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Location: U.S. | My 6 year old gelding who has a great foundation. He collects (correctly), bends, counter bends, he is ballenced, (he is really broke.) And for the sake of this post he is sound in everyway.
So here is our issue.
He gets VERY upset when I touch his face during barrel work.
Like we lope to the first I ask him to stop and back. Instead of his nice collected booty stop he normally has, he throws his head up like he has never had his face touched in his life and he is ****ed! (This is not a teeth issue I promise!)
Or if I have o rate him he looses collection throws his head up causing him to hallow his back and loose his lead. It's ugly!
I have rode him in a martingale, draw runs draw gag ported ect... (Not all at yhe same time lol)I'm at my wits end he is too nice of a horse to be doin this. And I have spent a small fortune make sure that this is not a pain thing. So like I said for the sake of this question it's not pain related.
Ideas???? |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
   
| My trainer just put tie down on my three year old.. She has a tremendous headset even when working, but my trainer felt she needed it to brace against. I laughed and said that we used to put a tie down on everything.. Make sure that you have it adjusted properly. It is at least worth a try. Just thought of this too. I love a German martingale. That might help too. |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Have you checked his bit for rough edges? Maybe a different bit/mouthpiece? Maybe at the barrels you are taking a hold of him a little faster without meaning to? Are you positive his saddle fits? What about the saddle pad, is it old or thin and hard in some pressure spots? These are just some things I would check if pain is not a factor. Something is bothering him but what? It's very frustrating! Hope you get it figured out.  |
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Location: U.S. | None of my bits have rough edges (I try to always look them over before I grab them) plus I have been playing with several diffent ones. His saddle fit is great, never any dry spots. His pad is prob getting ready to be replaced bit I never let salt or anything build up on them. He likes the ESP pad. His back is not sore at all either (I'm going over it in his stall right now lol)
It's like he gets offended when I correct him because he thinks he knows everything. In the past I have been able to slow work this out but it's been going on for about 6 mo. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | What bit are you riding him in most often? I never lope a horse to a barrel and stop. I only do this at a walk or trot. If I'm going to ask them to lope I want them to do it smooth through the pattern. Tuning needs to be done at a slower pace. I feel like when you lope them they jam into the ground to much and loose their bend and softness. The next question is how are you rating him? It sounds like to me he is stiffening his body which in return is causing the head to go up. Does he do these things away from the pattern? What does he do when you make a run? |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Everyone has a different definition of broke.
To me this horse isn't broke. A horse should accept the bit, pressure, whenever or wherever you are. I would be working the horse on more drills around objects, and work on face contact.
If he is still hollowing out his back then I would be videoing and taking it to the vet to rule out pain. It could be tmj, hocks, si. I have learned over the years, just because one vet says their sound doesn't mean the horse is sound. It all depends on their equipment, training, experience, and speciality.
And if the horse is sound after vet, massage, and chiro have went through the horse, then I would go to a German martingale.
One other thing is you need to evaluate your riding, you may be handling your reins differently when doing barrel work, and could be sending him mixed signals |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Do you have a video of you working him? Has this horse been competed on or are you just starting him on the pattern? |
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | An easy way to rule out that his teeth TRULY are ok-put a hackamore on him-if he is better-you have some sort of mouth trouble......If he were mine-I would bit him up and let him soak for a few minutes-fully supervised-of course, until he learns the mouth pressure means HE must give and not overreact. Lots of circles with full rein contact - spiralling down in size and back out again, should help ALOT. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | Have you xrayed his hocks. sounds to me like he doesnt want to sit on hind.. Hollow back makes me think that. strung out...
might be fusing.. he can appear sound but that doesnt sound like just a training issue.. |
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 Veteran
Posts: 178
| Could you post a video for us? That would help a lot! |
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 Go For It!
Location: Texas |
It sounds like you have done your homework and he's just getting away with this. Many ladies come to the clinics with this same issue. It's a pretty easy fix, if that is all he does. I'd tell you what to do, but showing you, on the horse, is the best way.
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Location: U.S. | Right now he runs between the 2d and 3d without asking g him to run. (I have never asked him to run yet) he has plenty of that he is pie in the sky/ streaking la Jolla bred.
His entire rear end has been x-rayed and he has been looked over my 3 different highly respected preformancestors horse vets. He just had his teeth done a month ago and gers done annually. I will get some videos when I get home tonight for yall. |
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Location: U.S. | I ride him most often in a square d-ring sometimes with a german. I also will work him in a half moon three price twisted wire draw gag and I run him in a cervi med shank with a dog bone. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | rockstarinboots - 2015-09-22 1:21 PM I ride him most often in a square d-ring sometimes with a german. I also will work him in a half moon three price twisted wire draw gag and I run him in a cervi med shank with a dog bone.
Well first thing I would try is to go back to a smooth o ring, some split reins, and get him to break at the pole. If he acts touchy I would throw the square mouthpiece out!!!! |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | I'm wondering more if your hands aren't a bit quick or heavy (and I don't mean this to be ugly, just throwing this out there) and this is your horse's reaction due to having a bit hurt his mouth when you may get a little quick or jerky when working or running him. That's why I asked for a video. I feel like I have very good hands, but I am constantly paying attention to what my hands are doing as I know when the pace speeds up or i'm working a horse at speed, my hands get a bit quicker, especially if my horse gets out of position in a run. It's something I work on every run I make to have soft hands that don't over react and over correct. |
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Location: U.S. | You might have a good point there, I feel like I have super good hands when I am just riding, slow work other exercise ect...I also show him in low level dressage (for fun) so he might expect perfect hands all the time and then my hands I am sure are far from perfect when we race, thus the resentment.
He has a nice correct stop and he backs without much rein.
Please I worry enofe about soundness, just for the sake of this post let's not go there. |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | how does he turn at speed?
Sounds like he just is a little frazzled and wants to run. This rooting the nose and hollowing out happens a lot with young horses on cattle and even reining horses with speed on a rundown. They can be broke to death, but hollow out, invert the head, and pull against you.
If so, he most likely is showing you he has a problem listening to you. That is not uncommon in any arena discipline.
Edited by Tdove 2015-09-22 3:17 PM
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 Sorry I don't have any advice
Posts: 1975
Location: Sunnyland Florida |
If he has a pattern and is going down the road to barrel races, he probably doesn't need barrel work, unless there are issues. Stopping @ the first barrel and backing (most always) isn't necessary, rather, just sitting down & dropping your weight to cue him to rate.
Someone before you may have slammed him in the ground before the barrels enough to make him hate it, head toss and retaliate. Plus, it's a lot of extra wear and tear on the hocks that isn't necessary.
Barrel work at a walk and trot is more effective than loping, and, since we never stop in a run, just teaching him to rate is probably a better way to work him.
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Location: U.S. | At speed it is about 50% of the time he gets his booty under him and works and the other half he will throw up his head, hollow his back and loose his lead. So that's why we are doing the slow work to try to get him to consistently turn correct but I am failing at doing that.... |
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Go For It!
Location: Texas | rockstarinboots - 2015-09-22 4:26 PM
At speed it is about 50% of the time he gets his booty under him and works and the other half he will throw up his head, hollow his back and loose his lead. So that's why we are doing the slow work to try to get him to consistently turn correct but I am failing at doing that....
There are a few things that give me some clues about your horse... and you. One thing is that he hasn't figured out he is a barrel horse yet. If you are having to snatch him at the barrel then he's not rating and turning on his own. That is the first thing you need to fix. These horses need to be on their honor on the pattern and we need to just stay out of the way and let them do their job. OUR job is to get them to that point so that they can be confident in and out of the arena.
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