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Expert
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| at 24-26 mos (2yo) to foal at 33-35 mos (3yo) due to being permanently broodmare sound only
ETA: I am just mulling it around. Not planning anything. She is for sure not going to be able to handle any type of performance. We will be lucky if she can be rode at all. This girl has tried to cut off each leg at least once in the last year in three different living arrangements/ fence settings. Still haven't found what she's doing it on lol.
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2015-12-08 3:35 PM
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | No
ETA: I guess it depends on the size. But I personally wouldn't breed a 2 year old, and probably not a 3 year old.
Edited by hoofs_in_motion 2015-12-08 3:08 PM
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 Expert
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Location: Gainesville, TX | It will effect the foal which will be undersized and likely result in a difficult birth because mare is too small. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| "Thus, assuming a normal growth rate, a filly bred at 22-24 months will probably have 98% or more of her growth already completed by the time she encounters the higher demands of late pregnancy, making marked stunting unlikely. (There is some anecdotal evidence that the type of filly that is likely to show early sexual maturity tends to be of the smaller, early-developing type physically as well, which may account for the persistent belief that an early pregnancy will stunt a filly.)"
-Bloodhorse.com speaking of Smarty Jones who became "grandget" at just 3 years old.
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| " In a study of 137 yearling mares bred, no increased dangers to the mare were identified (Mitchell, Allen. Observation on reproductive performance in the yearling mare. J. Repo. Fertil. Suppl. 1975;23:531). "
-Robert N. Oglesby, DVM. Equine Vet and breeder out of NC, USA. |
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 Swiffer PIcker Upper
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Location: Four Corners Colorado | If she is going to no doubt be unsound I'd go ahead and breed her just make sure she get the best nutrition possible. |
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Swiffer PIcker Upper
Posts: 4015
Location: Four Corners Colorado | equussynergy - 2015-12-08 2:31 PM If she is going to no doubt be unsound I'd go ahead and breed her just make sure she get the best nutrition possible.
And I mean the best nutrition now and while she is in foal. |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | RoaniePonie11 - 2015-12-08 3:30 PM
" In a study of 137 yearling mares bred, no increased dangers to the mare were identified (Mitchell, Allen. Observation on reproductive performance in the yearling mare. J. Repo. Fertil. Suppl. 1975;23:531). "
-Robert N. Oglesby, DVM. Equine Vet and breeder out of NC, USA.
And the size of the foal? Can you find anything newer than 1975? |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I just did a basic search. I haven't dug deep. I might look around at work tonight (equine vet specializing in repro) and see if I can find some good recent stuff. |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | http://www.thehorse.com/articles/28515/appropriate-breeding-age
From 2012, PHD in the field. Yes it stunts their growth. Yes they have more trouble. Yes the foal is smaller. A few benefits in terms of mares behavior. |
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Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas |
good information. thank you for sharing |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| I had read that article and it talks about breeding yearlings, foaling as 2yos and breeding 3yos, foaling as 4yos. I must have missed where it talked about breeding 2yos, foaling as 3yos.
ETA: here is what I got from the article about foaling as 3yo:
"Similarly, maternal behavior is variable and often a bit delayed in some 2- and 3-year-old first-time dams."
"Under natural conditions, fillies that first foal as 2-year-olds usually do not grow to be as big as mares that do not foal until 3 years of age, and their first foals tend to be smaller adults as well."
" Dr. McDonnell's findings that under natural conditions fillies that foal for the first time as 2-year-olds (as well as their offspring) usually do not grow as big as mares that do not foal for the first time until 3 years of age supports that rationale."
As far as training, this was also pulled from the article:
"For a young mare, having a foal before training can have distinct benefits. From having known and worked regularly with dozens of mares that foaled young, it is my impression that most seem to mature by leaps and bounds with foaling and caring for a foal. They tend to mellow with regard to human handling and training, seem less fearful and distracted, and are better able to focus on human direction. So breeding could be an ideal interlude between basic training and serious dressage training."
Edited by RoaniePonie11 2015-12-08 4:12 PM
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Article also specifically recommends waiting to breed, not foal, between 3 to 10. I would think yearlings are the most problematic to breed but you would still have some issues with foaling at 3, just not as many. And article also still intimates that foal size is affected. Have you read the Ranger piece on skeletal maturity in horses. It's more for riding but something to consider for this too. There's still a whole lot of joint fusing and growing going on in three year olds. It's a really high stress growth time and a time when they are often experiencing a lot of 'growing pains'. I'd hate to put the additional stress of a foal on an animal struggling with that. Just because a 15 year old girl can have a baby doesn't mean she should. It's comparable. I'd say breeding a yearling is more like a 13-14 year old. |
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I just read the headlines
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| My daughter bought a barely 5 year old mare that was ready to season as a barrel horse. A couple months later I found her yearling colt for sale. The girl who she bought the mare from didn't know she had ever been bred. She had bought as a 4 yr old. She had bought her as a project horse. I don't believe it stunted her growth and the colt didn't look stunted or low quality.
I would be careful about feeding her and the stallion you choose, if you decide to breed her. I know with show heifers a lot of them have huge calves partly due to over feeding to keep them looking good for the show ring and also, not paying attention to birth weights on the bull.
We never had a problem because we didn't over feed in the last trimeste and we always bred to a bull with lower birth weights. Often those calves were show quality.
But of course, it may be different with horses. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
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Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | No way would I breed a 2 year old.. I would wait for her to be coming a 4 year old. |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Why the hurry, I know you said shes not sound, but let her grow up some. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| GLP - 2015-12-08 4:23 PM
My daughter bought a barely 5 year old mare that was ready to season as a barrel horse. A couple months later I found her yearling colt for sale. The girl who she bought the mare from didn't know she had ever been bred. She had bought as a 4 yr old. She had bought her as a project horse. I don't believe it stunted her growth and the colt didn't look stunted or low quality.
I would be careful about feeding her and the stallion you choose, if you decide to breed her. I know with show heifers a lot of them have huge calves partly due to over feeding to keep them looking good for the show ring and also, not paying attention to birth weights on the bull.
We never had a problem because we didn't over feed in the last trimeste and we always bred to a bull with lower birth weights. Often those calves were show quality.
But of course, it may be different with horses.
I did see a discussion where show cows were brought up. Where people want calves as early as possible and its kind of the same situation. |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | We have a mare that was bred as a 2 year old and have seen the foal that is now 3. Gorgeous and exceptional. I want ups not hesitate to breed a 2 year old if they were mature enough |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1131
| I personally would not, but I foaled out a 3yo mare this year and she had a big beautiful filly with no complications at all. It didn't mellow her out any, though. She was a big, hot tempered DTF filly, and she was just as hot and hard to handle after she foaled. That baby was a cutie though, by a FG son. |
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 Saint Stacey
| Just because they physically CAN be bred at 2 doesn't mean they SHOULD.
Just like a 13 year old girl CAN have a child doesn't mean she should either.
I would wait until 3. At 2 they are still very immature and still growing. |
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