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| Just wondering if anyone starts their Colts in a martingale right off the bat, and what are the benefits of doing that? |
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Addicted to Baseball
 
Location: Where the stars at night are big and bright, TX | No, and absolutely none. |
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Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24952
Location: WYOMING | Cant think of one benefit. |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| Maybe teach them not to throw their head and accept the bit? Sounds better than throwing a tie down on one after its "trained"... |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Nope. |
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  Northern Chocolate Queen
Posts: 16576
Location: ND | There is no good reason to go to using training aids without first giving the colt a chance to learn and figure out what you want. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| I have ridden my horses a few time then put a running martingale on them for the past 40 years. My horses are always very ligth and supple. I send my horses to a guy that breaks them now and I think he uses a running martingale. He puts 30 rides on them and then they go to another trainer. She always starts with a German martingale to get control of their shoulders and hips. Good way to get them head broke. I have one horse off the track that I did not ride with a running martingale that anyone would say is dead broke BUT he is not head broke. He counter arcs and anything else you ask for but is NOT head broke. |
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 Proud to be Deplorable
Posts: 1929
| I don't start colts any more ( to darn old LOL) but when I did I rarely used a running martingale. However after the first few rides I always used a training fork until the colt was ready to move on from a snaffle. I found it much easier to teach body placement. I would add that if you don't have light hands I would suggest you don't use either. To me they are good tools if you know how to use them. |
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Expert
Posts: 3300
| no way teach them how to break in the face the right way |
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| So, 99% on here say to train them "correctly" but 95% run in a tie down to correct a training issue...
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Itsme - 2015-10-04 4:43 PM
So, 99% on here say to train them "correctly" but 95% run in a tie down to correct a training issue...
Hey man I don't like tie downs either. If the horse is trained and ridden right there is no use for them. I feel the same way with standing martingales in the hunter world. |
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| The problem with any type of martingale or tie down is the horse owner // trainer misunderstanding how to use one. They are not to tie a horses head down with face perpendicular to the ground like the ones you see all the time in the arena ..
German martingales have adjustment holes to set at correct length all the others are dependent on rider having soft hands and knowing the purpose of the martingale .... tie downers just want to suck that head down between old horses legs thinking this gives them control of their horse ..
A running horse needs to stick his nose out to run or use his head for balance when making a turn and there is no such thing as a horse being collected while running ... remember the old saying... A HORSE WILL FOLLOW HIS NOSE ....
Pay attention to the top dawgs and how they use them ... they are used loosely with enough slack so a horse bumps his nose if his jaw line gets above his withers .... and a perfect fit is when horse learns they can use it for head balance making their turns.
Next to barrel racers and ropers the worst abusers are race track exercise riders .. they will have horses chin pressed against chest while doing his weekly training gallops which is comfortable rocking chair ride for the exercise rider and is Ok with horse because he is learning how to run slow instead of working at full stride length. Trainers and owners seem to be perfectly dumb how their horse won their first couple of races and then will lose their explosive speed due to how they are being exercised ... this is when they start using drugs, miracle supplements and joint injections .. sound familiar??
Barrel racing and track racing has one similarity ... both are controlled stampedes with crazy eyed fearless riders trying to kill themselves .... lol ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-10-05 1:24 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-05 1:17 AM The problem with any type of martingale or tie down is the horse owner // trainer misunderstanding how to use one. They are not to tie a horses head down with face perpendicular to the ground like the ones you see all the time in the arena .. German martingales have adjustment holes to set at correct length all the others are dependent on rider having soft hands and knowing the purpose of the martingale .... tie downers just want to suck that head down between old horses legs thinking this gives them control of their horse .. A running horse needs to stick his nose out to run or use his head for balance when making a turn and there is no such thing as a horse being collected while running ... remember the old saying... A HORSE WILL FOLLOW HIS NOSE .... Pay attention to the top dawgs and how they use them ... they are used loosely with enough slack so a horse bumps his nose if his jaw line gets above his withers .... and a perfect fit is when horse learns they can use it for head balance making their turns. Next to barrel racers and ropers the worst abusers are race track exercise riders .. they will have horses chin pressed against chest while doing his weekly training gallops which is comfortable rocking chair ride for the exercise rider and is Ok with horse because he is learning how to run slow instead of working at full stride length. Trainers and owners seem to be perfectly dumb how their horse won their first couple of races and then will lose their explosive speed due to how they are being exercised ... this is when they start using drugs, miracle supplements and joint injections .. sound familiar?? Barrel racing and track racing has one similarity ... both are controlled stampedes with crazy eyed fearless riders trying to kill themselves .... lol ..
Absolutely a horse can be collected while running. You can teach the horse to do it themselves naturally or you can carry them (much harder to do and a bad idea). Tucking the horse's nose in IS NOT COLLECTION. And collection is not just a shorter stride. Most newbies, and I was one of them, believe that collection starts with their nose. It doesn't. It begins in their hind end. Collection involves a horse driving with their hind end and then lightening their front end. When you see one just running hell for leather in a straight line you might think its impossible to have one collect themselves but see a well trained horse (even with head up--NOT STARGAZING) correctly gather for a barrel turn (without dropping their shoulder or running past), martingale or no martingale, and you will see a horse correctly using collection AT A RUN.
"you don't try to pull a horse's head down, but rather push it down (from the leg). Riding a horse from back to front, leg to hand is the classical and proper way to help a horse find self-carriage. . . . When horses find their balance and center under the rider, their head will find its proper position naturally." --adapted from George Morris
Edited by oija 2015-10-05 11:20 AM
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| oija - 2015-10-05 11:18 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-05 1:17 AM The problem with any type of martingale or tie down is the horse owner // trainer misunderstanding how to use one. They are not to tie a horses head down with face perpendicular to the ground like the ones you see all the time in the arena .. German martingales have adjustment holes to set at correct length all the others are dependent on rider having soft hands and knowing the purpose of the martingale .... tie downers just want to suck that head down between old horses legs thinking this gives them control of their horse .. A running horse needs to stick his nose out to run or use his head for balance when making a turn and there is no such thing as a horse being collected while running ... remember the old saying... A HORSE WILL FOLLOW HIS NOSE .... Pay attention to the top dawgs and how they use them ... they are used loosely with enough slack so a horse bumps his nose if his jaw line gets above his withers .... and a perfect fit is when horse learns they can use it for head balance making their turns. Next to barrel racers and ropers the worst abusers are race track exercise riders .. they will have horses chin pressed against chest while doing his weekly training gallops which is comfortable rocking chair ride for the exercise rider and is Ok with horse because he is learning how to run slow instead of working at full stride length. Trainers and owners seem to be perfectly dumb how their horse won their first couple of races and then will lose their explosive speed due to how they are being exercised ... this is when they start using drugs, miracle supplements and joint injections .. sound familiar?? Barrel racing and track racing has one similarity ... both are controlled stampedes with crazy eyed fearless riders trying to kill themselves .... lol ..
Absolutely a horse can be collected while running. You can teach the horse to do it themselves naturally or you can carry them (much harder to do and a bad idea ). Tucking the horse's nose in IS NOT COLLECTION. And collection is not just a shorter stride. Most newbies, and I was one of them, believe that collection starts with their nose. It doesn't. It begins in their hind end. Collection involves a horse driving with their hind end and then lightening their front end. When you see one just running hell for leather in a straight line you might think its impossible to have one collect themselves but see a well trained horse (even with head up--NOT STARGAZING ) correctly gather for a barrel turn (without dropping their shoulder or running past ), martingale or no martingale, and you will see a horse correctly using collection AT A RUN. "you don't try to pull a horse's head down, but rather push it down (from the leg ). Riding a horse from back to front, leg to hand is the classical and proper way to help a horse find self-carriage. . . . When horses find their balance and center under the rider, their head will find its proper position naturally." --adapted from George Morris
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Itsme - 2015-10-04 4:43 PM
So, 99% on here say to train them "correctly" but 95% run in a tie down to correct a training issue...
Evidently you have never been around anyone who used a tie down correctly. I have one horse and he is not the first, that because of the way his neck ties in to his body that runs in a tie down. We use to use them on these butt dragging horses for the horse to brace against, not to correct some problem. My trainer just put a loose tie down on my three year old for her to brace against. She is a big tall butt dragging girl. I can assure your she does not have some kind of training problem.
As far as the German Martingale, just about everyone of the futurity trainers around here use them at some point in time. They certainly help you get control of the shoulders and hips so that you have complete control when you are running full blast. If they don't work for you don't use them. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| GLP - 2015-10-05 11:22 AM
oija - 2015-10-05 11:18 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-05 1:17 AM The problem with any type of martingale or tie down is the horse owner // trainer misunderstanding how to use one. They are not to tie a horses head down with face perpendicular to the ground like the ones you see all the time in the arena .. German martingales have adjustment holes to set at correct length all the others are dependent on rider having soft hands and knowing the purpose of the martingale .... tie downers just want to suck that head down between old horses legs thinking this gives them control of their horse .. A running horse needs to stick his nose out to run or use his head for balance when making a turn and there is no such thing as a horse being collected while running ... remember the old saying... A HORSE WILL FOLLOW HIS NOSE .... Pay attention to the top dawgs and how they use them ... they are used loosely with enough slack so a horse bumps his nose if his jaw line gets above his withers .... and a perfect fit is when horse learns they can use it for head balance making their turns. Next to barrel racers and ropers the worst abusers are race track exercise riders .. they will have horses chin pressed against chest while doing his weekly training gallops which is comfortable rocking chair ride for the exercise rider and is Ok with horse because he is learning how to run slow instead of working at full stride length. Trainers and owners seem to be perfectly dumb how their horse won their first couple of races and then will lose their explosive speed due to how they are being exercised ... this is when they start using drugs, miracle supplements and joint injections .. sound familiar?? Barrel racing and track racing has one similarity ... both are controlled stampedes with crazy eyed fearless riders trying to kill themselves .... lol ..
Absolutely a horse can be collected while running. You can teach the horse to do it themselves naturally or you can carry them (much harder to do and a bad idea ). Tucking the horse's nose in IS NOT COLLECTION. And collection is not just a shorter stride. Most newbies, and I was one of them, believe that collection starts with their nose. It doesn't. It begins in their hind end. Collection involves a horse driving with their hind end and then lightening their front end. When you see one just running hell for leather in a straight line you might think its impossible to have one collect themselves but see a well trained horse (even with head up--NOT STARGAZING ) correctly gather for a barrel turn (without dropping their shoulder or running past ), martingale or no martingale, and you will see a horse correctly using collection AT A RUN. "you don't try to pull a horse's head down, but rather push it down (from the leg ). Riding a horse from back to front, leg to hand is the classical and proper way to help a horse find self-carriage. . . . When horses find their balance and center under the rider, their head will find its proper position naturally." --adapted from George Morris
This is EXACTLY what I am saying. Horses running flat out ARE not collected. Yes we use tie downs on aour butt dragging horses to balance on. Thanks Barrelhorse.
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 Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | I do my first few rides with a rope halter and they are already starting to give through their face and they're not high headed. Same thing when I put them in the bit. If they're started right on the ground they're not as high headed under saddle, they're softer, and they're more relaxed anyhow.
To me, I try to simplify the first few months of riding so they're not overwhelmed. I would think slapping a martingale on a colt that didn't even know what it's doing would be a bit overwhelming, and frustrating to a young horse that's more sensitive and you have to be careful with.
As far riding with a Martingale, years ago before I knew better in used them to teach a horse to lower their head. Now I teach them to round their back without anything and the head automatically comes down. The only time I use them is to help them keep consistent while they're working on something else but I don't use it to teach or get an end result.
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Expert
Posts: 1561
| streakysox - 2015-10-05 1:27 PM
Itsme - 2015-10-04 4:43 PM
So, 99% on here say to train them "correctly" but 95% run in a tie down to correct a training issue...
Evidently you have never been around anyone who used a tie down correctly.
Yes I have, 5% of them use them correctly. The rest use them to mask a training issue, that works temporarily then morphs into another problem so they try another quick fix... |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | We don't start horses in either.. I don't think that could ever be a good idea, actually quite the opposite. I am not a barrel trainer, but I don't see much advantage for them in that context. One thing I can say is that martingales are typically only used to punish a horse rooting the nose or inverting, especially a stop. So, if you use them to leverage brace a horse up, a lot of times you take it away and the result is worse than if you never had used it. That happens all of the time and I see it quite often in all disciplines that are using them. Let it out loose and to only engage if your horse gets totally out of frame for what you are wanting. Then if your horse is riding correctly, it will never feel it.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-05 3:16 PM
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| streakysox - 2015-10-05 1:31 PM
GLP - 2015-10-05 11:22 AM
oija - 2015-10-05 11:18 AM
BARRELHORSE USA - 2015-10-05 1:17 AM The problem with any type of martingale or tie down is the horse owner // trainer misunderstanding how to use one. They are not to tie a horses head down with face perpendicular to the ground like the ones you see all the time in the arena .. German martingales have adjustment holes to set at correct length all the others are dependent on rider having soft hands and knowing the purpose of the martingale .... tie downers just want to suck that head down between old horses legs thinking this gives them control of their horse .. A running horse needs to stick his nose out to run or use his head for balance when making a turn and there is no such thing as a horse being collected while running ... remember the old saying... A HORSE WILL FOLLOW HIS NOSE .... Pay attention to the top dawgs and how they use them ... they are used loosely with enough slack so a horse bumps his nose if his jaw line gets above his withers .... and a perfect fit is when horse learns they can use it for head balance making their turns. Next to barrel racers and ropers the worst abusers are race track exercise riders .. they will have horses chin pressed against chest while doing his weekly training gallops which is comfortable rocking chair ride for the exercise rider and is Ok with horse because he is learning how to run slow instead of working at full stride length. Trainers and owners seem to be perfectly dumb how their horse won their first couple of races and then will lose their explosive speed due to how they are being exercised ... this is when they start using drugs, miracle supplements and joint injections .. sound familiar?? Barrel racing and track racing has one similarity ... both are controlled stampedes with crazy eyed fearless riders trying to kill themselves .... lol ..
Absolutely a horse can be collected while running. You can teach the horse to do it themselves naturally or you can carry them (much harder to do and a bad idea ). Tucking the horse's nose in IS NOT COLLECTION. And collection is not just a shorter stride. Most newbies, and I was one of them, believe that collection starts with their nose. It doesn't. It begins in their hind end. Collection involves a horse driving with their hind end and then lightening their front end. When you see one just running hell for leather in a straight line you might think its impossible to have one collect themselves but see a well trained horse (even with head up--NOT STARGAZING ) correctly gather for a barrel turn (without dropping their shoulder or running past ), martingale or no martingale, and you will see a horse correctly using collection AT A RUN. "you don't try to pull a horse's head down, but rather push it down (from the leg ). Riding a horse from back to front, leg to hand is the classical and proper way to help a horse find self-carriage. . . . When horses find their balance and center under the rider, their head will find its proper position naturally." --adapted from George Morris
This is EXACTLY what I am saying. Horses running flat out ARE not collected. Yes we use tie downs on aour butt dragging horses to balance on. Thanks Barrelhorse.
HELLO ALL MY FRIENDS ON BHW ...
meet GEORGE MORRIS and follow his training tips at your next BARREL JUMPING EVENT ....
http://www.ghmclinics.com/
NOW DON'T GET TOO EXCITED WITH ENTHUSIASM AS YOU LISTEN TO GEORGE...
https://youtu.be/eGk7aAJdCRY
BREAKING NEWS ...!!!
OWNERS ACCUSED OF CHEATING BY RUNNING A COLLECTED HORSE
AT BELMONT PARK RACE COURSE !!...
OWNERS: NYC MAFIA
https://youtu.be/_uQOchrK7NA
Have a NICE LAUGH ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2015-10-05 11:25 PM
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