
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