|
|
 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
   
Location: Louisiana | I'm no breeding expert. Is this considered linebreeding or inbreeding?
Half siblings, each by First Down Dash, with completely unrelated maternal sides. Both performers and producers. Too close, or potential great cross??
This is hypothetical and any opinions are appreciated. It won't hurt my feelings if you tell me I'm crazy lol. I honestly don't have much experience breeding and am wanting to learn more. Looking into purchasing a proven broodmare or two to breed to proven studs as a new adventure. |
|
| |
|
The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| Are you talking direct sons and daughters of FDD?
I have bred grand get of FDD, and don't think it is too much.
|
|
| |
|
Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | cheryl makofka - 2015-11-01 3:44 PM
Are you talking direct sons and daughters of FDD?
I have bred grand get of FDD, and don't think it is too much.
Yes, an own son and own daughter of FDD. Half siblings. |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | hmmm... I don't think I would do that. it's jsut not appealing. ( in my view.)
If you're going for a resale value you might not get it. Just guessing a large percentage of people wont be into that.
HOWEVER, I have seen and ridden a horse that was out of two half siblings and he was athletic, built, super easy to be around.
I think he was double Zan par bar? or something along those lines?
It's a gamble thats for sure. |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 898
Location: Mountains of VA | If I liked the conformation and temperament of each, I would do it in a heart beat. |
|
| |
|
Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | Thank you all for your opinions. This whole venture is still a huge maybe at this point lol. Just looking at options and learning!
The stallion is owned by family that have offered to send semen. He's proven as a performer and producer on the track, and has some nice get in the barrel arena as well.
The mare is out of a proven performer and producer on the track, and was raced herself. And has produced some nice foals as well.
|
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Ok here is a question to ask yourself. Would you be comfortable conceiving, carrying, and raising a child with your half brother? I think it's a bit to close. When this happens with humans there are often developmental issues. I think line breeding is more like breeding cousins not brothers and sisters. |
|
| |
|
Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | FLITASTIC - 2015-11-01 5:05 PM Ok here is a question to ask yourself. Would you be comfortable conceiving, carrying, and raising a child with your half brother? I think it's a bit to close. When this happens with humans there are often developmental issues. I think line breeding is more like breeding cousins not brothers and sisters.
I wouldn't be comfortable having a child with my third cousin!! Lol. I totally get what you're saying and that's something I thought about, developmental issues. I didn't know if it was considered "normal", or not. Which is why I asked :)
If we decide to try and raise a couple foals I could certainly find a differently bred mare. I just fell in love with this ol gal, and that stallion is available to me. Of course I could always breed her to another stud as well.
Of course she may end up being out of my budget lol.
So many variables!! Thank you all for your insight! |
|
| |
|
 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | They are only half siblings if out of the same mare |
|
| |
|
 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | TwistedK - 2015-11-01 5:53 PM
They are only half siblings if out of the same mare
Not true. At least for these purposes. Marketing yes, but you don't suddenly get rid of half the sires DNA just because he fits on the top half of the pedigree. NOT calling them half siblings I this instance is just silly as that can still impact them.
To the OP, you take a big risk with any linebreeding but NO breed was developed without it. You wouldn't have German Shepherds and Persian cats and Clydesdale horses unless someone had performed line breeding. To select certain characteristics you must breed type to type and that often means closely related animals. So ask yourself, what traits are you trying to concentrate? What will you do with the resulting offspring if they don't have those traits? |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1229
Location: Royal J Performance Horses, AZ | TwistedK - 2015-11-01 4:53 PM
They are only half siblings if out of the same mare
I despise when people say that.
If your dad married, had kids with one woman. Then it fell a part or etc. and he had another child with a different woman. Those two children are half siblings....
If people want to be picky about it in the horse industry then you could say Paternal sibling for maternal sibling.
BUT they are still in fact half siblings. |
|
| |
|
 Goat Giver
Posts: 23166
| Fancie_That_Chrome_ - 2015-11-01 6:06 PM TwistedK - 2015-11-01 4:53 PM They are only half siblings if out of the same mare I despise when people say that. If your dad married, had kids with one woman. Then it fell a part or etc. and he had another child with a different woman. Those two children are half siblings.... If people want to be picky about it in the horse industry then you could say Paternal sibling for maternal sibling. BUT they are still in fact half siblings.
Me too. They get 50% of their genes from each parent thus they are hard sibs.
I would breed Bender to his paternal (that is my sarcastic font) half sibling if I had not let her get so old. They are phenotypically quite different and I think it would have been a great cross. |
|
| |
|
  Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | Breeding that close is inbreeding not line breeding. The rule on inbreeding is to breed father to a daughter but never a mother to a son. So when breeding close enough that you are inbreeding you want to double breed the sires side. But still you want to be very careful. Often a inbred animal will be small but then produces super when outcrossed. |
|
| |
|
 Georgia Peach
Posts: 8338
Location: Georgia | TwistedK - 2015-11-01 6:53 PM They are only half siblings if out of the same mare
This is the craziest thing I've ever heard. Do people really think this?
To the OP, I would not do it. Not appealing at all to me personally and I would be worried about genetic issues. I know people do it, but I never understood why. Too many other great bloodlines out there. |
|
| |
|
 Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | crossspur - 2015-11-01 5:53 PM Breeding that close is inbreeding not line breeding. The rule on inbreeding is to breed father to a daughter but never a mother to a son. So when breeding close enough that you are inbreeding you want to double breed the sires side. But still you want to be very careful. Often a inbred animal will be small but then produces super when outcrossed.
I was wondering why that is a rule? How is it genetically different than the other way around? |
|
| |
|
 Butter my Biscuits
Posts: 2948
Location: MI | You can breed father to daughter, or mother to son. Never breed full brother to full sister. You are not bringing in any outside genetics and am asking for trouble. Doesnt matter if its inbreeding or linebreeding. You MUST be ready to cull anything that has genetic weaknesses. That doesnt mean just dumping at a sale, where some screwball could buy and eventually breed. |
|
| |
|
Location: Wherever the Army sends my husband | I don't like it personally but there has been success with it. If I remember correctly that's how Wimpy is bred. |
|
| |
|
 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| No clue on OP's question, I know as a buyer I wouldn't buy the foal because I'm not a fan of doubling the breeding like that, I would rather see something new added in there to enhance the mares offspring. I saw a mare once who was bred to her son on accident and the foal was born with terrible conformation and had some other problems |
|
| |
|
 Ms. Marine
Posts: 4641
Location: Texas | I think that's way too close. No way I would breed the two of them. |
|
| |
|
 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | Check at Cowans, they are breeding Sun Frost sons to Sun Frost daughters a lot. Granted some lines linebreed better than others. |
|
| |
Folks on-line