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Common Sense and then some
    
Location: So. California | You spend a ton of money, campaigning and proving your stallion. Another bucketful in advertising and promotion. I would assume that you have a criteria for approving mares
Pedigree, performance record, progeny performance, conformation
Are you considering requiring 5 panel results? If not, would you consider giving a discount to a mare that has been 5 panel tested through AQHA?
Edited by Anniemae 2015-11-27 12:43 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | Anniemae - 2015-11-27 12:34 PM You spend a ton of money, campaigning and proving your stallion. Another bucketful in advertising and promotion. I would assume that you have a criteria for approving mares
Pedigree, performance record, progeny performance, confirmation
Are you considering requiring 5 panel results? If not, would you consider giving a discount to a mare that has been 5 panel tested through AQHA?
This is a really interesting question. I have a mare that's been 5 panel tested. Following for info. Great post. |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | That's a great idea. I think I will change my contract to give a $100 discount for 5 panel tested mares. I have tested all my mares even though nobody is requiring it at this time. |
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Expert
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Location: The best kept secret in TX | OregonBR - 2015-11-27 2:34 PM That's a great idea. I think I will change my contract to give a $100 discount for 5 panel tested mares. I have tested all my mares even though nobody is requiring it at this time.
I wonder why no one requires it? It honestly has never crossed my mind until this post. I always thought it was weird the previous owner 5 panel tested my girl but she was a broodie for him a few years while he was hurt/sick so I guess it would make sense that he tested her. Hmmm... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| There are so many great stallions out there, if a stallion owner requires me to 5 panel tested, unless the stallion was in the same category as Dash Ta Fame, I would move onto a different stallion.
I believe if it was a requirement by the stallion owner, it will cost them clients |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | cheryl makofka - 2015-11-27 2:50 PM
There are so many great stallions out there, if a stallion owner requires me to 5 panel tested, unless the stallion was in the same category as Dash Ta Fame, I would move onto a different stallion.
I believe if it was a requirement by the stallion owner, it will cost them clients
It would cost the stallion owner clients if he had a couple of get that carried a genetic disease... Rumors spread fast!
Most people give the stallion all the credit for well performing get. They also get all the blame for a few poor performing ones as well. 
It just makes sense to me since the mare is 50% of the equation... |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Anniemae - 2015-11-27 7:43 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-11-27 2:50 PM
There are so many great stallions out there, if a stallion owner requires me to 5 panel tested, unless the stallion was in the same category as Dash Ta Fame, I would move onto a different stallion.
I believe if it was a requirement by the stallion owner, it will cost them clients
It would cost the stallion owner clients if he had a couple of get that carried a genetic disease... Rumors spread fast!
Most people give the stallion all the credit for well performing get. They also get all the blame for a few poor performing ones as well.
It just makes sense to me since the mare is 50% of the equation...
Since the stallions are already tested, if they are negative across the board, then the stallion owner has the proof it wasn't their stud and can sue for slander if rumours or bad publicity occur |
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Expert
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Location: North of where I want to be | I would take it one step further in that so many young studs are hitting the breeding shed before they even hit the show pen. I know of one locally that is a gorgeous specimen that came back as a carrier of GBED. He also has several full sibiling mares in the area a few are bredding age. I think it is a great preemptive mechanism for stopping the propegation of the issues. |
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 Neat Freak
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Location: Wonderful Wyoming | cheryl makofka - 2015-11-27 3:50 PM There are so many great stallions out there, if a stallion owner requires me to 5 panel tested, unless the stallion was in the same category as Dash Ta Fame, I would move onto a different stallion. I believe if it was a requirement by the stallion owner, it will cost them clients
Because a stallion owner wants to uphold the breed standard by standing a 5 panel neg stallion and asks mare owners to prove their mares are also 5 panel neg you think they would move on? I only have mares these days and I would actually like to see more stallion owners insist on only breeding 5 panel mares. I think if it scares off mare owners, their mares wouldn't be worth messing with.JMO |
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 Queen Boobie 2
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| I like the idea of giving a discount for mares that test clean. That way you aren't turning mares away, but there is an incentive for owners to test. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| wyoming barrel racer - 2015-11-28 4:20 PM
cheryl makofka - 2015-11-27 3:50 PM There are so many great stallions out there, if a stallion owner requires me to 5 panel tested, unless the stallion was in the same category as Dash Ta Fame, I would move onto a different stallion. I believe if it was a requirement by the stallion owner, it will cost them clients
Because a stallion owner wants to uphold the breed standard by standing a 5 panel neg stallion and asks mare owners to prove their mares are also 5 panel neg you think they would move on? I only have mares these days and I would actually like to see more stallion owners insist on only breeding 5 panel mares. I think if it scares off mare owners, their mares wouldn't be worth messing with.JMO
Stallion owners were forced to do a 5 panel.
They have to have a 5 panel to be able to register the foals.
Mares they haven't required it yet, and may not as the law of numbers, a stallion produces more foals per year then a mare this is why the 5 panel is required.
Also there are many well known, high money earners that are not 5 panel negative |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | If AQHA follows the same line of thinking they did with HYPP, 5 panel testing for mares will be required in a few years.
If I'm spending my money, whether it be $1,000, $1500, $2500, on a stud fee, there is no reason why I can't spend $100 on 5 panel testing to ensure there is no recessive gene hiding there somewhere, or a dominant gene that I'm not interested in passing along. Well known ranches are testing their entire herds.
Yes, there are many positive horses running barrels, roping, trail riding, jumping, etc. Many of those require special feeding programs, daily exercise, etc. to stay at the top of their game. Not a problem if that is what you CHOOSE to deal with.
Also, more and more buyers are getting educated and requiring both sire and dam be 5 panel tested or at very least the horse being sold. I personally won't buy a horse without a 5 panel test, nor will I bred a horse without both mare and stallion being tested. Again, that is my CHOICE.
Science is advancing, more genetic tests are available, more are in the process of being developed or in the final stages of research. 
I see it as another tool to be used when making an informed decision on breeding. Offering discounts for 5 panel tested mares can only be a benefit to both the mare owner and stallion owner. One of those win win situations. 
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Neat Freak
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Location: Wonderful Wyoming | cheryl makofka - 2015-11-28 7:54 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2015-11-28 4:20 PM cheryl makofka - 2015-11-27 3:50 PM There are so many great stallions out there, if a stallion owner requires me to 5 panel tested, unless the stallion was in the same category as Dash Ta Fame, I would move onto a different stallion. I believe if it was a requirement by the stallion owner, it will cost them clients Because a stallion owner wants to uphold the breed standard by standing a 5 panel neg stallion and asks mare owners to prove their mares are also 5 panel neg you think they would move on? I only have mares these days and I would actually like to see more stallion owners insist on only breeding 5 panel mares. I think if it scares off mare owners, their mares wouldn't be worth messing with.JMO Stallion owners were forced to do a 5 panel. They have to have a 5 panel to be able to register the foals. Mares they haven't required it yet, and may not as the law of numbers, a stallion produces more foals per year then a mare this is why the 5 panel is required. Also there are many well known, high money earners that are not 5 panel negative
I understand the rules. I personally think mares should be required by AQHA as well. The proven sires/performers that do not have a N/N 5 panel should be gelded in my opinion. I know A Smooth Guy is doing great as a sire, but geld him and I guarantee one of the other studs Myers stand, would take his place as a sire. They have a knack for knowing what crosses best, getting them in the right hands as well as their offspring. Geld him and in 5 yrs no one would remember his name. |
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 Expert
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| I haven't seen anyone requiring it. Something to think about is that most of the diseases on the 5 panel are non symptomatic in heterozygous form, excluding hypp which varies but I believe there's additional testing requirements on hypp possible lines. So if the stud is clean even if the mare passes it on the foal would be healthy and as long as that foal was either tested or bred to clear horses down the line all future foals would be healthy. Unless people are breeding untested mares to positive stallions which is a whole other issue. |
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Champ
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Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | wishes4kissez - 2015-11-30 4:46 AM
I haven't seen anyone requiring it. Something to think about is that most of the diseases on the 5 panel are non symptomatic in heterozygous form, excluding hypp which varies but I believe there's additional testing requirements on hypp possible lines. So if the stud is clean even if the mare passes it on the foal would be healthy and as long as that foal was either tested or bred to clear horses down the line all future foals would be healthy. Unless people are breeding untested mares to positive stallions which is a whole other issue.
That's not true. HYPP, PSSM1 and MH are all dominant. Horses that are heterozygous for all of these will have it and pass it. The difference is that SOME don't show symptoms (according to their owner). They ALL can have symptoms at any time.
The recessive disorders are GBED and HERDA. They require a copy from each parent to be affected. I wouldn't breed a positive horse to another positive with either of these issues as athey are fatal in homozygous form. |
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Champ
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Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | IRunOnFaith - 2015-11-27 1:34 PM
OregonBR - 2015-11-27 2:34 PM That's a great idea. I think I will change my contract to give a $100 discount for 5 panel tested mares. I have tested all my mares even though nobody is requiring it at this time.
I wonder why no one requires it? It honestly has never crossed my mind until this post. I always thought it was weird the previous owner 5 panel tested my girl but she was a broodie for him a few years while he was hurt/sick so I guess it would make sense that he tested her. Hmmm...
AQHA requires stallions to be tested at this time. They phased it in over 3 years. I did that in January of 2014. I tested all my mares a couple at a time until I had them all tested. All are N/N for all 5 disorders. If AQHA starts requiring the mares to be tested, they will probably phase it in the same way they did the DNA testing over several years time. I hope they do. I'm covered. Meanwhile, I provide copies of the stallion and the mare's test with the purchase of any of my foals.
Edited by OregonBR 2015-11-30 11:30 AM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | I don't want to breed to a stallion thats not 5 panel negative.. it would be hypocritical for me to breed my own mare if she had a positive come up on the 5 panel test. It's in my plans to get it done, but I have not done it yet.
For a stallion who is 5 panel negative, I don't see it necessary to REQUIRE mares be 5 panel tested, because at worst, you will get a carrier of a genetic disease. But, for a stallion who is a carrier of something, I think it's irresponsible to not require mares to get 5 panel tested...If you know your horse carries a gene for a disease and then breed him to unknown mares, you are creating that possibility for a carrier of the same condition to be bred to him and create a symptomatic foal.
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Illinois | Since I work in cattle genetics, and have not bred a horse for many years... Does AQHA label pedigrees? i.e. when you do a pedigree search are animals labeled with their tested defect status? Many cattle breeds do this and it is very nice as they can do database searches for potential carriers, pick selected bulls/cows to test to help clear many cattle. So say one bull has 14,000 offspring we would just do him instead of 14,000 unnecessary tests. Often we will do these high profile animals, working with the association, before any tests are released so people who don't have to test, don't have to waste money. We also retain a semen sample from the top 50 bulls on one registry each year for genetic testing in case something new comes up. I would think at some point soon, most animals would be free by a parentally verified pedigree, or does AQHA not recognize that and require you do test for everything no matter what? |
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Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | cruisin3 - 2015-11-30 12:04 PM Since I work in cattle genetics, and have not bred a horse for many years... Does AQHA label pedigrees? i.e. when you do a pedigree search are animals labeled with their tested defect status? Many cattle breeds do this and it is very nice as they can do database searches for potential carriers, pick selected bulls/cows to test to help clear many cattle. So say one bull has 14,000 offspring we would just do him instead of 14,000 unnecessary tests. Often we will do these high profile animals, working with the association, before any tests are released so people who don't have to test, don't have to waste money. We also retain a semen sample from the top 50 bulls on one registry each year for genetic testing in case something new comes up. I would think at some point soon, most animals would be free by a parentally verified pedigree, or does AQHA not recognize that and require you do test for everything no matter what?
They do HYPP or at least say the horse contains the bloodlines of a horse known to carry HYPP. I wish they would all the others. |
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | casualdust07 - 2015-11-30 9:47 AM I don't want to breed to a stallion thats not 5 panel negative.. it would be hypocritical for me to breed my own mare if she had a positive come up on the 5 panel test. It's in my plans to get it done, but I have not done it yet. For a stallion who is 5 panel negative, I don't see it necessary to REQUIRE mares be 5 panel tested, because at worst, you will get a carrier of a genetic disease. But, for a stallion who is a carrier of something, I think it's irresponsible to not require mares to get 5 panel tested...If you know your horse carries a gene for a disease and then breed him to unknown mares, you are creating that possibility for a carrier of the same condition to be bred to him and create a symptomatic foal.
What if your mare is HYPP N/HYPP would you breed her?
What if your mare is MH N/MH - would you breed her?
What is your mare is PSSM1 N/PSSM1 - would you breed her?
These are the dominant genes. You only need ONE copy to have an afflicated horse (they are not considered carriers, they are consider afflicted). How do you know what your mare's genetic makeup is if you haven't tested?
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