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Member
Posts: 27
| HELP! My barrel mare becomes psychotic, out of control, and dangerous when on and only on Lasix. I have run her off of the Lasix, and she behaved perfectly, without any problems. Unfortunately, she had her second bleeding episode in two years so I am forced to run her on it, but I am to the point of not wanting to run her because of her hurrendous behavior on Lasix. I also use Flair Strips. She is a consistent, top notch 1D barrel horse. I will also add she has yearly injections, pain is not the cause of this problem. My question is, are the any calming products any of you use that work well with a lasixed horse?? Feed supplements are also not an option, she won't eat anything. It has to be an injection or paste. I am DESPERATE! |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
  
| http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid...
Do a google search and old threads from here will come up. The horses I've seen not handle lasix well all had other issues causing the problem. |
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Member
Posts: 27
| As stated, she has absolutely ZERO problems when off Lasix. I ran her Friday off Lasix and she was perfectly sane, then Lasixed her Saturday (as I noticed coughs after her run Friday, but no bleed) and she acted terribly as described above. I am certain it is the Lasix causing this issue as she's had many runs off of it with ZERO behavior issues. I tried the Lasix two years ago with the first bleed and she was equally as psychotic, so I stopped using it and was lucky enough for her not to bleed out until recently. Not running her on it is no longer an option so I'm just asking if anyone also pairs a good calming product with the Lasix. I will also add her performance/runs are still 1D and fast she isn't running up the wall or doing anything out of the ordinary, it is not effecting her performance, only her behavior. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| The other issues I was talking about was actually scaring and infection in the lungs/throat preventing the horse from breathing well because it had been bleeding so much. One vet explained that with the lasix it made the horse extremely sensitive to the pain in his throat and lungs....but another vet said that wouldn't have made a difference. I've never seen a horse actually have problems on lasix but i've heard from others that it did make their horse ten foot tall and bullet proof...just never seen one where it wasn't an underlying problem causing this.
Anyways the thread I posted has some alternatives and a google search will pull up more threads.
My advice is go to a place that can scope with a treadmill and know to what degree the previous bleeding affected the throat and if scaring is present.
Oh the above horse had bleed once out of the nose with the owner and the owner never scoped or treated. The horse is now not performance sound. He had a lung infection that almost killed him and severe scaring.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-07-06 7:19 PM
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Member
Posts: 27
| She's been scoped and checked by several vets (my horses are probably over-vetted if anything) no scarring, additionally when she bled we treated with antibiotics. |
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Member
Posts: 36
| have someone with the Equi-Resp do the 8 day bleeder treatment on her. I just did one on a horse for a girl and she ran this weekend and no bleeding. The Equi-Resp helps make the lungs healthy and strong to reduce the risk of bleeding. |
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Veteran
Posts: 139
Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada | I suggest you ask your vet if the article in the horse indicating omega three supplements using the new algae products truly help horses with inflammatory airway disease ( and maybe by association bleeders). I think your horses diet would benefit from the omega three supplemenst based on algae from my experience at least as a support.
Also, lasix removes electrolytes and water and may ahve its main effect by simply reducing weight aside from its lung effects. Ask your vet if perhaps supplementing with magnesium amy help as recent research shows a 1/3rd decrease in fear response if magnesium is supplemented at 10 grams a day above noromal levels and calcium levels are maintained. I am not a vet, but wonder if perhaps your horse loses some of the highly available ionized magnesium and even calcium when using lasix and then becomes hyper. Maybe just add back the magnseium and make sure calcium is in the ratio of as low as 1:1 to 2.5-3 to 1 to the magnesium level.
Something is affecting the horse differently and this fits but may be comletely wrong as other issues may be the cause for sure.
Consult your vet. Ok it is a hassle but do not do this unless the vet thinks it makes sense , I am not saying it is the cause but just using cowboy logic?
Cheers,
Coastal Rider
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| Just to clarify...you ran on Friday, no lasix, no bleeding out, no problems but coughing afterwards then on Saturday, lasix and craziness? I will guarantee she bled on Friday but not visible to you hence the psycho behavior. I've had 2 bleeders, one bad and one mild. I NEVER randomly pick and choose when I use the lasix. It doesn't work that way. It's probably too late now but I'd get her scoped and get her on some antibiotics, turn her out for 30 days and let her heal. |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | I've used Lasix and did not have these effects. Have you been using it consistently? Sometimes it takes a while to get the dosage correct - and time out you give it. If all that fails, I know people have used Kentucky Red and/or Guanabenz for bleeders. |
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Expert
Posts: 4766
Location: Bandera, TX | Try using some guanabenz to drop the BP before the next run. But if she bled you better be on antibiotics now... |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | brbergquist - 2015-07-06 7:10 PM As stated, she has absolutely ZERO problems when off Lasix. I ran her Friday off Lasix and she was perfectly sane, then Lasixed her Saturday (as I noticed coughs after her run Friday, but no bleed) and she acted terribly as described above. I am certain it is the Lasix causing this issue as she's had many runs off of it with ZERO behavior issues. I tried the Lasix two years ago with the first bleed and she was equally as psychotic, so I stopped using it and was lucky enough for her not to bleed out until recently. Not running her on it is no longer an option so I'm just asking if anyone also pairs a good calming product with the Lasix. I will also add her performance/runs are still 1D and fast she isn't running up the wall or doing anything out of the ordinary, it is not effecting her performance, only her behavior.
Horses don't always bleed out so that you can see it...Also, the coughing could be a respiratory infection which would cause her to panic when you're trying to run her. Please slow down and listen to your horse instead of trying to mask the problem with a "calming" product.
Just because she's been "injected" doesn't mean that she isn't in pain somewhere. How much Lasix are you giving her? ...How long before your run? Are you giving it IV? Are you giving her electrolytes after to help her system recover from the dehydration? |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I think animal element makes a paste for a pre run thing. There's also a bunch of pastes made for pre run for bleeding. I wonder if one of those would do the trick so you don't have to lasix? Total health enhancement might make a powder to help you. You could always mix a powder with water and force it down her lol |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 547
Location: Greencastle PA | I all so run on Lasix I have not had any issuse, how much do you give and how many hours out before you run ? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 359
Location: BETWEEN HOT FLASHES AND GERITOL | LASIX'S CAUSED MINE TO BE AN IDIOT ALSO, I JUST RODE HIM THRU IT AND HE FINALLY CHILLED OUT ON IT. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 618
| It's not the lasix causing the behavior but the fear of suffocation while running bc they've been doing undetected for so long hence alley refusal and other naughty behavior. Bleeders do not always bleed out and often bleed long before it's ever discovered. How long had it been before Friday that you ran her? If she coughed following her run I'm willing to bet she bled. My mild bleeder never bled out I only discovered it bc he sneezed in trailer on way home and I found blood splatter all over the trailer wall. Please have her checked by a vet ASAP or your going to create more damage mentally and physically. |
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 Expert
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I run both of mine of Lasix. My sorrel even runs on 6-7cc....a lot. I dont think that he feels great on it....kinda chills him out. He acutally fires harder when hes not on it...but bleeds with anything less....scarring from the track. My dun horse on the other hand will get jacked at 2cc in the vein. I am not sure why the difference but just like with people they can be affected differently. I give his in the muscle now....and it helps. If I have to give his in the vein...which I think is more effective then I stack with an oral calmer and it seems to do the trick. Make sure that if you are giving in the vein you are giving in the right side of the neck as to not hit the jugular vein and/or drawing back very dark blood. Light red/pink blood means you are in the wrong vein and will affect one tremendously.
Edited by MOTIVATED 2015-07-07 2:45 PM
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| My horse was insane on lasix also. I refuse to use it when I started to try and use it constantly and my horse got worse. I used the flair strips and also used some different supplement. |
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  Snake Charmer
Posts: 1632
Location: Texas | Put her on XBL powder by finish line. There's no drugs in it, only natural stuff to strengthen the capalary walls. I'd try this before putting her on yet another drug. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| rachellyn80 - 2015-07-07 11:38 AM
brbergquist - 2015-07-06 7:10 PM As stated, she has absolutely ZERO problems when off Lasix. I ran her Friday off Lasix and she was perfectly sane, then Lasixed her Saturday (as I noticed coughs after her run Friday, but no bleed) and she acted terribly as described above. I am certain it is the Lasix causing this issue as she's had many runs off of it with ZERO behavior issues. I tried the Lasix two years ago with the first bleed and she was equally as psychotic, so I stopped using it and was lucky enough for her not to bleed out until recently. Not running her on it is no longer an option so I'm just asking if anyone also pairs a good calming product with the Lasix. I will also add her performance/runs are still 1D and fast she isn't running up the wall or doing anything out of the ordinary, it is not effecting her performance, only her behavior.
Horses don't always bleed out so that you can see it...Also, the coughing could be a respiratory infection which would cause her to panic when you're trying to run her. Please slow down and listen to your horse instead of trying to mask the problem with a "calming" product.
Just because she's been "injected" doesn't mean that she isn't in pain somewhere. How much Lasix are you giving her? ...How long before your run? Are you giving it IV? Are you giving her electrolytes after to help her system recover from the dehydration?
Please listen to this advice....
If you ran once without it she could have scarred then....
If your horses is a bleeder and you run without lasix they are bleeding internally. |
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Regular
Posts: 71
| brbergquist - 2015-07-06 6:19 PM
HELP! My barrel mare becomes psychotic, out of control, and dangerous when on and only on Lasix. I have run her off of the Lasix, and she behaved perfectly, without any problems. Unfortunately, she had her second bleeding episode in two years so I am forced to run her on it, but I am to the point of not wanting to run her because of her hurrendous behavior on Lasix. I also use Flair Strips. She is a consistent, top notch 1D barrel horse. I will also add she has yearly injections, pain is not the cause of this problem. My question is, are the any calming products any of you use that work well with a lasixed horse?? Feed supplements are also not an option, she won't eat anything. It has to be an injection or paste. I am DESPERATE!
I use Kentucky red and lasix on my horse. Kentucky red works - if they start bleeding it makes clot faster.
You might could try that alone. You can do 2cc night before and 5cc 4 hours out IV.
Maybe try some chlorapromazine to help keep the heart rate low to reduce the chances of a bleed. My vet told me All this information.
I have a friend that uses Pozzi relax and it helps keep her horse calm.
Avoid Bute as it can thin blood.
Make sure your horse is in the best shape possible. |
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