|
|
 Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
  
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | I've always just used a transfer report when buying or selling. Anyone use both? Curious as we just sold a horse. We did give a transfer report, do we also need a bill of sale? |
|
| |
|
 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
 
| I have used both before... It can cover your butt a little more. The one bill of sale I had was no returns, exchanges, etc and that I had first refusal right. |
|
| |
|
 The Bird Lady
Posts: 6440
Location: The end of the Earth, SE AR | Sales contract and transfer report.
No contract, no sale + No transfer no sale.
Too many bad stories on BHW about people having major issues after buying or selling a horse without a contract. |
|
| |
|
 Professional Amateur
Posts: 6750
Location: Oklahoma | I always use a Horse Purchase Agreement ("HPA") and whatever transfer is needed for the association the horse is registered with. The HPA sets out the payment terms. Also discusses if a person is having a "Pre-Purchase" (Soundness) exam performed or waiving the exam. I've been a paralegal for 25 years and always use the HPA when selling a horse for myself or my clients.
|
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | I've done both ways, never had a problem even when I did have a BIll of Sale. |
|
| |
|
  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | I don't normally use a bill of sale. If I'm selling a young horse on payments, I have a contract and rarely let the horse go off the property before full payment is made. Then when the sale is complete. They get the papers & transfer when they pick up the horse. A bill of sale hasn't been a big part of horse sale or purchase for me. I think other areas it might mean more. Just as a brand inspection or coggins has different meaning to other states/regions. |
|
| |
|
Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | No payments, paid in full with papers and transfer in hand. |
|
| |
|
 Party Girl
Posts: 12293
Location: Buffalo, Wyoming | I use both (unless horse is grade). I always have the seller and buyer sign 2 Bill of Sales. One for each of their records. |
|
| |
|
 The Vaccinator
Posts: 3810
Location: Slipping down the slope of old age. Boo hoo. | I never sell without a Bill of Sale which describes all the terms of the sale. A transfer just transfers the registration papers/ownership of the horse while a Bill of Sale is more of a legal-type document covering all the terms, price, payment, guarantees or not, etc., that the Buyer and Seller agree to and is signed by both parties (and good to have a couple of witnesses sign it, too). |
|
| |
|
 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I use both, but in Montana you need a bill of sale usually besides transferred papers to get a brand inspection. |
|
| |
|
| mtcanchazer - 2015-08-12 10:58 PM
I use both, but in Montana you need a bill of sale usually besides transferred papers to get a brand inspection.
I think--like this Montana example, it can vary from state to state. While some folks may do it in a more casual manner, it might come back to bite you on the fanny without a contract/bill of sale. |
|
| |
|
Namesless in BHW
Posts: 10368
Location: At the race track with Ah Dee Ohs | Well, I did both! Just to cover my behind! Thanks everyone |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 310
Location: North Dakota | mtcanchazer - 2015-08-12 10:58 PM
I use both, but in Montana you need a bill of sale usually besides transferred papers to get a brand inspection.
I do the same. In ND you also need a bill of sale to get a brand inspection (branded or not) in order to travel. Registration papers do not prove ownership, so you need the bill of sale as proof. If that horse you sold with no bill of sale made it up to ND or MT by some chance and we wanted to get a brand inspection on it, it would create a domino effect with each owner going back to the previous until it reached you for a BOS. |
|
| |
|
| Maybe this is common knowledge, and maybe not (I didn't know it), the AQHA ownership papers do not hold water in a court of law (in Colorado anyway) as far as ownership. The brand inspection, which I believe always has to have a bill of sale is the only thing that will hold up in court. Found out that the AQHA actually issued a letter to the court stating as much for the high dollar, high profile NFR mare ownership case going on now.
I guess you can learn something new everyday....... |
|
| |
|
 Saint Stacey
| farmer's tan - 2015-08-15 2:35 PMMaybe this is common knowledge, and maybe not (I didn't know it), the AQHA ownership papers do not hold water in a court of law (in Colorado anyway) as far as ownership. The brand inspection, which I believe always has to have a bill of sale is the only thing that will hold up in court. Found out that the AQHA actually issued a letter to the court stating as much for the high dollar, high profile NFR mare ownership case going on now. I guess you can learn something new everyday....... It also depends on the state of origin. When I've bought horses from non brand board states, I had a bill of sale, a statement from the previous owner saying the brand inspector was allowed to act on their behalf as an agent and I alsohad to have the ORIGINAL health paper that the hhorse traveled to CO on before the brand inspector would do it. AQHA papers have never been ownership proof because it's too easy to forge a signature.ETA- Did a CO brand inspector issue a inspection on registration papers? If so, that's pretty amazing because all of them I've come across since about 1990ish have been really sticky about issuing them properly.
Edited by SKM 2015-08-15 5:47 PM
|
|
| |
|
 Life Saver
Posts: 10477
Location: MT | Here in MT we have to get a bill of sale when buying a horse in order to get a brand inspection on said horse into our name. Transfers mean nothing as far as ownership goes in our state. |
|
| |
|
| SKM - 2015-08-15 5:31 PM
farmer's tan - 2015-08-15 2:35 PMMaybe this is common knowledge, and maybe not (I didn't know it), the AQHA ownership papers do not hold water in a court of law (in Colorado anyway) as far as ownership. The brand inspection, which I believe always has to have a bill of sale is the only thing that will hold up in court. Found out that the AQHA actually issued a letter to the court stating as much for the high dollar, high profile NFR mare ownership case going on now. I guess you can learn something new everyday....... It also depends on the state of origin. When I've bought horses from non brand board states, I had a bill of sale, a statement from the previous owner saying the brand inspector was allowed to act on their behalf as an agent and I alsohad to have the ORIGINAL health paper that the hhorse traveled to CO on before the brand inspector would do it. AQHA papers have never been ownership proof because it's too easy to forge a signature.ETA- Did a CO brand inspector issue a inspection on registration papers? If so, that's pretty amazing because all of them I've come across since about 1990ish have been really sticky about issuing them properly.
Nope, this brand inspector-and I am hearing this second hand mind you, issued the papers with no bill of sale. He was just told the horse was "brought up from TX" it's a small town, everybody knows everybody and maybe he just thought it was trustworthy. Now it's just a mess. |
|
| |
|
Saint Stacey
| farmer's tan - 2015-08-16 11:02 AM
SKM - 2015-08-15 5:31 PM
farmer's tan - 2015-08-15 2:35 PMMaybe this is common knowledge, and maybe not (I didn't know it), the AQHA ownership papers do not hold water in a court of law (in Colorado anyway) as far as ownership. The brand inspection, which I believe always has to have a bill of sale is the only thing that will hold up in court. Found out that the AQHA actually issued a letter to the court stating as much for the high dollar, high profile NFR mare ownership case going on now. I guess you can learn something new everyday....... It also depends on the state of origin. When I've bought horses from non brand board states, I had a bill of sale, a statement from the previous owner saying the brand inspector was allowed to act on their behalf as an agent and I alsohad to have the ORIGINAL health paper that the hhorse traveled to CO on before the brand inspector would do it. AQHA papers have never been ownership proof because it's too easy to forge a signature.ETA- Did a CO brand inspector issue a inspection on registration papers? If so, that's pretty amazing because all of them I've come across since about 1990ish have been really sticky about issuing them properly.
Nope, this brand inspector-and I am hearing this second hand mind you, issued the papers with no bill of sale. He was just told the horse was "brought up from TX" it's a small town, everybody knows everybody and maybe he just thought it was trustworthy. Now it's just a mess.
Oh wow. Sounds like the brand inspector might be looking for another job. That's a HUGE no no. When I brought Sidekick up from TX years ago, the brand inspector refused to do it without that original health. Thank goodness I still had it because I was really late on getting that inspection. |
|
| |
|
| SKM - 2015-08-16 12:12 PM
farmer's tan - 2015-08-16 11:02 AM
SKM - 2015-08-15 5:31 PM
farmer's tan - 2015-08-15 2:35 PMMaybe this is common knowledge, and maybe not (I didn't know it), the AQHA ownership papers do not hold water in a court of law (in Colorado anyway) as far as ownership. The brand inspection, which I believe always has to have a bill of sale is the only thing that will hold up in court. Found out that the AQHA actually issued a letter to the court stating as much for the high dollar, high profile NFR mare ownership case going on now. I guess you can learn something new everyday....... It also depends on the state of origin. When I've bought horses from non brand board states, I had a bill of sale, a statement from the previous owner saying the brand inspector was allowed to act on their behalf as an agent and I alsohad to have the ORIGINAL health paper that the hhorse traveled to CO on before the brand inspector would do it. AQHA papers have never been ownership proof because it's too easy to forge a signature.ETA- Did a CO brand inspector issue a inspection on registration papers? If so, that's pretty amazing because all of them I've come across since about 1990ish have been really sticky about issuing them properly.
Nope, this brand inspector-and I am hearing this second hand mind you, issued the papers with no bill of sale. He was just told the horse was "brought up from TX" it's a small town, everybody knows everybody and maybe he just thought it was trustworthy. Now it's just a mess. Oh wow. Sounds like the brand inspector might be looking for another job. That's a HUGE no no. When I brought Sidekick up from TX years ago, the brand inspector refused to do it without that original health. Thank goodness I still had it because I was really late on getting that inspection.
Sounds like the brand inspector did indeed get into trouble as he should have. I have a friend whose parent who had been employed by the AQHA who said "the AQHA is law" so I guess I took that at face value.
Apparently, the brand inspector is due at depositions--he'll have to testify he issued papers without the bill of sale to the person who said they "owned" it. I guess will see if any other paperwork was presented to him to write the paperwork. He won't be doing that again!! |
|
| |
Folks on-line