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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
  
| The other day while at my equine vet, I was visiting with a very reputable vet. I asked her a few questions and she basically told me PHT and BOT do nothing other then keep a horse from stocking up, most supplements do nothing, SMB's don't protect the tendons enough to make any difference.. the only purpose is that they protect the front legs from being nicked by back hooves. Pretty depressing when I thought I was doing all these things right for my horses. I disagree with her on a few things, but she is a very successful vet. Note this vet was a dressage/ English girl, but she deals with barrel horses frequently. Do you have any vets that deal with barrel horses, and what advice have they given you. Thanks | |
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 Veteran
Posts: 253
Location: EDGE OF INSANITY | I've had similar conversations with several different vets. I think the majority opinion (of vets) is that they don't work. I would love to see some "real" research done on these products (maybe some have it and i just haven't seen it lol) | |
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 Reaching for the stars....
Posts: 12708
 
| I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional. | |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | There are lots of successful vets that don't even like horses...
Edited to add:
The vast majority of barrel racers don't "need" the therapy items, supplements, wraps, etc...simply because they don't condition their horses to compete at their highest level anyway. They're participating to have fun...supposedly. My biggest complaint about the things that I see on a regular basis is that people don't condition themselves to ride their horses to the best of their ability either. They don't ride during the week, enter barrel races every weekend, and will continue to enter even after their horses are sore instead of sitting it out and spending a little on maintenance at the vet.
Edited by rachellyn80 2015-09-01 12:54 PM
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 Saint Stacey
| JMHO so take it or leave it. But alternative therapies take cash out of vets pockets. Very few vets are going to say certain things work because they are taught the drug end of things. A vet would much rather a client come to them for high dollar Adequen than admit some OTC joint supplement might actually work.
Edited by SKM 2015-09-01 1:52 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 933
Location: north dakota | I've had a vet that barrel races recommend the BOT products for muscle soreness. I asked a physical therapist (for people) about the magnets and he didn't see any benefits for them. He did think the taping like they used in the Olympics would be beneficial. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | I think that there aren't enough scientific independent peer reviewed studies/data to say one way or the other for the efficacy of many supplements/practices/products on the market. Much of the claims are based on anecdotal evidence. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| TrailGirl - 2015-09-01 1:53 PM
I think that there aren't enough scientific independent peer reviewed studies/data to say one way or the other for the efficacy of many supplements/practices/products on the market. Much of the claims are based on anecdotal evidence.
agreed. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| I have heard the same about therapies and supplements. I'll be honest, I believe in both. I believe there COULD be some benefit to magnetic therapy, but it hasn't been studied enough to know for sure if it makes a SIGNIFICANT difference.
I believe wholeheartedly that feed through supplements don't work nearly as well as people like to believe they do. And there is science out there to prove it. I wish it wasn't the case, but sadly, it is.
I was telling my husband the other night that I was considering the PHT wraps for a mare I've got with some issues going on. He said, it's a placebo effect. He said, if he gets sick and he takes medicine, he can either believe the medicine made him better, or he was going to get better anyway, but because he took medicine, he thinks that was WHY he got better. He believes the latter. In things like the common cold, and even acute injuries, this is true. Your body will heal itself, it's what it was made to do. Of course that's not the same for all injuries/diseases, just the mild ones. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 669
Location: Central Texas | ndcowgirl - 2015-09-01 1:47 PM
I've had a vet that barrel races recommend the BOT products for muscle soreness. I asked a physical therapist (for people) about the magnets and he didn't see any benefits for them. He did think the taping like they used in the Olympics would be beneficial.
I honestly don't know how much of a benefit all these things are but I use them on my horses. As far as magnetic therapy, I used a pastern wrap on my very sore and aching achilles tendon and I have to say it did in fact relieve the pain and soreness. Who knows maybe it was in my mind but when they bother me I borrow the wraps from my horse again. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1094
Location: Idahome | lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 11:49 AM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional.
This! While I do have a PHT and use it on occassion, when I think down deep it is really more for my benefit than my horse. Shelter, fresh water and feed are what they really need to be healthy. With that said, just giving hay won't always cut it. Horses need a variety of different forage. I use a supplement when needed that is strictly herbal with no additives or flavorings because I feel nutrition is the best way to keep them sound. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 742
| rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 12:50 PM There are lots of successful vets that don't even like horses...
Edited to add:
The vast majority of barrel racers don't "need" the therapy items, supplements, wraps, etc...simply because they don't condition their horses to compete at their highest level anyway. They're participating to have fun...supposedly. My biggest complaint about the things that I see on a regular basis is that people don't condition themselves to ride their horses to the best of their ability either. They don't ride during the week, enter barrel races every weekend, and will continue to enter even after their horses are sore instead of sitting it out and spending a little on maintenance at the vet.
 You win the internet today! | |
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Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional.
What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge. They help keep a horse feeling their best. If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| OutlawsLastDance - 2015-09-01 2:01 PM
I have heard the same about therapies and supplements. I'll be honest, I believe in both. I believe there COULD be some benefit to magnetic therapy, but it hasn't been studied enough to know for sure if it makes a SIGNIFICANT difference.
I believe wholeheartedly that feed through supplements don't work nearly as well as people like to believe they do. And there is science out there to prove it. I wish it wasn't the case, but sadly, it is.
I was telling my husband the other night that I was considering the PHT wraps for a mare I've got with some issues going on. He said, it's a placebo effect. He said, if he gets sick and he takes medicine, he can either believe the medicine made him better, or he was going to get better anyway, but because he took medicine, he thinks that was WHY he got better. He believes the latter. In things like the common cold, and even acute injuries, this is true. Your body will heal itself, it's what it was made to do. Of course that's not the same for all injuries/diseases, just the mild ones.
I don't think the placebo effect is valid when talking about horses though. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 629
| How not? I don't mean that because the horse is getting medicine or some therapy the HORSE believes that it feels better, so it is better. Slight sprains, mild "common colds" do get better on their own if the horse is healthy enough for its own body to fight whatever off. | |
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 The Worst Seller Ever
Posts: 4138
Location: Oklahoma | I think the alternate therapies work to an extent, but you have to do the maintenance throught the Vet as well. I have seen the effectiveness and ineffectiveness of the alternate therapies on different horses.
My PHT blanket works wonders on muscle soreness, and I don't have to give banamine or bute. My supplements may not do a whole lot for joints, but they sure make the horses feel better and have more energy.
Nothing will take the place of proper Vet care and conditioning, but every little bit help when you are trying to keep that competitive edge. | |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| I agree on the SMB's. They are for protection from blunt trauma. I agree with that JOINT SUPPLEMENTS have little effect on horses because their digestive tracts are different from humans and they do not absorb substances the way humans do. All humans and animals need vitamins and loose minerals do help. This could be in the form of your favorite supplement. It is important to have vitamins and minerals in the proper balance. As far as magnets go there is a huge human market for magnetic products. Being a science teacher I can see how magnets could be beneficial. I personally do not use them on my horses. Not for any reason. Just don't. I am a believer that good maintenance on a horse and proper conditioning will certainly keep a horse competing at a higher level. I also know quite a few vets that recommend various products like magnets. I ask my vet about various new trends and the one he seems to think is a farce is the Equi-resp. My personal favorite product is the Theraplate.
An after thought. SMB's were originally called rundowns. They were designed for race horses that ran on deep sandy tracks to prevent the horses from burning their heels (fetlock), in the mid 1970's
Edited by streakysox 2015-09-01 3:46 PM
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 3:35 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional. What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge. They help keep a horse feeling their best. If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration.
Edited by Bibliafarm 2015-09-01 10:29 PM
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| Bibliafarm - 2015-09-01 10:28 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 3:35 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional. What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge. They help keep a horse feeling their best. If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration.
I get what you are Rachel are saying, especially the highlighted parts. But I guess my main question is what additional therapys are proven to truly make a difference? If a horse has top notch vet care, proper feed and conditioning, are alternative therapy's necessary to get them to the top of their game and keep them there? Not necessary? Do you feel they give an added edge and make sure your horse is feeling good? | |
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Expert
Posts: 2531
Location: WI | countrygirl2006 - 2015-09-02 11:39 AM Bibliafarm - 2015-09-01 10:28 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-09-01 3:35 PM lonely va barrelxr - 2015-09-01 12:49 PM I've had both of my most trusted vets tell me much the same. Wrapping legs (either with wraps or boots) causing more damage from heat build up, supplements pretty much worthless, and my first good vet was years and years ahead of the new deworming idea of over-medicating. She got me onto the once-a-year power pac followed in 6 weeks with ivermectin, and then a fecal count about this time of the year for one more follow up deworming. Both of these vets educated me on feeds and the nutritional and physiological needs of horses leading me to give up bagged products for the most part and rely on top quality hays.
Marketing is a wonderful thing, and an evil thing. I used to harp on the fear-mongering style that a few vendors use/d to sell THEIR products. I hate that. I also detest a marketer who uses guilt to drive us into thinking we NEED to provide this or that product else we are NEGLECTING our horses. Horses NEED -- food in the form of grass (any type/s including legumes), clean water supply, and shelter from the cold winds. Other than those three things it's all optional. What you say is true, in general...but does not apply when you are speaking of athletes.
Horses who are actually putting out effort and clocking in the higher divisions are going to tear themselves up. They require more care, more time, and more money spent to keep them competing. If you do not intend to strive for rodeo earnings or higher division placings then your horse will get along just fine and will actually back off to a level where he can take care of himself. You can give them hay, water, and shelter and haul them to barrel races with minimal conditioning and have fun.
Therapy products are designed to give those who push themselves an edge. They help keep a horse feeling their best. If you don't manage your own health, it's nearly impossible to know how much better your horse can feel when they have the proper energy, rest, and nutrition. Athletes care for their bodies, barrel horses are athletes and deserve the same consideration.
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