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Expert
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| Got a gelding in with blown veins in his neck from an injury earlier in life. He really clocks better with legend/HA. I'm talking .3 tenths difference. Any tips for getting HA/Legend into him without hitting that main vein? He has allowed me to hit it in his leg a few times but by myself its pretty hard. Alternatives or tips? |
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| could you not use the vein on the other side of his neck? |
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 Voice of Reason
 
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Why noy try adequan and go IM?
Edited by justcruzin 2015-09-24 5:08 PM
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The Advice Guru
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| My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv. |
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv.
The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv.
The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive.
Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan.
Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA.
Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin
As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet.
As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| justcruzin - 2015-09-24 6:37 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv.
The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive.
Adequan does not have the same affect making them clock better. He gets that as well tho. |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 10:45 PM
justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv.
The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive.
Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan.
Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA.
Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin
As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet.
As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse.
I've never heard of a vet recommending legend IM and i've talked to plenty about it but if you can do that I want to know about it! Scared it wouldn't be the same affect as IV and there i go wasting some expensive stuff!
ETA: not a fan of lubrisyn
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-09-25 9:31 AM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | So, I don't mean to sound like a smart a$$ but if he has blown veins how does the blood get from his brain back to his lungs?? I'm assuming you are talking about major scar tissue.....which would be hard to get through but if you took the time to have a vet help you determine where the best place to access the vein you could IV him......... |
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | so my question is- are both jugular veins blown? and by blown, what do you mean? can you feel a thrombus, or when you hold off nothing rises?
I don't want to insult you or anything, just trying to paint the picture in my mind.. how did you come to the conclusion they were blown?
Which vein in the leg are you trying to hit?
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 7:45 PM justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv. The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive. Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan. Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA. Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet. As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse.
Both legend and adequan, reduce inflamation, (adequan inhibits, lagend decreases) only Adequan is heavier and last longer, more effictive, cheaper. If she's dealing with OA. Been using Adequan since the earily 90's. Each horse is different and what works on one might not work on another. My only advice is to stick with protocal and give legend IV. |
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Expert
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| LMS - 2015-09-25 10:36 AM
So, I don't mean to sound like a smart a$$ but if he has blown veins how does the blood get from his brain back to his lungs?? I'm assuming you are talking about major scar tissue.....which would be hard to get through but if you took the time to have a vet help you determine where the best place to access the vein you could IV him.........
He had a life threatening bacteria as a 3 yr that caused both side of his neck extremely hard to hit IV...experienced vets have had problems with him. Vets usually do his leg, its RARE that they hit it and always always must use the leg. Sorry I guess i should have used the correct term of collapsed veins (he's got extreme scar tissue) from multiple injections resulting from his treatment as a youngster. I just used some slang LOL
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-09-25 12:50 PM
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The Advice Guru
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| justcruzin - 2015-09-25 12:37 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 7:45 PM justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv. The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive. Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan. Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA. Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet. As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse.
HA what legend is has been proven to be a prostaglandin inhibitor which means it inhibits prostaglandin to trigger the inflammatory process therefore reducing inflammation.
Polysulfated glycosaminoglycan what adequan is a chrondroprotective, it inhibits metalloproteinase. What I get from this is adequan doesn't prevent the inflammatory process the initial stages anyway, but prevents the residual effects of the inflammatory process, ie the proteins found in in the joint after inflammation is present that destroy the cartilage.
I got this information from Saunders handbook of veterinary drugs, and Saunders equine clinical pharmacology text books. |
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Expert
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| casualdust07 - 2015-09-25 10:43 AM so my question is- are both jugular veins blown? and by blown, what do you mean? can you feel a thrombus, or when you hold off nothing rises? I don't want to insult you or anything, just trying to paint the picture in my mind.. how did you come to the conclusion they were blown? Which vein in the leg are you trying to hit?
When Dr. Hopper at Rood and Riddle tells me "well his viens are basically blown they are hard to hit, you'll need to start using this one in his leg" LOL I can't tell you the name of the vein (i know your in vet school) but we've been using the back inside up top. If i'm lucky he stands for it.
Edited by astreakinchic 2015-09-25 1:28 PM
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Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | cheryl makofka - 2015-09-25 11:02 AM justcruzin - 2015-09-25 12:37 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 7:45 PM justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv. The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive. Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan. Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA. Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet. As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse. HA what legend is has been proven to be a prostaglandin inhibitor which means it inhibits prostaglandin to trigger the inflammatory process therefore reducing inflammation. Polysulfated glycosaminoglycan what adequan is a chrondroprotective, it inhibits metalloproteinase. What I get from this is adequan doesn't prevent the inflammatory process the initial stages anyway, but prevents the residual effects of the inflammatory process, ie the proteins found in in the joint after inflammation is present that destroy the cartilage. I got this information from Saunders handbook of veterinary drugs, and Saunders equine clinical pharmacology text books.
I do believe thats what I said without doing a cut and paste.......  |
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Expert
Posts: 1611
| justcruzin - 2015-09-25 2:22 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-25 11:02 AM justcruzin - 2015-09-25 12:37 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 7:45 PM justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv. The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive. Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan. Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA. Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet. As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse. HA what legend is has been proven to be a prostaglandin inhibitor which means it inhibits prostaglandin to trigger the inflammatory process therefore reducing inflammation. Polysulfated glycosaminoglycan what adequan is a chrondroprotective, it inhibits metalloproteinase. What I get from this is adequan doesn't prevent the inflammatory process the initial stages anyway, but prevents the residual effects of the inflammatory process, ie the proteins found in in the joint after inflammation is present that destroy the cartilage. I got this information from Saunders handbook of veterinary drugs, and Saunders equine clinical pharmacology text books.
Adequan does not affect horses the same way legend does when it comes to quickening one up.
I give adequan in the series twice a year not monthly. Legend we give 5 hrs out and it doesn't help all horses this way but some it does help them clock significantly better. Legend is short term. Dr. hopper doesn't even inject acid into hocks anymore, its pointless (i bet that will ruffle some feathers on here LOL) He says you want HA in them then give a shot of legend before you go through the gate. |
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Experienced Mouse Trapper
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Location: North Dakota | astreakinchic - 2015-09-25 12:46 PM LMS - 2015-09-25 10:36 AM So, I don't mean to sound like a smart a$$ but if he has blown veins how does the blood get from his brain back to his lungs?? I'm assuming you are talking about major scar tissue.....which would be hard to get through but if you took the time to have a vet help you determine where the best place to access the vein you could IV him......... He had a life threatening bacteria as a 3 yr that caused both side of his neck extremely hard to hit IV...experienced vets have had problems with him. Vets usually do his leg, its RARE that they hit it and always always must use the leg. Sorry I guess i should have used the correct term of collapsed veins (he's got extreme scar tissue ) from multiple injections resulting from his treatment as a youngster. I just used some slang LOL
Thank you for the explanation! Let me give you another option to try that just might be easier for everyone (aside from taking him to the vet for a legend injection every time you want them) Try some pentosan-get him UTD on his joint injections (which I'm assuming he gets) and then dose him with pentosan-it is IM as needed-usually 4 doses (1-per week) and then monthly after. I have used it weekly when I had a sore horse from a bad wreck. I can't imagine trying to hit the femoral vein unless you can give him some calmex or other type of calming oral drug.....He must really be in tough shape to have almost 1 1/2 foot of jugular not be available......good luck! |
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| Pentosan gold has everything in it. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| astreakinchic - 2015-09-25 9:29 AM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 10:45 PM
justcruzin - 2015-09-24 5:37 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-09-24 3:14 PM My vet told me I could give legend Im if I couldn't give it Iv.
The manufacture recomends IV or IA only. I'll stick with that. Adequan is also less expensive.
Adequan and legend work differently on the body, so one may not see the same result if the horse responded to legend, they may not respond the same way to adequan.
Another alternative is lubrysin, there are no scientific studies behind it, and if costs about 3/day. The theory behind it is it absorbs via mucus membranes before it gets to the stomach. Lubrysin and legend are both HA.
Myself I have visually seen the same results from legend and lubrysin
As for giving legend Im, it is something one would need to discuss with your own vet.
As previcoxx is not liscensed nor does the manufacture suggest giving it to horses, but we do anyway. I have always been worried about the meat flavoured and giving it to my horse.
I've never heard of a vet recommending legend IM and i've talked to plenty about it but if you can do that I want to know about it! Scared it wouldn't be the same affect as IV and there i go wasting some expensive stuff!
ETA: not a fan of lubrisyn
Another option is injectible glucosamine.
I gave mine im and had the same results as a friend who gave hers iv. I wasn't comfortable giving a compounded product iv. You can speak to your vet about this option too |
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