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 Expert
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| This will be the first time I soak my oats! LOL My vet says horses cant process whole oats but I know with good teeth they can just fine, ANyway, a lot of race trainers soak and even cook them.. How does everyone do it? 12 hours cold water? |
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Extreme Veteran
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| I've never soaked plain oats. I have had to soak feed that sad pelleted mixed with oats and I did that for 12 hours and I didn't see a change in the oats so I'm not sure what the benefit of it would be. |
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 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | To cook them, they use a heater element and place it down in the bucket of oats. Takes a while to cook them, but dang they smell good!
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Your vet is for lack of a better word, wrong. I am unaware of any benefit to soaking oats.
I have found vets, over the years, to not be the best source of feeding and nutrition advice. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| total performance - 2015-07-08 8:11 AM
To cook them, they use a heater element and place it down in the bucket of oats. Takes a while to cook them, but dang they smell good!
Funny you say that!!! I always Wet down my feed with water before I give it. Mainly for my horse with breathing issues. But in winter I use warm water. My colt off the track LOVESSSSSSS that. I bet its what he got at the track... |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | As long as the hindgut is working properly to digest whole oats and retrieve the full nutriotional value, then it should be fine. If the hind gut is not working effieciently, the horse will not absorb the nutrients and get the full value of anything you're feeding, oats or otherwise. Address the inflammation in the hindgut and get it working properly and you won't have any trouble. No need to soak or cook, but like total performance said, they sure do smell good!
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| My thoughts exactly. And I bet it has a lot to do with teeth as well. If horses are chewing with good teeth then you have cracked oats by the time it reaches the stomach to!
ANyone want to comment on the whole Oat/Ulcer controversy? SOme say whole oats are excellent for the hind gut, and increase saliva so awesome for gastric ulcers. And others say its the worst thing you can give a horse. lol There has got to be an answer. Both opinions from expertly licensed Equine nutritionists. Which scares me a little because doctors for humans are probably the same way. lol |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | The more processed they are the less nutrional value to them .
I add warm water to my feed to add fluid to gut.. i never soak or anything.. with beet pulp Ill add water and sit for a few minutes but thats it. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after. |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 10:48 AM Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key. Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe. As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe. The philosophy I believe Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts). With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions. On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
This vet has helped me get a horse right that 2 other vets had advised may not ever compete again. Through following his direction I have a horse who is finally healthy and no longer on any type of ulcer treatment through following his suggestion. Prior to this, even while on long term doeses of Omeprazole, Ranitidine, or Gastroplus, he was very uncomfortable and irritable even when simply touched through the hind stomach area (like where a back cinch goes). I have also dealt with very serious respiratory issues that were non responsive to Ventipulmin, Dexamethasone, Prednisone, or even inhaled steroids. Now after following Dr. Schell's program, this same horse is free of any medications, is back to competing with no cough or respiratory issues, and he curls his lip and moves over to me for me to scratch him in the same area he used to try to kick me for touching. The respiratory success is awesome, but the other changes in this horse as far as attitude and overall comfort level is what has been truly amazing! The images below show the physical changes to this colt in 30 days....the respiratory success is the bonus! That's all I need to know, and he's performed the research to back up this theory.
https://nouvelleresearch.com/index.php/articles/385-leaky-gut-syndrome-health-soundness
If my discussion with him regarding what I was currently feeding, here is his response: The feed is not bad, but there are some concerns from my perspective. One of the biggest things that I look for is whole food supplying the nutrient load. This means that if we are looking for magnesium, it is coming from food sources (as an example). If you look at the list of ingredients, towards the mid section, you will see all of the artificial ingredients that are added...magnesium, zinc, calcium, vitamin E...the list goes on and on. This means that the zinc or magnesium your horse is getting is in the artificial form, not natural or whole food. Second, we have a lot of probiotics added to the feed. Saccharomyces is okay, which is brewer's yeast, but then we have others such as lactobacillus being added. The lactobacillus is one species we are seeing overgrown in our research project and in many other horses with clinical problems tying back to the gut. I don't like these probiotics, as I feel they are possibly contributing, but then again, I am biased due to research.
And lastly, in regard to high grain diets, stress, and ulcer treatments, this is what the research is showing in his clinic: We did that study this past spring evaluating fecal bacterial levels in horses, mainly focusing on easy keepers etc, then making a connection with inflammation and associated conditions. I requested some samples from actively racing TB's and received about 9, which were not part of the study. I evaluated them and the bacterial counts were actually higher than the easy keepers, but the real interesting thing was that the overall bacterial population was reduced compared to normal. When you factor in the stress, commercial diets, ulcer meds and NSAIDs that these guys are on, it all clicks. The diet and stress contribute to the overgrowth of bad bacteria, and the ongoing use of the ulcer meds actually changes the pH to the point where normal good bacteria have a hard time thriving. Throw into this that in human research, the ulcer meds are connected with decreased nutrient absorption. When you combine that with inflammation, leaky gut and poor nutrient assimilation...it is a recipe for disaster. Bone fractures, tendon injuries...all tied into poor magnesium, calcium absorption and inflammation. EIPH linked back to inflammation and acidic body pH, linked back to the gut.
Edited by Herbie 2015-07-08 11:09 AM
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Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs |  |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | I've learned more in the last six months than I've learned in a lifetime of owning horses. Vets don't typically know feed...many of them don't even understand the digestive process. They sure don't know the feed manufacturing process!
Here's a good article: http://en.engormix.com/MA-equines/nutrition/articles/horse-feeding-myths-misconceptions-t1132/141-p0.htm |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Normal horses do process oats.. your vet is wrong .to the original question.. |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| THanks for all of the great information!!!! Its amazing how little vets get in way of nutrition and feeding. lol You would think it would be basic. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Herbie, I like the way your vet thinks! |
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 Good Grief!
Posts: 6343
Location: Cap'n Joan Rotgut.....alberta | I would be worried about it rotting.....i feed whole oats......and i was reading my old horse herbal book the other day and it made the statement that whole oats actually helps ulcers...lol...first thing i thought boy oh boy the peeps on bhw would have a heart attack....m |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| Bibliafarm - 2015-07-08 11:44 AM
The more processed they are the less nutrional value to them .
I add warm water to my feed to add fluid to gut.. i never soak or anything.. with beet pulp Ill add water and sit for a few minutes but thats it.
^^^ this
We feed whole oats and alfalfa if one is lacking or comes in for training with less body score than we like we will add fat in the form of flax, rice bran, or soy meal.
Ideally I would love to have a mill to run them through and bust them up but that is very time consuming for as many as we have in the barn. I know race trainers that do this and they have a full time hand that takes care of this job. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| mruggles - 2015-07-08 1:08 PM
I would be worried about it rotting.....i feed whole oats......and i was reading my old horse herbal book the other day and it made the statement that whole oats actually helps ulcers...lol...first thing i thought boy oh boy the peeps on bhw would have a heart attack....m
I have talked to vets that say this is true and many big time race trainers believe this info as well. The main ingredient in succeed is actually oat oil and oat flour. It is believed by some nutritionalists and vets that it is one of the few things that can actually heal hind gut ulcers.
When all the cattle med scares started happening we switched to oats and alfalfa and never looked back. Improvement was seen in every single one of our horses within 3 weeks no joke. Top line improvement, hair coat, hoof growth, and two ulcer management horses seemed to improve more.
I should also add the internal med expert at Rood and Riddle recommends oats and alfalfa over any other feed. Natural as possible.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-07-08 12:24 PM
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| cheryl makofka - 2015-07-08 11:48 AM
Since horses can founder off of oats alone, moderation is key.
Neighbours years ago had horses get into the grain bin, one needed to be euthanized as the founder was so severe.
As for the oat controversy, it all depends on what philosophy you believe.
The philosophy I believe
Is oats are a fermentable grain, in the hind gut where the fermenting takes place, this causes the hind gut to become more acidic killing all the normal bacteria also causing the formations of ulcers (this is long term usage and high amounts).
With the shift in ph in the hind gut the horse releases endotoxins into the blood stream which causes inflammation in the body especially in the feet causing founder in the rare occasions.
On a side note and I don't know how to explain it but I have one horse who will eat her pellets at home, but when hauling she will go off of her pellets and only eat oats, she has been treated for ulcers numerous times, and is on ulcer meds the day before, the day of, and day after.
Under stress she probably got relief from the oats. They probably helped with whatever hind gut issues she was having...just a thought.
One more thing I wanna add is that be very careful your source of oats. Make sure the mill your getting them from is NOT running them through the mill to "rinse" the mill out after mixing cattle meds!! |
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 Shoot Yeah
Posts: 4273
Location: Where you need a paddle... Oregon! | mruggles - 2015-07-08 12:08 PM
I would be worried about it rotting.....i feed whole oats......and i was reading my old horse herbal book the other day and it made the statement that whole oats actually helps ulcers...lol...first thing i thought boy oh boy the peeps on bhw would have a heart attack....m
Interesting.
I posted the question on here months ago about oats and ulcers and it dropped like a lead balloon. lol. I went ahead and switched her and I added Renew Gold also. She looks good. I haven't been competing so I'm not sure how she would have done under stress.
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