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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
  
Location: West Texas | While I post on here often, with information and opinion. I also learn a great deal from here as well. Something that I have seen Herbie mention a couple of times is synthetic vitamins and minerals negatively affecting horses health.
If anyone can provide insight into the reasoning behind this, I am quite interested and ready to learn. Thanks!
Edited by Tdove 2015-09-29 12:41 PM
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | I know THE uses only natural. I'll see if I can get some info to share here on the why's of using natural, other than for obvious reasons. |
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 Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Tdove, you should post this question on www.secondvet.com, as it would be an interesting read for alot of us. Basically sythetics contribute to the inflammation and aggravation in the hind gut, which then affects assimilation of all nutrients, which then requires us to feed more. The inflammation in the hind gut causes the immune system to become a bit over reactive and affects the immune respose to issues which would normally be fought off without hesitation, often leading to what we see as chronic inflammatory issues from allergies, chronic joint issues, chronic digestive issues, etc. What I have learned this year is that every function and issue we have in the body....unless it is an acute injury.....is related to the gut. When inflammation is present in the gut, there will be inflammation present elsewhere in the body, which can lead to very serious issues down the road if left unattended.
When you read the label of your feed and/or supplements, if in the ingredient list there are vitamins and minerals listed such as Calcium, Magnesium, Phosphorous, etc.....these are not naturally occuring vitamins and minerals. These sythetics are added to the ration to try to balance the vit/min levels, and are also proven to be contributing factors to the inflammation in the hind gut. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Herbie, are all added vitamins/minerals in commercial mixes synthetic? What about mineral blocks? |
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 Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Nevertooold - 2015-09-29 1:44 PM I couldn't find the info but realized it went back to the early 1980's and it started with dog food and she expanded from there. She actually did jail time standing behind her findings and beliefs.
I had some great info about vitamins and minerals and our farm fields being over used and the effect it has on us and our animals. She also had a great paper about the One a Day vitamins how worthless they were.
I have learned that if you find a really good article on the internet, you better make a hard copy as many of the good articles I have found in the past have now disappeared from the internet.
Search using:
http://www.googlescholar.com |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Tdove - 2015-09-29 1:39 PM Herbie, are all added vitamins/minerals in commercial mixes synthetic? What about mineral blocks?
Tdove, if they are added to the ration to balance it and listed as the actual vitamin or mineral on the ingredients list, then yes, they are synthetic. I'm not sure about mineral blocks, as I don't use them, but my guess is that yes, they too are synthetics as well.
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Here's some good info.
It's interesting to read about synthetic vitamins and minerals.
http://www.biostarus.com/Equine-WholeFoodDiet-a/267.htm
Grains are sorted at processing plants and graded. Superior graded grains go to human consumption. Lower graded grains go to animal consumption. By- products of the processing (soy hulls, wheat middlings for instance) become inexpensive fillers for horse feed. Because the grains for animals are nutritionally lower than the human graded grains, feed companies must add synthetic additives to provide nutrients. These synthetic additives (including vitamins) are made from coal tar derivatives, petroleum extracts, acetone, formaldehyde, and irradiated cattle brains (vitamin D). The processing of the grains themselves can expose the grains to temperatures exceeding 450 degrees. Enzymes and other nutrients can’t survive in temperatures exceeding 145 degrees.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 576
| herbie, so how do you be sure your horse is getting what it needs besides good quality forage? |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 883
Location: Southern Indiana | It turned me off when I saw liquid 747 had d-activated animal sterol listed as an ingredient. I will now only feed THE if I want a vitamin/mineral supplement. |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | This is a great explanation.
http://www.equiworld.net/feeding/articles/o/traceminerals.htm
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | kaleydanielle - 2015-09-29 2:06 PM herbie, so how do you be sure your horse is getting what it needs besides good quality forage? I was forced to find a better way, as I was looking at having to euthanize my horse. I didn't go this route at first, as I too was skeptical, but I can tell you that if your horse's hindgut is working like it should, he will utilize everything he eats. I stumbled across the Cur-OST company when googling and trying to find ways to help my horse. Dr. Schell, the creator of the product, is the one who I credit for getting me on this path and taking the time to explain things in terms I can wrap my pea brain around.
I have never tested my hay, but I do feed alfalfa once daily, 2 flakes (the other half of the day my horses go out on grass). I feed 1 pound of whole oats once daily and only use the oats as a medium in which to mix my Cur-Ost. The oats are not intended to be a source of nutrition necessarily. As far as me knowing if he's getting everything he needs......the proof is in the pudding for me. I know my horse and have seen him at his worst. So many of the issues we had even before he got sick are gone, and he's a completely different horse than before. We went on a trail ride this past Sunday and some of my friends who haven't seen him since last year were blown away at how different he is not only physically but mentally as well.
Edited by Herbie 2015-09-29 2:24 PM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 617
Location: London Ontario | Other then THE and Cur-Ost are there any other supplements? |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Herbie - 2015-09-29 12:20 PM
kaleydanielle - 2015-09-29 2:06 PM herbie, so how do you be sure your horse is getting what it needs besides good quality forage? I was forced to find a better way, as I was looking at having to euthanize my horse.  I didn't go this route at first, as I too was skeptical, but I can tell you that if your horse's hindgut is working like it should, he will utilize everything he eats. I stumbled across the Cur-OST company when googling and trying to find ways to help my horse.  Dr. Schell, the creator of the product, is the one who I credit for getting me on this path and taking the time to explain things in terms I can wrap my pea brain around. Â
I have never tested my hay, but I do feed alfalfa once daily, 2 flakes (the other half of the day my horses go out on grass). I feed 1 pound of whole oats once daily and only use the oats as a medium in which to mix my Cur-Ost. The oats are not intended to be a source of nutrition necessarily. As far as me knowing if he's getting everything he needs......the proof is in the pudding for me. I know my horse and have seen him at his worst. So many of the issues we had even before he got sick are gone, and he's a completely different horse than before. We went on a trail ride this past Sunday and some of my friends who haven't seen him since last year were blown away at how different he is not only physically but mentally as well. Â
Hey Herbie! He looks like he should be tied to my trailer!!! He would fit right in!  |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| MC1993 - 2015-09-29 2:27 PM
Other then THE and Cur-Ost are there any other supplements?
Yes, I believe Standard Process is. They are whole food supplements for people and horses. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Herbie - 2015-09-29 2:20 PM
kaleydanielle - 2015-09-29 2:06 PM herbie, so how do you be sure your horse is getting what it needs besides good quality forage? I was forced to find a better way, as I was looking at having to euthanize my horse.  I didn't go this route at first, as I too was skeptical, but I can tell you that if your horse's hindgut is working like it should, he will utilize everything he eats. I stumbled across the Cur-OST company when googling and trying to find ways to help my horse.  Dr. Schell, the creator of the product, is the one who I credit for getting me on this path and taking the time to explain things in terms I can wrap my pea brain around. Â
I have never tested my hay, but I do feed alfalfa once daily, 2 flakes (the other half of the day my horses go out on grass). I feed 1 pound of whole oats once daily and only use the oats as a medium in which to mix my Cur-Ost. The oats are not intended to be a source of nutrition necessarily. As far as me knowing if he's getting everything he needs......the proof is in the pudding for me. I know my horse and have seen him at his worst. So many of the issues we had even before he got sick are gone, and he's a completely different horse than before. We went on a trail ride this past Sunday and some of my friends who haven't seen him since last year were blown away at how different he is not only physically but mentally as well. Â
Herbie, I am very much a believer in the proof is in the pudding. I have been testing the conventional wisdom of feeding and continue to do so and learn. I want to share the reason that I am asking. Over the years, I have come to think that byproducts are void of many vitamins and mineral and thus this has to be added back into the ration. While I certainly did not believe in the low quality nutrition of byproducts, I had never really questioned the healthiness of the added minerals, until your posts on the subject. Since then I have been thinking about my experiences and some of the effects I have seen of my feeding program that I couldn't exactly explain.
Since switching and developing the Omnis cube, we have been able to reduce how much we fed and never seen our horses healthier. It has been a year a half since we have given them a vitamin/mineral. We did have this one filly that was always a very hard keeper. She suffered from ulcer symptoms and was always prone to being really sore. Even after we switched to Omnis, we gave her extra commercial concentrate to keep her weight and somewhat condition. About 5 months ago, we finally decided to take her off of everything but Omnis. She has since bloomed and her soreness and ulcer symptoms have gone away. She now looks just as good as the rest.
This has really got me to thinking about the synthetic minerals and I am now thinking that was the issue. Many times people are questioning of us not feeding a vitamin/mineral supplement. But again, the proof is in the pudding and I am wanting to learn about this more, because mineral supplementation is EVERYWHERE.
Edited by Tdove 2015-09-29 2:52 PM
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
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For the people giving cur-ost and tdove, do your horses get free choice minerals? Do you give your horses salt? |
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | cheryl makofka - 2015-09-29 2:49 PM Question For the people giving cur-ost and tdove, do your horses get free choice minerals? Do you give your horses salt?
I do have salt blocks out in every pen and in every stall. I don't have loose minerals out. The salt blocks haven't been touched all summer by any of my horses. |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | On the show horses in stalls, we don't give them any kind of mineral or salt block. All of the horses get 19-24 lbs of Omnis and nothing else whatsoever. There is some added salt and natural mineral in the cubes via sodium bentonite. The whole oats and whole flax balance the alfalfa nicely and alfalfa is very nutrient dense and the Candian soils are very rich in nutrients as well. This is not an advertisement for Omnis. It is just my experience and what we feed. However, I do feel the Canadian soils are giving us high levels of bloom. We have seen that in both the baled hay and cubes we have fed compared to local or other sources.
Here is my proof is in the pudding (The horse I was talking about in previous posts is the buckskin in the first picture. She has filled out even more now)
Edited by Tdove 2015-09-29 4:21 PM
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Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | Tdove - 2015-09-29 3:58 PM On the show horses in stalls, we don't give them any kind of mineral or salt block. All of the horses get 19-24 lbs of Omnis and nothing else whatsoever. There is some added salt and natural mineral in the cubes via sodium bentonite. The whole oats and whole flax balance the alfalfa nicely and alfalfa is very nutrient dense and the Candian soils are very rich in nutrients as well. This is not an advertisement for Omnis. It is just my experience and what we feed. However, I do feel the Canadian soils are giving us high levels of bloom. We have seen that in both the baled hay and cubes we have fed compared to local or other sources. Here is my proof is in the pudding (The horse I was talking about in previous posts is the buckskin in the first picture. She has filled out even more now)
In the words of the great poet, Billy Currington  , "Must be doin' something right......."! And those horses are sexier than that video. HAHA Very nice, Tdove! |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Tdove - 2015-09-29 3:58 PM
On the show horses in stalls, we don't give them any kind of mineral or salt block. All of the horses get 19-24 lbs of Omnis and nothing else whatsoever. There is some added salt and natural mineral in the cubes via sodium bentonite. The whole oats and whole flax balance the alfalfa nicely and alfalfa is very nutrient dense and the Candian soils are very rich in nutrients as well. This is not an advertisement for Omnis. It is just my experience and what we feed. However, I do feel the Canadian soils are giving us high levels of bloom. We have seen that in both the baled hay and cubes we have fed compared to local or other sources.
Here is my proof is in the pudding (The horse I was talking about in previous posts is the buckskin in the first picture. She has filled out even more now)
Not all Canadian soils are rich in nutrients.
Where I live we have absolutely no selenium, to the point if we don't administer selenium to cows, and horses, we see the deficiency immediately in the offspring.
Also in our crops we don't fertilize, we rotate crops. |
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