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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
  
Location: North Dakota | My mare had some really bad habits when I bought her 2 years ago. She was ran sore and picked up some bad habits to protect herself such as diving in, throwing her hind end around, pausing before taking off, etc. Well she got most of last year off due to taking care of her body soreness and to just focus on getting her moving her body correctly. She couldn't even lope a correct circle. She would just want to throw her hip around. Well she is nicely broke now and I have taken care of her sorenss (horrible heat cycles, fusing hocks, and bad farrier work). Her patterns are so much smoother, consistent, and confident but every once in awhile she still wants to throw her hind end around the first barrel. She seems to go in, get a tiny bit stiff (wanting to anticipate and drop in too soon) and then on the backside she bends too much in the neck and throws her hind end around instead of keeping her front end moving and her inside hind leg up under her so she can push off coming out. She is getting better about it though. Some runs she does great and others she still throws her hind end so I think I am on the right track I just need to stick with it until it becomes natural for her to turn it correctly.
What are some drills or exercises I can work on to help her learn how to turn correctly? I have been working all right turns with 4 barrels set up in a square, I spiral her (at walk, trot, lope) starting big and bringing her down until I ask her to nearly pivot so her shoulders are moving around her hip instead of her stopping her front and stepping out with the hind end, I have taught her to one rein stop STRAIGHT without stepping out. That was a big one! Whenever I pulled the inside rein her hind end stepped out so teaching her to one rein stop straight really helped her learn that the inside rein does not mean to step out with the hind end. All of that has been helping but I am wondering if there is anything else I could work on to get her driving more with the inside hind leg?
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Counter arc circles and around the barrels. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-22 9:40 PM Counter arc circles and around the barrels.
Thanks. I do a lot of counter arcs. I don't counter arc her around the barrels much though. So should I take her around the barrel like normal and then go around again with her counter arced away to re-itterate keeping that hind end in and then let her turn it normally again? Or how should I use the counter arc around the barrel? |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1035
Location: TN | Look up videos of Molly Powell's one barrel exercise on YouTube. I went to a clinic and I've found this to help. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I would work on circling the barrel at a lope and vary the sizes of the circles around the barrel. Just really get her comfortable circling that barrel and finishing her turn. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 383
| Liana Deweese at deweese barrel horses has great excersises you can look up on her page and I have just recently asked her this exact question- she told me to trot to the barrel go around like normal then counter arc at leaving point and finish the counter arc right back at the rate spot so the horse remembers where to put inside hind leg - dena Kirkpatrick also has some great tips you can pull up  |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | shilohorse - 2015-06-23 12:30 AM Liana Deweese at deweese barrel horses has great excersises you can look up on her page and I have just recently asked her this exact question- she told me to trot to the barrel go around like normal then counter arc at leaving point and finish the counter arc right back at the rate spot so the horse remembers where to put inside hind leg - dena Kirkpatrick also has some great tips you can pull up
I have been doing this as well. Like counter arc coming out and then I sort of figure eight back around and do it again.
Thanks guys! I think we are on the right track I just need to stick with it and be consistent. I am hoping now that she is feeling good she will start to figure it out quicker now. |
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Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Just Bring It - 2015-06-22 9:46 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-22 9:40 PM Counter arc circles and around the barrels. Thanks. I do a lot of counter arcs. I don't counter arc her around the barrels much though. So should I take her around the barrel like normal and then go around again with her counter arced away to re-itterate keeping that hind end in and then let her turn it normally again? Or how should I use the counter arc around the barrel?
I'll counter arc around their turns on the pattern once or twice, then go back through normal. Or not. It depends on the horse. I don't ever double circle a barrel unless they made a mistake tho. I want them confident in their foot placement.
When i counter-arc circles, I start off doing a few steps then putting them back normal, and build it up to an entire circle. It takes a lot of strength to do it right. 2 tracking on a straight line is a good exercise too, but again, takes a lot of strength and flexibility to do it right, so you have to start small and build it up. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-23 8:32 AM Just Bring It - 2015-06-22 9:46 PM Three 4 Luck - 2015-06-22 9:40 PM Counter arc circles and around the barrels. Thanks. I do a lot of counter arcs. I don't counter arc her around the barrels much though. So should I take her around the barrel like normal and then go around again with her counter arced away to re-itterate keeping that hind end in and then let her turn it normally again? Or how should I use the counter arc around the barrel?
When i counter-arc circles, I start off doing a few steps then putting them back normal, and build it up to an entire circle. It takes a lot of strength to do it right. 2 tracking on a straight line is a good exercise too, but again, takes a lot of strength and flexibility to do it right, so you have to start small and build it up.
Thanks! She knows how to counter arc very well. That was one of the very first things I worked on when I got her to help her learn to move correctly and to help correct some bad habits. I know she had to have been broke out well at one point because she went through some top trainers hands but somewhere down the line she got really messed up physically and mentally and no one wanted to take the time she needed. So I started back at square one (actually I think starting a horse from scratch is much easier than correcting one). I added the speed back this year and in our last 7 runs she has won the 1D 5 times, 2nd in the 1D once, and 2nd at our first rodeo of the year. She is a gritty gritty tough mare that is really starting to enjoy her job again but we still have so many places we can take off time. Her 2nd barrel has gotten really consistent and I am so confident on it and that use to be our worst barrel.
I have also been working on half passes. That one has been a bit more difficult for her to get but I want her to be able to really put her body whereever I want whenever I want.
Oh yeah one other thing!! She use to be ran in a tie down which is where a lot of our issues are stemming from. She is still learning how to use her body in a turn without balancing on a tie down. She sometimes still wants to throw her head up hoping to have that tie down there to help her out but she is getting better with each run. She is getting her head down and learning how to really use her body in her turns. She has been a challenge but such a fun one and it has been so rewarding looking at videos of how she use to run to how she runs now. I can't wait to get a nice solid first barrel I can be confident in. :) |
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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | Agree with counter arcs. Helps them keep that inside pivot in and not swinging out. Carol also does a lot of work lunging with the balanced training system and that really keeps them collected and correct. She really works them and I'm not talking about just circles and stops. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Bear - 2015-06-23 12:23 PM Agree with counter arcs. Helps them keep that inside pivot in and not swinging out. Carol also does a lot of work lunging with the balanced training system and that really keeps them collected and correct. She really works them and I'm not talking about just circles and stops.
Thanks. I don't have the balanced training system but I do use a De Gogue (similar to chambon) every once in awhile when round penning to help her use her back and rear correctly and we also do a lot of ground pole work. |
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Location: I am not sure most days | I have the same problem with a gelding I bought ,he was worked sore then allowed to throw his hip out. He even drops hard in the front end when he is weaving the poles. I had to get him real broke also. What I have found at this time is when they throw their hip then over bend it feels like they have lost forward motion but in reality they have lost straitness in the ribcage. (hope this makes sense). I started working squares and really paying attention to the outside ribcage. Chris Cox has a series on RFD and he worked with a reiner and gave a great example of this: When you ask for the corner make sure they are sharp and they do not bend........ I can feel it but I am not sure I am explaining it!! lol Anyway what it will do is force them to use the inside hind.
I tried the spiraling circles but my horse kept taking my pocket away and would try to turn when his shoulder was at the barrel. He is now waiting on me and he is not taking my pocket away since I have started the square drill. I do still spiral doing big squares then small squares but I do the spirals in a square. |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | BJFS - 2015-06-23 1:24 PM I have the same problem with a gelding I bought ,he was worked sore then allowed to throw his hip out. He even drops hard in the front end when he is weaving the poles. I had to get him real broke also. What I have found at this time is when they throw their hip then over bend it feels like they have lost forward motion but in reality they have lost straitness in the ribcage. (hope this makes sense). I started working squares and really paying attention to the outside ribcage. Chris Cox has a series on RFD and he worked with a reiner and gave a great example of this: When you ask for the corner make sure they are sharp and they do not bend........ I can feel it but I am not sure I am explaining it!! lol Anyway what it will do is force them to use the inside hind.
I tried the spiraling circles but my horse kept taking my pocket away and would try to turn when his shoulder was at the barrel. He is now waiting on me and he is not taking my pocket away since I have started the square drill. I do still spiral doing big squares then small squares but I do the spirals in a square.
Yes. I have done a few squares but not near enough! She is the one I was hoping to get to a Connie Combs clinic last spring but at the time she was still pretty sore so I rode a different mare. I really need to crack down on my squares more with her. I know exaclty what you are talking about with losing straightness in the ribcage. Thanks! |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I like Martha Josey's 'funnel barrel' work, which is 8 barrels. Youtube it if you don't know what it is. It really fixes a lot of different problems. |
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Location: I am not sure most days | All great ideas. and yes Sharon Camarillo explains these in her book. I wanted to give an update from using my squares exercise: I went to a local jackpot Tuesday and I just loped this horse through the barrel pattern in an exhibition and I had a lot of compliments from various people. He stayed strait and he waited on me to ask him to turn and he did not lose his backend or his ribcage(woohoo). The reason I say this is and, I think you will understand completely, is like a lot of people have suggested I spent a lot of time doing spirals and reverse acrcs on this horse and while they helped, he still drifted toward the barrel in the straits so he had no pocket at the barrel and he would start the turn too soon causing us to bow off the backside or rainbow to the next barrel or, if I managed to have enough pocket it was because I had to hold him off and then he would drop on the front end, sling his hip out and overbend in the ribcage. So I started trying to use my little brain (lol) and tried these more out of frustration than smartness and voila!!! Progress!!! 
I will also add that at the corner I had to stop this horse and reverse arc him OR make him spin in a very tight circle and come around with his outside rib, this depended on whether I was going left or right and whether or not the hip was out or the rib. It goes back to that sharpness at the corner. I was just excited because all of this has been coming together at the house but I have not hauled him to other places. Still a long way to go.
Hope this helps yours! |
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Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | BJFS - 2015-06-25 2:46 PM All great ideas. and yes Sharon Camarillo explains these in her book. I wanted to give an update from using my squares exercise: I went to a local jackpot Tuesday and I just loped this horse through the barrel pattern in an exhibition and I had a lot of compliments from various people. He stayed strait and he waited on me to ask him to turn and he did not lose his backend or his ribcage(woohoo). The reason I say this is and, I think you will understand completely, is like a lot of people have suggested I spent a lot of time doing spirals and reverse acrcs on this horse and while they helped, he still drifted toward the barrel in the straits so he had no pocket at the barrel and he would start the turn too soon causing us to bow off the backside or rainbow to the next barrel or, if I managed to have enough pocket it was because I had to hold him off and then he would drop on the front end, sling his hip out and overbend in the ribcage. So I started trying to use my little brain (lol) and tried these more out of frustration than smartness and voila!!! Progress!!!
I will also add that at the corner I had to stop this horse and reverse arc him OR make him spin in a very tight circle and come around with his outside rib, this depended on whether I was going left or right and whether or not the hip was out or the rib. It goes back to that sharpness at the corner. I was just excited because all of this has been coming together at the house but I have not hauled him to other places. Still a long way to go.
Hope this helps yours!
Thanks for the update! Yeah I have got her figured out on 2 and 3 and feel pretty confident on those two but 1st still isn't very consistent yet. Last night though she rocked at the jackpot!!! 3 tenths faster than everyone. But she seems to like that arena. This is the 2nd time I have ran there and both times she has had beautiful 1st barrels. They could still be a little snappier but definitely much smoother than at some other arenas. Not sure if it is the ground or the setup.
It sounds like I have been doing a lot of the same as you....working on getting that snap at the corner. I have rolled her away and spun her in all depending on what I was feeling at the moment. It has definitely helped but like I said that first barrel is the tricky one for us and I think adding in some square exercises will help. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4553
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Love the suggestions.Any more I don't use the barrel unless patterning. Instead of circling the barrel and counter arc I do squares. I trail ride and counter arc around bushes trees and mail boxes and trash cans sometimes doing a figure eight. That way it just isn't the barrel when I ask for it. It's more random. |
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BHW's Simon Cowell
Location: The Saudia Arabia of Wind Energy, Western Oklahoma | When I have one like that I use more outside rein. Try to stiffen them up a little. I also would use my outside foot to hold them in.
Edited by ksjackofalltrades 2015-06-26 11:34 AM
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | ksjackofalltrades - 2015-06-26 11:33 AM When I have one like that I use more outside rein. Try to stiffen them up a little. I also would use my outside foot to hold them in.
Great advice. I was trying to think of the words. I used to over emphasize the bend and the counter arcing and really elevating the shoulder, but I have changed to a less bending approach and tried to emulate how a horse turns naturally as they would if they were running in the pasture, which is not shoulder elevated, nose in, and butt down necessarily. I want the hip under my horse and I sure don't want him dumping in the front, but I want a nice balanced turn that is as natural a movement as possible for a horse to execute. The path of least resistance. I used to school and school a horse to get that shoulder up, but I found that it made some of my horses anticipate more. |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 371
| Does your mare two track? If so when you get to your rate spot on the first PUSH her hip to the barrel and two track her until you get to your turn spot and let her turn. If her hip is in she cant drop her shoulder or sling her hip around. You can do this at a walk, trot, and eventually lope. I would do it on all 3 barrels every time you slow work her. It will become a good habit. |
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