|
|
Expert
Posts: 1905
  
Location: PICAYUNE,MS | What do you look for in a horse feed? I'm currently feeding strategy but was looking at the safe choice and it looks like all the same stuff in it ? | |
| | |
 Jr. Detective
  
Location: Beggs, OK | Neither are a good choice ultimately. The only horses that I've ever seen look good on them are also getting excellent quality alfalfa, so you really can't attribute their condition to the feed in the first place.
Concentrates are not necessary. Good quality forage is the most important aspect of equine nutrition. | |
| | |
  Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | For me it depends on the horse and if they have issues. If they're hot or have ulcers, no molasses and no beet pulp, and added digestive nutrients,.magnesium. If it's weight I look at fat content but I add a lot of fat anyhow. PSSM low starch levels, no corn and high fat..If they have feet issues, I look for magnesium, methionine, biotin. I have fed regular Strategy with good results. | |
| | |
 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Rachel is right on. Strategy and Safe Choice are about the same feed to me. My opinion is a general rule, the best forage you can find (bales, cubes, pellets) and plenty of it. Then add concentrates.
Here is the biggest problem I have with the big feed companies. They have the best interest of their pocket books in mind before yours or your horses health. Here is an example: Purina has a feed calculator. If I put in a performance horse at moderate activity level and weighing at 1100 lbs, this is what Purina tells me to do:
Feed 13 lbs of hay daily along with various amounts of their feed:
Strategy...................10lbs
Strategy GX.............8.5lbs
Omalene 200..............8lbs
Omalene 500..........7.75lbs
Race Ready.............7.75lbs
Ultium....................6.75lbs
Equine Active Senior.....8lbs
This assumes grass hay and 13lbs is not that much. That is only 1.18% body weight in hay a day. While a horse on free choice hay will eat around 3% body weight daily. Is it any wonder why horse's have so many health problems?
Purina is telling you how to feed so that you feed less hay and more of their expensive and profit laden products. Most nutritionist work for a feed company. Most professors used to work for a feed company. Big feed companies provide colleges with a big portion of their money. So, now you can see why feeding horses has changed and why we have all been taught to feed less hay and a lot of concentrate. Even to horses that are better off with no concentrate, Purina tells me to do the same and feed one of their specialized products. To me, we need to relearn a lot of things with at least 80% of the total diet in forage.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-07 10:26 AM
| |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 1525
| I have to agree with the above posts...there is no substitution for good quality forage...that being said I feed the Safechoice Perfomance. I started feeding 2 years ago. I switched from Ultium and from Senior. I can say that my horses are a lot easier keepers and i am not having to feed very much of it. Ultium was a great feed...it was expenisive, and after a horse of mine had colic surgery the vet was feeding Safechoice while he was in recovery at the clinic...and so I never switched. He is kind of a "hot" horse and I liked the Ultium because it would "time release" energy instead of dump it all at once...but the Safechoice Performance has kept that same effect, except even better, and my horses really seem to be able to absorb those nutrients better than any of the other feeds I have tried. We have really good alfalfa here...but I have a gelding with a TB metabolism who can be stupid fat and after three runs shrink up like he's been on the track for a year...and instead of having to wait 4 to 5 weeks to see a legit change in body type when he starts to lose...I can see a big difference in 2 to 3 weeks. Just my personal opinion but I really like it. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I am not saying that any of these are good or bad. But whatever you choose, feed plenty of the best forage available to you and then look for the concentrate of your choice. There are a lot of choices. Read up on the ingredient and choose one that you feel is the best for what you want to feed your horse. Their are a ton of differing opinions for horse feeds.
Everyone wants to talk about this feed or that feed. No one looks first at their forage quality or how much of that they are feeding. To me this is an opportunity to think about it first and use a concentrate like they are supposed to be used.
Edited by Tdove 2015-10-07 10:51 AM
| |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1207
| While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3. | |
| | |
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3.
This mare is on 100% Omnis cubes only...No hay. No grain. No supplements. She looks and feels better than she has in the two years that we have owned her. She is also only 13.3 and running 1D times, so energy is obviously not an issue.
 (Hotbox Shine.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
 Hotbox Shine.jpg (58KB - 151 downloads)
| |
| | |
 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | With many of the feed mills having issues, I pulled my horses off Safe Choice. I switched to Blue Bonnet. But, I wanted to simplify my feed program. My horses are on round bales of bermuda. They get alfalfa pellets and Adeptus Augment as their vitamin/mineral supplement in the pellets. They are all dappled and feeling good. I'm a believer that less is more. I doubt I will ever be switching back to processed feed. | |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | That is certainly true. Sometimes it is hard to find good forage. I use the term forage because that encompasses pasture, baled hay, cubed hay, or hay pellets. I would disagree with you that baled hay is better than other sources, cubes or pellets, necessarily. I think the quality of forage and how they are processed makes the biggest difference. Overall, I believe cubes are the best forage for my own reasons, but none of them are bad, as long as quality is high.
I have access to any hay that I want. I feed cubes because I think they are the best. In some situations, I do use hay, but that is mostly a labor, time, and storage issue.
Of course this is all personal preference. You can choose to feed all hay, cubes, even some pellets, or a combination of those if you choose. If I had only access to marginal hay. I would either substitute all or some of it with pellets or cubes over feeding more of a prepared concentrate. But you don't have to. I am not saying if you feed 13lbs of grass hay and 10lbs of Strategy that you are feeding inappropriately. Just realize their are other options and consider those as well. It may be that is exactly what you choose to do. | |
| | |
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | rachellyn80 - 2015-10-07 10:50 AM Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3. This mare is on 100% Omnis cubes only...No hay. No grain. No supplements. She looks and feels better than she has in the two years that we have owned her. She is also only 13.3 and running 1D times, so energy is obviously not an issue.
This is my 28 year old mare. She only has teeth in the front and has always been a feeding challenge. We keep Omnis cubes in a water tub in her shed so that she can eat when she wants to. Hay is not an option for her and she can graze on the cubes instead.
 (Lani.jpg)
Attachments
----------------
Lani.jpg (38KB - 136 downloads)
| |
| | |
Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Mine are on 2lbs/day Progressive Nutrition's Grass Balancer but after this batch is done I'm going off concentrate feeds all together. If I WERE in the market for a feed, this is what I look for:
-Fixed formula
-NO corn
-High Fiber
-Low-moderate starch depending on feeding rate (ex. oats are fairly starchy but I only feed 2lbs a day vs some other pellet feeds that may have a little less starch but are fed at double or triple the amount)
-Moderate-high fat depending on feeding rate (like above, in a feed that I feed a few lbs of/day I want some fat but not a ton. RG which I only feed at a rate of .5-1lb/day is very high in fat)
-Low feeding rate (I don't believe in feeding more than 6-8lbs grain/day, but less is always better.
-Reasonable Omega 6's. All grains are going to be higher in omega 6's but some are higher than others. The lower the % the better.
ETA- I have absolutely no control over the hay at my barn (I board) and it's usually not impressive. Not like unsafe but just lots of random grasses mixed together and not always consistent. My horses look fine in spite of this so if you can't get the BEST hay out there don't worry, do what you can with what you have. That's why I like adding the alfalfa and beet pulp. If I could get Omnis cubes up here you freakin bet I would!
Edited by cavyrunsbarrels 2015-10-07 3:20 PM
| |
| | |
Expert
Posts: 1207
| Yes she does look good. Is she in a pen by herself? Not trying to argue with you, but for some the Omnis cubes may not be an option as they are not found or carried everywhere. Mine are on Bluebonnet and until I can find a better solution will probably stay on Bluebonnet. I also feed the cubes but get from Tractor Supply and the 2 that are shall we say maybe a bit overweight they only get enough soaked so their THE sticks to get. They are all on pasture and fed hay when the pasture is not there as in the winter. | |
| | |
 Pork Fat is my Favorite
Posts: 3791
Location: The Oklahoma plains. | Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3.
First and foremost I think safety is what a person should look for in horse feed. (research where your feed or hay products are processed)
I agree with Sandok. As mentioned by a few others on this post- good quality forage is most important (IMO) but most people I know dont even test their hay, ever, much less each year.  It can vary so much from your average google search of what Bermuda hay says it provides, believe me.
And while we have horses that are forage only, you might check in to a ration calculator as putting all your faith in one sole product may be skipping much needed nutrients like the Cal/phos ratio or selenenium for example. | |
| | |
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 456
Location: SW MO | rachellyn80 - 2015-10-07 11:03 AM
rachellyn80 - 2015-10-07 10:50 AM Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3. This mare is on 100% Omnis cubes only...No hay. No grain. No supplements. She looks and feels better than she has in the two years that we have owned her. She is also only 13.3 and running 1D times, so energy is obviously not an issue.
rachellyn80 I'm not trying to hijack this post but are your horses on pasture too? I am thinking of switching to alfalfa cubes or pellets but Omnis cubes are not available in my area.... | |
| | |
Twin Sister to Queen Boobie
Posts: 13315
Location: East Tennessee but who knows?! | Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3. This is true. It also depends on what your finances & your storage space are. It's much harder to find excellent hay in small amounts that's a consistent supply, which is one of the reasons I don't feed top quality hay.
From a pricing standpoint, if I fed straight cubes and no feed, no hay it would take 3 bags a week -- $45 per week **per horse** not counting supplements. Keep in mind I have 9 horses. That's $405 PER WEEK, $1,600 per month!!
Strategy costs compared - $180 feed and $90 week on regular hay- big difference!! (10 bags feed per week, 30 bales of grass hay).
I meet in the middle and feed a decent feed, decent grass hay, and add a little cubes and beet pulp to help my cost down. I feed rice bran & remission to one's with feet issues. All of mine look good.and feel good -- we are called the fat farm by our farrier if that gives you any clue.lol
Edited by Fairweather 2015-10-07 12:24 PM
| |
| | |
Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Fairweather - 2015-10-07 12:23 PM
Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3. This is true. It also depends on what your finances & your storage space are. It's much harder to find excellent hay in small amounts that's a consistent supply, which is one of the reasons I don't feed top quality hay. From a pricing standpoint, if I fed straight cubes and no feed, no hay it would take 3 bags a week -- $45 per week **per horse** not counting supplements. Keep in mind I have 9 horses. That's $405 PER WEEK, $1,600 per month!!Strategy costs compared - $180 feed and $90 week on regular hay- big difference!! (10 bags feed per week, 30 bales of grass hay).I meet in the middle and feed a decent feed, decent grass hay, and add a little cubes and beet pulp to help my cost down. I feed rice bran & remission to one's with feet issues. All of mine look good.and feel good -- we are called the fat farm by our farrier if that gives you any clue.lol
What do the cubes cost you and how much do they weigh?
How much is the hay you buy and how much does it weigh? The numbers are confusing to me. It looks like your grain cost $18/bag. That's where the comparison doesn't make sense to me. At least I am not following the thought process. Surely the cubes cost less than the Strategy and using them would help you lower the amount of Startegy fed, which would lower your costs, right? | |
| | |
Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I get my 50 pounds of alfalfa pellets for 7.99 a bag. Each horse gets 5 pounds a day. I'm also going through 1 round bale every 10 days with one group of 3 horses and every 3-4 weeks with the other 2. My Augment vitamin/mineral is $92 for 160 days. | |
| | |
Jr. Detective
Location: Beggs, OK | Mzbradford - 2015-10-07 12:20 PM rachellyn80 - 2015-10-07 11:03 AM rachellyn80 - 2015-10-07 10:50 AM Sandok - 2015-10-07 10:45 AM While I agree with the above posts, in part, in some parts of the country it is not always so easy to get "good quality hay/forage". Yes you can always feed cubes, beet pulp, but still does not replace hay. In my opinion only. In Kansas I had good access to good prairie hay and never had an issue hardly with anything. Now here in Oklahoma it is getting harder and harder to find good quality "horse" hay. There is a lot of it this year after the rains and flooding we had in June but most hay fields were water logged and the first cutting was maybe not so good. Second cutting is better. So as to your question about horse feed also I think depends on how you are using them, age, physical condition, hair coat, feet, do you need weight on them, weight off them. I have 3 and 2 of them need to lose weight while my older senior guy needs to either put some on or maintain. So hard to get a feed that is for all 3. This mare is on 100% Omnis cubes only...No hay. No grain. No supplements. She looks and feels better than she has in the two years that we have owned her. She is also only 13.3 and running 1D times, so energy is obviously not an issue. rachellyn80 I'm not trying to hijack this post but are your horses on pasture too? I am thinking of switching to alfalfa cubes or pellets but Omnis cubes are not available in my area....
Some are and some aren't. The bay mare in the picture get a little turnout time on grass, but mostly she is in a dry pen. | |
| | |
 Expert
Posts: 5290
| PA-LEASE help me get Omnis cubes out here to CA!!!!!! With my curost I think my horses would look even more amazing if thats even possible!! I really wish we could just order a big pallet of them or something. I would sooooooo do it!!! I am tired of my horses wasting hay... lol | |
| |
| |
Folks on-line