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 Veteran
Posts: 234
 
Location: Oklahoma | So Saturday we re-breed my mare as she didn't check in foal.. My vet lets me know that the semen mobility that we received to breed her was at 40% and has gone down since we bred her the first time. So I figured would call the stallion owner up and let them know and see if they had any insight as to why. Not looking to start a fight right off the bat this lady goes to making me feel this situation is all my fault as why to the mare hasnt took.. She goes to yelling at me saying my vet most not be good at there job, then to saying that it's all my mares fault and that she is a quality enough of. Mare... And many other veriable assaults... My question is what they heck!! I mean I didn't call her looking to complain I just thought if I were a stallion owner that would be something you should know... I mean as someone who is in sales you never ever speak to your customer like that!! I'm buying from you so wouldn't you want to help me in this situation and possibly give me some insigt not just yell at me and see this is all my fault!!
how would you handle this!?
Edited by sam.kappen 2015-06-08 7:11 PM
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 Life Saver
Posts: 10477
Location: MT | I think I would at least have waited to verify whether the mare was in foal before I ever called the stallion owner and pointed fingers. Not sure exactly what you were trying to accomplish by calling. Stallion owners work hard on their end and a whole lot can go wrong between collection and AI'ing the mare that can affect semen quality.
Edited by ruggedchica 2015-06-08 7:40 PM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| Pick another stallion. |
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 A Barrel Of Monkeys
Posts: 12972
Location: Texas | No way would I call the stallion owner over something like this. There are a lot of things that can go wrong w/ shipping. I think you jumped the gun. Sorry. |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I'm going to pick the middle ground here. Due to the fact that I have talked to my vet and she can make a list a mile long of popular stallions that ship like crapola but fail to tell mare owners until they are up to their eye balls in vet bills. Many of these she won't even deal with. It makes her look bad too, because stallion owners are usually going to blame the mare owners vet. (and I do understand there are a ton of poor repro vets out there, I get that). But if I received poor quality semen, and was at a quality vet clinic and didn't have any Fed Ex guys get lost in route, I too would probably want to know what the semen mobility was before it shipped. I think mine was listed with the semen?? But I can't remember. I know too many stallion owners that are full of crap on how well their stallions ship, but things can also happen and perhaps the container didn't cool properly. |
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Veteran
Posts: 234
Location: Oklahoma | I understand that things happen, and was not. Trying to point fingers I just did not like how I was treated at all! You don't talk. To someone how she did she was awful and don't right nasty! I was she surprised how someone who is supposed to be a professional could speak to someone like she did! Only thing I can say is the quality of the seman has gone down with each shipment.. |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
| I've gotten mares in foal with less motility than that, and missed with much better.
I know it's a science, but sometimes I feel the more control we try to exert on the variables the less successful breedings are.
I also have an opinion (and I know what it's worth! lol!) that earlier in the week collections have better motility?
You're not sure yet on the second breed. Maybe the timing was just perfect and 350,000 live sperms (average number at 40%?) were enough to find that egg and fertilize it.
The only time I made a call was on a 25% motility and a $500 shipment. I did get the next shipment free. |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | What did your vet have to say? Was there a mitigating factor with the shipment like a problem with the cool packs or whatever they use? |
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Blessed 
Location: Here | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-08 10:14 PM What did your vet have to say? Was there a mitigating factor with the shipment like a problem with the cool packs or whatever they use?
Remember tone of initial phone call to stallion can set the tone of the whole phone call. Calling stallion owner before you find out if mare is in foal is too much too quick. Also make sure your are completely understanding what your vet is saying. Because if stallion owner calls vet and stories don't match...
And there are always two sides to the story. And if a vet is involved then there are 3 |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 402
Location: Arizona | Thank you, thank you thank you SG. This is crazy. You can't talk sense with these people and now I totally remember why I dont come here anymore.. It is clients like this who call and make accusations before the fact that make any business a nightmare. . I give up on any common sense. I will respectfully withdraw any responses, except the one where we offer to return their breeding fee with conditions.
Edited by wings 2015-06-09 2:16 PM
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I have not hesitated to walk away from stallion owners who treat me poorly, blame my vet or my mare for issues on their end, or are difficult to work with. I have done business (and will continue to do business) with stallion owners that are very helpful and easy to work with and that are willing to make suggestions and offer advice.
As for your specific situation, I might have contacted the stallion owner about the lower motility, but since I have gotten mares in foal with low motility I probably wouldn't be overly concerned about that. Like was mentioned, the tone of the conversation could have been an issue, I know that sometimes I look back at conversations and think, oh man, that didn't come out right! But if I truly feel like my end of the conversation did not warrant the kind of response I received then I would probably walk away from that particular stallion and owner. |
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 Don't Wanna Make This Awkward
Posts: 3106
Location: Texas | wings - 2015-06-08 11:33 PM SG you have hit it right on the nose. I shouldn't even offer a response to this as rediculous as it is, however by the time my husband handed the phone to me he was totally confused and upset that some lady was so verbally rude to him. After the phone call, which was interesting to say the least, and which I had to get loud to even get a word in,
I immediately went to the lab, checked the specs on the stallion's collection and called the Vet. The Vet assured me that the semen was fine. The percent of motility was a little lower than the first shipment, (which had been in excellent condition) but that it all looked good, and was more than adquate to get the mare pregnant with one dose, and that I had sent 2 doses. The vet told me that the client was not very well informed as to the aspects of shipped semen breeding, and that she was brusk and difficult to work with. She also said that everyone up in their country was having trouble getting mares in foal. One other thing the vet said was that the client "Insisted" that the vet deviate from procedure and breed according to her demands.
I always want to do the best job we can to ensure that client's mares get in foal. That is our business. However, If there is a problem with the semen, the vet normally calls so we can intelligently discuss the problem and resolve the matter immediately.
So, SG your are right, in this situation there are 3 sides to this and the vet and I are on the same page.
Are you talking about another situation or are you the stallion owner this post is about?
Anyways, sounds like you handled this very professionally and it sounds to me like a much better option for the vet and stallion owner to be the ones communicating. I'm not very educated on breeding and would never go calling the stallion owner over anything I wasn't 100% sure on.
You have some amazing stallions standing at your place as well |
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 A Gopher's Worst Nightmare
Posts: 5094
Location: Southern Oregon | Breeding mare via shipped semen is a SUPER SCIENCE IMO. Just like in women, there are a million factors to each mare and each breeding. Some are just harder then others. We use to take all of our mares to a BREEDING farm where they specialize in getting mare into foal. Our mares would stay almost an entire month sometimes longer. Stallion owners are busy and stressed this time of year, I would only call on if my vet insisted that I needed too. Im sending good vibes that your mare settles! |
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| sam.kappen - 2015-06-08 7:10 PM
So Saturday we re-breed my mare as she didn't check in foal.. My vet lets me know that the semen mobility that we received to breed her was at 40% and has gone down since we bred her the first time. So I figured would call the stallion owner up and let them know and see if they had any insight as to why. Not looking to start a fight right off the bat this lady goes to making me feel this situation is all my fault as why to the mare hasnt took.. She goes to yelling at me saying my vet most not be good at there job, then to saying that it's all my mares fault and that she is a quality enough of. Mare... And many other veriable assaults... My question is what they heck!! I mean I didn't call her looking to complain I just thought if I were a stallion owner that would be something you should know... I mean as someone who is in sales you never ever speak to your customer like that!! I'm buying from you so wouldn't you want to help me in this situation and possibly give me some insigt not just yell at me and see this is all my fault!!
how would you handle this!?
STRAIGHT FROM THE HORSE'S MOUTH:
"We analyze every collection, and also keep some from every collection to check and/or use ourselves until the next collection day."
SAM .. there is a lot of shipping per the above going on with stallion owners that may have only one or two mares to breed on collection day. Any stallion owner should like to know how their studs are shipping without going into a rage of guilt.
I don't care if you did a billion sperm count ... MOTHER NATURE intended for the mare to get the full ejaculation ... and I will take a good common sense vet over a self defined re-pro specialist any day. .. How many women wishing to get pregnant do you think tells their hubby to just shoot a billion little swimmers and let's see what happens. ... lol
If you don't get a 60cc syringe of less than 24 hour old CS to inseminate .. you are just blowing money out the door.
I always find it interesting that stallion owners and even a lot of mare owners will not realize that all the expenses from stud fees, shipping, vet fees, feeding mare, caring for the foal, training foal, eventing foal expenses are all coming out of the mare owners pocket!! At best a mare owner may see a picture of their foal 4-8 years later if it is winning big time on a studs ad to promote the stud.
Stud farms use mare care as one of their big money makers in ~3 months out of the year!! One of the most used reasons for holding your mare for 30-60-90 days is .. we had to pinch your mare for twins ... Mother Nature again will absorb most twins since there are only 10-15 sets of twins born each year out of 200,000 births.
Dash For Perks in his last three crops here in the states is the only stud that has explicitly told mare owners that his max of mares were 0-4 per day depending on if he ejaculated or not and demanded the mare be at the stud farm for insemination!! .. I was one of the lucky ones to have a mare ready to ovulate on one of his 4 mare days. .... With other stallions it is always the mares problem ... lol
In your case the stud owner has you over a barrel by being insulted that you would let them know of the quality of semen that arrived. Your alternative is to hope your mare got in foal and if your vet told you one thing and then did his PR speech to the stud owner .. CHANGE VETS!!
I do a lot of human comparing when choosing horse studs .. I remind myself of the rare probability of getting an athlete with certain characteristics to the only successful human man stud that gave his get his athletic prowess .... ARCHIE MANNING ... LOL
GOOD LUCK hope your mare took this time ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-06-09 2:44 AM
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Blessed
Location: Here | Wings I think it was very important for your side to be heard |
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Tried and True
Posts: 21185
Location: Where I am happiest | Actually, 40% is not to bad. I am wondering, if this mare has foaled before? was she seminated via A.I.? Or is this her first time being bred via shipped semen? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 316
| I'm sorry but personally I think it should have been handled by the vet. The vet can call the person(s) that collected to ask if there has been something wrong or if the shipment had, had something go on in the process. They are the professionals and can figure out a way to get this handled. The way this happened was he said she said and that always leaves room for blaming and misinterpreting things. |
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 Expert of all Expert...
Location: Arizona | I have found that the first speaker usually sets the tone for a conversation, particularly on the phone or online when facial expression and body language can't be read. Professional and courteous beget professional and courteous, accusatory and confrontational beget defensiveness.
I hope your mare settles. If not, I would wait until you know one way or the other, and then work with my vet first and breeder second to see what to do next.
I also hope that those reading this thread don't let one side of one story impact their opinion of a strong, professional breeding outfit and the all around knowledgeable folks that run it.
Edited by roan critter 2015-06-09 8:59 AM
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | sam.kappen - 2015-06-08 7:10 PM So Saturday we re-breed my mare as she didn't check in foal.. My vet lets me know that the semen mobility that we received to breed her was at 40% and has gone down since we bred her the first time. So I figured would call the stallion owner up and let them know and see if they had any insight as to why. Not looking to start a fight right off the bat this lady goes to making me feel this situation is all my fault as why to the mare hasnt took.. She goes to yelling at me saying my vet most not be good at there job, then to saying that it's all my mares fault and that she is a quality enough of. Mare... And many other veriable assaults... My question is what they heck!! I mean I didn't call her looking to complain I just thought if I were a stallion owner that would be something you should know... I mean as someone who is in sales you never ever speak to your customer like that!! I'm buying from you so wouldn't you want to help me in this situation and possibly give me some insigt not just yell at me and see this is all my fault!!
how would you handle this!?
^This is rather hard to decipher....if you're going to bash someone for being unprofessional, then I'd recommend using spell/grammer check.
My vet would've made the call about mobility (IF they felt like a call was warranted). I'm not sure what you could've hoped to accomplish by calling them at this point? Why not wait until you've checked your mare and know if she's in foal first? There's a million reasons why things might not work out, the timing is tricky. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| I've been breeding mares going on 10 years now. I understand (as much as I can without actually spending the money to collect!) that stallion owners aren't making money on the collections. And I understand that there are also some mare owners who are less than easy to deal with. In the entire time that I've been breeding, I don't think my vet has ever spoken with the stallion owner/breeding farm when we have shipped semen to us (I did send a mare to a breeding facility a couple of times and they handled everything). When I need to ship, I call. The couple of times that my vet asked me to call because of poor quality semen, I made the call. When I've had issues getting my mares to settle, I made the call. And I can say that almost every time me and the owners had a good conversation, they were willing to share their knowledge and work with me. However there have been a couple of owners that I would consider well-known in the barrel industry that left me feeling less than satisfied as a mare owner. Would I come to an online forum and bad-mouth them publicly? No, as that seems pretty unprofessional on my part. As an owner, I have a choice of which stallions to book my mares to, so I simply marked them off of my list for the future. And I'm not saying that I wouldn't share my experience with someone who asks me specifically, but i don't think bringing it to a public forum is the best way to handle the situation. In the OP's defense they did not name names. But I still feel like this situation is probably not being handled the best. |
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