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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
   
Location: North Dakota | I'm been pondering this most of the year. Granted, with all his health problems (hopefully finally under control!!) and where we were last year, I am very happy with where Red is this year.
But if we could shave off about 1 second, he's consistently be at the top of the 1D. He has ran in the 1D on two occasions this year, and they both felt awesome. He just fired. I'm just trying to figure out how to get that each and every time. (Unfortunately, both times I did not get a video!) He tends to be a little slower on larger patterns (I've noticed) and is quicker on smaller patterns.
I know where we are losing the time because I did Interval Timing twice this year. Once in April and again last month. Both times, he has plenty of speed coming into the 1st barrel, his turns are usually good in the run, and he has plenty of speed on the way home. We lose about 1/2 a second between the 1st and second barrel, and about 1/2 a second between the 2nd and 3rd. Which adds up to our 1 second we normally place behind the winner.
I know he has the speed capability, because he can do it going to the 1st and heading for home. I think we are just lacking that "explosion" out of the turn and/or I am letting him slow up too much coming into the turn. I haven't been real good about taking consistent videos lately but I do have a few.
This was on Sunday. I am SO happy with his 1st barrel. He just nailed it and more importantly, it felt really, really nice. I'm not really sure what happened on the 2nd barrel and I had to bump him to make a move on the backside. 3rd barrel was 100% my fault. I took him in a little bit too wide, and since the barrel was so close to the chutes, he set up to turn too soon. My fault completely for not being aware of that. We were about 1 second off the winner.
https://youtu.be/k2kv1MDTF_g
This was from a weekend ago or so. He did nicely for me on the 1st (had to lift my leg to get around it!!) and the 2nd, but I"m not sure what I did on the 3rd barrel to cause that, or if it was simply b/c he over-ran it with all the space behind the 3rd barrel. We were about 1.3 second behind the winner, and I'm sure we lost at least 3 tenths on taking that 3rd barrel wide, if not more. Every once in a while, he runs past the 3rd barrel a little bit like that and I am not sure why, or if it is something I am doing.
https://youtu.be/lRmqKYqMg_M
I recently switched him from a Jr. Cowhorse (smooth mouth with dog bone roller) to a Little S Hack. I feel like he's a little happier with that. If I do need to help him in the turn, he seems less annoyed with me, haha. So I'm going to keep running with that for a while.
This was his 3rd best run of the year, in my opinion. It was at an amateur rodeo and he clocked less than 6 tenths off the winner. I was so very pleased. Well, I lost a little skin on the 3rd barrel coming out of it, but he couldn't have turned it any tighter.
https://youtu.be/TX8lAe1-mYs
This was definately not one of our best runs but I guess it's good to look at it too. I did purposefully slow him up for the 1st barrel. Earlier this year I was having trouble getting him to "lock" onto the barrel, instead of carrying his energy down the fence, so I wanted to make sure we nailed it. I THINK I finally have myself figured out on how I need to cue him to nail that 1st barrel, and not run past it.
https://youtu.be/bSQz77UdRCY
This is an example from earlier this year where he gets past the 1st barrel. Again, I THINK I have my cues figured out that I need to do to fix that. Please excuse the 3rd barrel; it was completely my fault. I let him start the turn too soon and then to "save it" I had to let him come out wide on the backside.
https://youtu.be/dileuJH60i4
So I guess what I am looking for are any TIPS or EXERCISES so that we can shave off about 1/2 second in-between our barrels? I know he can do it, because he has done it twice this year, but just trying to get him more consistent on it. He's in great shape. I usually give him 1 or 2 days off after a long weekend, but ride the rest of the week. I mostly ride on the trails, 4+ miles of trotting and loping. Most weeks, I will breeze him in the middle of the week, unless we have a big weekend coming up where I want to save his energy.
To briefly give a run-down of his health, he does have heel pain for which he is wearing a wedge pad with shoe on both front feet. He was injected last year which helped a ton. He *could* be injected this year but the vet cleared me to not do it, so I am holding off until next year and just doing Previcox *IF* we are going to have a long weekend and I think he would need it. He has a fusing hock on the right side which finally appears completely fused this year, but I did inject his hocks this spring just to be sure. Has the start of a bone spur on the left hock but does not yet seem to be bothering him. He has a mild catching stifle on the right side that will catch if I let him get strung out while trotting on the trail. If I keep him collected, then he doesn't do it. I make sure to incorporate hill work and backing up hills to keep it as strong as we can.
I always have him vet checked in the spring when I start legging him up, and mid-way through the season, and towards the end of the season. With all his known problems, I work very hard to stay on top of everything. He was just checked in June and for him, was the best he's ever been and I already have our next appointment in about 1 month.
And if he's only going to be a consistent 3D horse and an occasional 1D horse, that's okay. BUT if you see anything I could be doing better for him during our run riding-wise, I'm all ears. Of course, I'd love it if he were a consistent 1D horse!
....And if you read all that, kudos to you! 
Edited by r_beau 2015-08-23 2:15 PM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Whew! I made it through...:) I asked how to get more run out of a horse to Lynn McKenzie when she was on here a couple months ago....My big Max doesn't run between barrels real good either and he just really lacks confidence some times. She told me #1 is to look at nutrition. I have Max on Summer Heat from Woody's and make dang sure he's getting enough (I thought it would make him hot) but our pastures are drying up so bad that I'm thinking these guys aren't getting enough anymore. Anyway, I sometimes feed him an extra meal before the race (not a bunch maybe 2-3 pounds) and it seems to help. May just be his maturity level shining through, but I thought it was interesting....maybe pack him a little extra feed the night before or morning of the race and see if it gives him a little more zip??? Easy enough to try.. Also, someone talked about the "break off" drill and my interpretation is you turn the second barrel and then haul the mail across the pen-not to the 3rd barrel but somewhere to the fence between the 1st and 2nd......kind of frees them up and appears to feel like a runaway but that has helped some too. Not sure my description is great but I think you could search for it on here....go back as far as you can in the search. | |
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 Husband Spoiler
Posts: 4151
Location: North Dakota | Some horses you need to train that urgency into. One thing you can do is breeze your horse between the barrels but without actually turning them. Get the horse next to the first barrel and then haul butt to the fence behind 2nd. I mean whip and ride all the way across the pen and get that run. If you have trouble getting that quick burst ask the horse to first haul butt around the arena and then head to the barrel and run from one barrel to the other and stress that urgency. Again do not worry about turning. The point of this exercise is just to teach a horse how to open up in the arena. Once you get some more run you will want to slow back down and do actual pattern work and then put it all together. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | LMS: Yes, the pastures are getting pretty crunchy!! Where I board, they keep getting missed on the rain too. He is on pasture 24/7 and I give him a very small amount of Omolene 200 (maybe 2 measuring cups?) so that I can mix in his T.H.E. Muscle Mass custom blend with joint support. He gets that most every day, and he certainly gets it before a race. I have been meaning to weigh how much that Omolene 200 comes out to; I'll have to do that tonight. He never really needs extra groceries since he's on pasture 24/7 so I really try to only give him a little bit as a "treat".
Can you get the Summer Heat from around here? Does it seem to add weight to the horse? (With regular riding, I can keep Red looking okay but I'm always afraid to add more calories.)
Good idea on the drill except I don't think I quite understand. So I turn the 1st, turn the 2nd, and then go where?
We are doing Bismarck Horse Club tomorrow night. That's a cheap enough entry fee I could "haul @$$" on purpose just to try to get him freed up.
Just bring It: I will have to try that.
I don't know if it makes a difference or not but I do occassionally do other events with him: poles, keyhole, ring race, cup & water, etc etc so I know he knows how to RUN in the arena. But I can totally see how he would "forget" during the barrel run, since we do do that more than anything.
Once in a while, I will get my hands together enough to give him a pop with the over-and-under either between the 1st and 2nd or heading to 3rd, but I don't know if that made him run any faster? I'll maybe have to carry a whip a time or two (more accurate than the over-and-under) to see if I can "urge" him som emore. But I guess most of the time, I don't use anything. I don't run barrels with spurs and I will sometimes use the over-and-under on the way home but not always. Mostly, I feel kinda guilty for using other "aids" like that because I want him to have that desire to run on his own.
On his two 1D runs he had, I didn't use the over-and-under at all.
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | You can get Woody's feed at Gold Label in Bismarck. But if you're giving the omolene 200 I think I would just up that a day or two before a race. Give him a little pep in his step. The drill is turn first turn second and then haul rear across the pen to the opposite fence, like you're creating a run away. Don't turn the third, just get the anticipation of the run. Another drill I've been working on is turning only one barrel. I set it in the middle of the arena and haul the mail from what ever end/edge of the arena and really get them rolling and run off across the arena and come back around and turn it again *as fast as they can go. The bat/over and under might be a good idea too....go out and breeze him and show him that bat/ over and under a little-lite taps. Sometimes just wiggling your wrist with the bat or whip in hand will do the trick, I also smooch to my guy when I breeze him, try to use it during a run too...
I found a thread talking about the break off drill, it's been so long since I've done it I forgot about the counterarc at the second.
http://forums.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=439284&posts=14&mid=6847863&highlight=<span class='highlight'>Break</span>+<span class='highlight'>off</span>+<span class='highlight'>drill</span>&highlightmode=1&action=search#M6847863
Edited by LMS 2015-08-13 3:43 PM
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Interesting link. Thanks!
I just measured his grain he normally gets every day with his T.H.E. And he gets about 1/2 a pound. So not much!!
I guess I could increase it and see what happens! I know the Omolene 200 has a lot of molasses (and why he likes it so much!). Is there something better? Is their molasses in the Woodys Summer Heat? | |
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  Independent Cuss
Posts: 3978
Location: Dearing, GA | So my advice would be to clean up your turns before you add any more speed between the barrels. If you can get the rate at the right spot and get him to really snap around those barrels, then speed will be useful to you between the barrels. However, if he can fly in between the barrels and still has inconsistent and sometimes sloppy turns, it won't matter. | |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| This horse is not striding out. I don't know what was wrong with him and do not know the horse. It could be anything from sore feet to a sore back or anything in between. My horse was doing this and he was body does from EPM. Not saying your horse has EPM buthe has a problem somewhere. You can see the horse is sore in the turns too. | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Just Let Me Run: To be honest, when we have a "bad turn", it usually is my fault for not cueing him right in some way. Most of the time. He's very broke and listens well to me, so if I make a mis-judgement on timing on my cues, that's on me. I don't do slow work very often anymore, but he does it perfectly and does exactly as I ask. One thing I probably *should* work on is that drill where you "spin" behind the barrel, to quicken his feet.
StreakSox: I have his health history description in my OP, but I do honestly feel like he is just a short-strided horse. Compared to my other horse, and other horses I have ridden, he just does not have a "ground covering" stride. And he's been that way since day one. However, even though his stride is the way it is, he still has speed.
I didn't post this video in the earlier bunch just because it's an "older" video from back in April. I didn't set him up right to start the run (have fixed that) and didn't set him up right for the first barrel (think I've finally figured out my cueing on that!) which resultantly messed up our entry to the 2nd barrel .... BUT! The point I want to make with showing this is that according to the Interval Timing on this race that had over 400 entries, his 3rd barrel was faster (or about the same) as the top 5 runs out of those 400+ runs, and his speed on the way home was actually a smidge FASTER than them. So I do know he has the speed capability, even if he doesn't feel like he has that long of a stride. I was actually pretty surprised to find that out from the IT. I really didn't think he was that fast based on how his stride feels to me, but I guess he is. Again, just have to figure out how to also get that in-between the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yKh6pVnuobg
I do regular chiropractic work on him as well, and he actually was just checked last night. He's always a little bit out in his withers and sometimes poll, but it's never severe.
Pretty sure he does not have EPM.
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| My experience has been that a horse can only go so fast no matter what. A lot of people seem to think that if they change this or that then they will all be 1D horses. Not the case. Your horse seems solid in the pattern, unless he is very young or something then thats the barrel horse he is. As for feeds you can go with whole oats, that will add some sting. You might want to try a round of Adequan or pentosan as well just to see if it smoothes him out. | |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | Yes summer heat has molasses, but again, if you're only feeding a half pound, try giving him a pound before a run-couple hours-see if it lights him up a little. I've watched this horse mature-he's coming and so are you.....just keep going-it takes a long time to get them solid for every trip. Have you ever noticed a connection to his speed when you give the previcoxx?? Maybe he needs that every run/day? | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Flittastic: Yes, as I said above, if he's only a consistent 3D horse and that's just what he is, then great! I'm happy with that. He tries hard for me. However, it's always nice to ask for opinions to see if there is anything else I could be doing for him, to help him reach that full potential.
He has already been on Adequan for over the past year.
LMS: So far for his two 1D runs, he was not on Previcox for them nor did I do anything "special" beforehand. He was rather being a butthead before the second of those two, so he was definately FIRED up and ready to go. Maybe a little more grain might be the ticket for that "spark"? I gave him 1 pound last night and he'll get 1 pound tonight before we race. I'm hoping someone "fast" is there tonight, so I can kinda compare his time he is getting.
His first 1D run was at the indoor at Beards this spring, and my jaw about hit the floor when they said my time of 14.313 (I think it was). It just felt flawless. I couldn't think of one thing to change about the run he did it so nicely. Again, he was not on Previcox and I didn't do anything special. I don't remember him being a butthead that day though, haha. Just his same ol' self! Overall, he definately has matured a lot.
So far this year, I have only given him Previcox to prepare for two different weekends that were going to be long. I also am giving him Previcox this week because he'll have a very, very long day on Sunday at a horse show. I am considering keeping him on it through district finals next weekend just to see how he does with it. I'm trying not to over-use it if I do not have to, and just making sure he gets proper rest.
Last year, he was on Previcox the entire second half of the year per Dr. Mez. His right hock wasn't completely fused last year and he was a still a little sore despite injections. This spring, it was amazing how different the x-ray looked and Lindsey said "it's about as fused as its gonna get". So that was good news.
For the most part, I kind plan on being done with him for the year in about a month, unless Lindsey says otherwise at his appointment toward the end of Sept. I would have liked to go to a few big October races but if he needs to be done, I'd rather do that then more injections or Previcoxx. I'll just go shoot pheasants instead. 
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest | Admittedly, I did not read this whole thread.
However, when I want a bit of an extra kick, I will give mine Healthy Coat a few days before the show. Does the trick! | |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | Have you ever breezed him out in the pasture or track? | |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | BarrelRacer131: Is that this supplement here? http://www.unitedvetequine.com/equine-supplements/Healthy-Coat-equine-supplements.asp?CAWELAID=120126050000019257&CAGPSPN=pla&catargetid=120126050000019817&cadevice=c&gclid=COycnKiQqccCFdCRHwodAw0LNA
HammerTime: I know my OP is lengthy, but as I stated above YES he is breezed on a regular basis and he looooooves it. He's like a kid in a candy shop when I let him run! I do it most weeks in the middle of the week (one night), unless we have a big long weekend coming up then I do not.
There's one stretch that is just a hair over 1/4 mile and that's really not long enough. He'll want to run farther than that! There's another stretch I can use that is probably almost 1/2 mile but not quite. And some days, he'll still be wanting to haul @$$ the ENTIRE length. He sure loves to run! Always amazing how that doesn't necessarily translate into the arena...... 
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Hungarian Midget Woman
Location: Midwest |
Yes it is. Tractor Supply sells it in my area, along with some feed stores.
I had him on it all the time for a while... and yeah... while he looked fab, he was a hot mess. haha | |
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 Big Gun
Posts: 2216
Location: Texas | Just Bring It - 2015-08-13 11:39 AM Some horses you need to train that urgency into. One thing you can do is breeze your horse between the barrels but without actually turning them. Get the horse next to the first barrel and then haul butt to the fence behind 2nd. I mean whip and ride all the way across the pen and get that run. If you have trouble getting that quick burst ask the horse to first haul butt around the arena and then head to the barrel and run from one barrel to the other and stress that urgency. Again do not worry about turning. The point of this exercise is just to teach a horse how to open up in the arena. Once you get some more run you will want to slow back down and do actual pattern work and then put it all together.
I would be afraid to try that, I'm afraid it would backfire and I would be in worse shape. I have breezed my horse and he runs a lot faster then he does in the arena so I know it's not a feed problem, I have had him scoped so I know it's not a bleeding problem, I usually know when he's hurting somewhere because he'll start balking around the alley when it's time to inject hocks. He slows down when I whip, he's in good shape. I think he's just gotten use to this speed and decided he doesn't need to go any faster | |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| r_beau - 2015-08-14 8:27 AM
Just Let Me Run: To be honest, when we have a "bad turn", it usually is my fault for not cueing him right in some way. Most of the time. He's very broke and listens well to me, so if I make a mis-judgement on timing on my cues, that's on me. I don't do slow work very often anymore, but he does it perfectly and does exactly as I ask. One thing I probably *should* work on is that drill where you "spin" behind the barrel, to quicken his feet.
StreakSox: I have his health history description in my OP, but I do honestly feel like he is just a short-strided horse. Compared to my other horse, and other horses I have ridden, he just does not have a "ground covering" stride. And he's been that way since day one. However, even though his stride is the way it is, he still has speed.
I didn't post this video in the earlier bunch just because it's an "older" video from back in April. I didn't set him up right to start the run (have fixed that) and didn't set him up right for the first barrel (think I've finally figured out my cueing on that!) which resultantly messed up our entry to the 2nd barrel .... BUT! The point I want to make with showing this is that according to the Interval Timing on this race that had over 400 entries, his 3rd barrel was faster (or about the same) as the top 5 runs out of those 400+ runs, and his speed on the way home was actually a smidge FASTER than them. So I do know he has the speed capability, even if he doesn't feel like he has that long of a stride. I was actually pretty surprised to find that out from the IT. I really didn't think he was that fast based on how his stride feels to me, but I guess he is. Again, just have to figure out how to also get that in-between the barrels.
https://youtu.be/yKh6pVnuobg
I do regular chiropractic work on him as well, and he actually was just checked last night. He's always a little bit out in his withers and sometimes poll, but it's never severe.
Pretty sure he does not have EPM.
First of all, I said that MY horse had EPM and did not think that was your horse's problem. If you look at the slow motion of this video, look closely at the horse running out of the arena from the third barrel. Notice that the horse's front legs hardly reach past the horse's chest. Something is hindering the horse. Possibly a shoulder problem. This horse is not reaching out. | |
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 Chasin my Dream
Posts: 13651
Location: Alberta | FLITASTIC - 2015-08-14 7:46 AM My experience has been that a horse can only go so fast no matter what. A lot of people seem to think that if they change this or that then they will all be 1D horses. Not the case. Your horse seems solid in the pattern, unless he is very young or something then thats the barrel horse he is. As for feeds you can go with whole oats, that will add some sting. You might want to try a round of Adequan or pentosan as well just to see if it smoothes him out.
I agree with this.....
My seasoned mare who is 13 I've done tons to fine tune her turns, breeze to get speed and in her career only hit the 1D a handful of times, which did include winning a jackpot. My 5 year old who had less then 20 competitive runs under his belt is running 5/10 off the leader (at his last jackpot) and he has not tapped all his gears....and him being young still have bobbles to adjust each time.
I think fine tuning the turns and breezing to free them up is great for any horse regardless of what division they run in. | |
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 How freakish is that?
Posts: 3927
Location: Oregon | Get him off the 24/7 pasture. Lock him up at least part of the time and feed him up with grain til he acts like a beast. Then see what he can do.
(just don't get him tying up or other problems) | |
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