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Miracle in the Making
Posts: 4013
| i only know what i read but its sounds worst than stupid
we can put rancher back in jail but we can/t dp o illgeals
al sharkon can owe millions in back taxes yet willie nelson goes to jail
we are so screwed up
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 Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | SO very sad and so very true. To add to that the government goes to great links to not lable someone who takes numerous innocent lives as terrioist becasue they don't want to offend. Now here is a father and son, AMerican ranchers, peacefully turning themselves in to serve 4 years in prison as terrioist. Sad day indeed. | |
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 Stinky Cat Owner
Posts: 4097
Location: Oregon | I need to read and learn more about this (and I'm in Oregon!) because holiday must have taken over my brain as I hadn't really heard all about it. The only thing I heard this morning was that two guys were going to jail because they had started a fire to cover up their poaching and ended up burning quite a bit of forest. ? Ok. | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
   
| How is this not Double Jeopardy?? From what I understand, both ranchers have already served court ordered jail time. Now the Feds, years later, decide that the punishment was not great enough so are ordering them to now serve an extended sentence.
Now they want to call the protesters terrorist. tread very carefully here folks. If they succeed in making that label stick, ANY disagreement with Big Brother will earn you the same label and the same type of punishments. Yet we must close Gitmo......unless we send our own citizens there methinks.
I just listened to a Lib call them terrorists and demand that the National Guard be called out to deal with them because they ...are armed and threaten to commit violence... His viewpoint, not mine. What I heard them say in an interview is that they would resort to protecting themselves in they needed to.
What really scares me is that this will escalate to violence of government controlled troops against citizens....and cause Obama to declare Martial Law, which is why they are fanning the flames. Once Martial Law is declared, we loose many rights and maybe NOT get to have elections later this year. This sound familiar to anyone? | |
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Location: South Dakota | Katie's - 2016-01-04 10:21 AM
I need to read and learn more about this (and I'm in Oregon!) because holiday must have taken over my brain as I hadn't really heard all about it. Â The only thing I heard this morning was that two guys were going to jail because they had started a fire to cover up their poaching and ended up burning quite a bit of forest. ? Â Ok.
From what I understand, they had permission to burn obnoxious weeds, and forage...no poaching involved whatsoever. The government is backstabbing these good folks...and to call them terrorists, is beyond low...If this kind of tyranny can be inflicted on these ranchers, it could happen to anyone of us, who doesn't fall in line with the big Obama agenda....very scary indeed. | |
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Stinky Cat Owner
Posts: 4097
Location: Oregon | ridejg - 2016-01-04 9:03 AM Katie's - 2016-01-04 10:21 AM I need to read and learn more about this (and I'm in Oregon!) because holiday must have taken over my brain as I hadn't really heard all about it. The only thing I heard this morning was that two guys were going to jail because they had started a fire to cover up their poaching and ended up burning quite a bit of forest. ? Ok. From what I understand, they had permission to burn obnoxious weeds, and forage...no poaching involved whatsoever. The government is backstabbing these good folks...and to call them terrorists, is beyond low...If this kind of tyranny can be inflicted on these ranchers, it could happen to anyone of us, who doesn't fall in line with the big Obama agenda....very scary indeed.
Ahhhh.... Thank you. I still need to read up on this but that seems a little more clearer than what I heard. And, like the post above, how is this not double jeopardy? Crazy. | |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| Katie's - 2016-01-04 11:24 AM ridejg - 2016-01-04 9:03 AM Katie's - 2016-01-04 10:21 AM I need to read and learn more about this (and I'm in Oregon!) because holiday must have taken over my brain as I hadn't really heard all about it. Â The only thing I heard this morning was that two guys were going to jail because they had started a fire to cover up their poaching and ended up burning quite a bit of forest. ? Â Ok. From what I understand, they had permission to burn obnoxious weeds, and forage...no poaching involved whatsoever. The government is backstabbing these good folks...and to call them terrorists, is beyond low...If this kind of tyranny can be inflicted on these ranchers, it could happen to anyone of us, who doesn't fall in line with the big Obama agenda....very scary indeed.
Edited by rodeomom3 2016-01-05 6:55 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1182
Location: Do I hear Banjos? | One other disturbing aspect is that this all seems to be part of an attempt by the feds to acquire the land. In fact...one clause of the new harsher sentencing is that the BLM now has "first right of refusal" to purchase the property if the owners ever sell. When you consider the amount in fines that have been levied against the rancher...it's pretty likely they would have to sell in order to pay those fines...and guess who will get to buy the land? Yep...the BLM.
However this all started...whatever bad deeds or shady acts may or may not have been perpetrated by either side...It really bothers me that the feds have just about guaranteed that they will get ownership of that land. Lends credence to the claims by the family that the feds have had it out for them all along and wanted their land to add to the reserve. There are similar sad/shady stories here in Arkansas as to how the landowners were treated/cheated/intimidated and forced out when they decided to establish the Buffalo River National Park. | |
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I'm still trying to figure out how what they did was terrorism. Arson, ok, from what I read the fire went onto federal property. There was no malicious intent, but it happened and they served time. But TERRORISM? No. Just no. | |
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  Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Hammonds to serve 5 years in prison
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Steve Hammond will serve more time in federal prison for burning about 140 acres of BLM land. Photo courtesy Oregon Farm Bureau
Steve Hammond will serve more time in federal prison for burning about 140 acres of BLM land. Photo courtesy Oregon Farm Bureau
SALEM, OREGON, October 7, 2015 â
Statement by Oregon Farm Bureau President Barry Bushue on sentencing of Steve and Dwight Hammond:
âToday two Oregon ranchers were sentenced to five years in federal prison under terrorism statutes for setting preventative fires on their own land. We are gravely disappointed at this outcome.
âElderly Harney County rancher Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven, a former OFB Board member and Harney County Farm Bureau president, have already served time in federal prison for their mistakes and paid their debt to society for the less-than-140 acres of BLM land that was accidentally impacted by the fires.
âThis is an example of gross government overreach, and the public should be outraged.
âTodayâs verdict is also hypocritical given BLMâs own harm to public and private grazing lands, which goes without consequence. It is unjust. OFB worked on this case quietly behind the scenes with BLM through the spring and summer. That diligent diplomatic effort was fruitless.
âThis prosecution will have a chilling effect across the West among ranchers, foresters, and others who rely on federal allotments and permits. It will harm the positive relationship many ranchers and organizations have worked to forge with the BLM, and undermine the cooperative spirit most ranchers have brought to the bureau in helping the health of the range.
âPlease join Farm Bureau and declare your support for Steve and Dwight Hammond. Join over 2,600 other citizens from across the country and show BLM that this extreme abuse of power will not go unnoticed and is shameful. Sign the petition at www.savethehammonds.com. This must never happen again.
âOFB will continue to work to bring public and policymaker attention to this case.â
Comment from federal attorney Billy Williams:
âWe all know the devastating effects that are caused by wildfires. Fires intentionally and illegally set on public lands, even those in a remote area, threaten property and residents and endanger firefighters called to battle the blazeâ stated Acting U.S. Attorney Billy Williams. âCongress sought to ensure that anyone who maliciously damages United Statesâ property by fire will serve at least 5 years in prison. These sentences are intended to be long enough to deter those like the Hammonds who disregard the law and place fire fighters and others in jeopardy.â
Oregon Farm Bureau President Barry Bushueâs response:
âBLM accused the Hammonds of endangering lives, but a jury found they did not. Saying they âintentionallyâ set fire to public land or threatened lives is not what the jury concluded. Federal attorney Billy Williams is wrong in his overblown statements in court yesterday. But he has helped frame the debate as we start to look at BLMâs own actions. If Williamsâ rhetoric is the standard, BLM will have a lot of explaining to do, far beyond what theyâve done in this case,â said OFB President Barry Bushue.
âOregon Farm Bureau
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Three 4 Luck - 2016-01-04 12:10 PM
 I'm still trying to figure out how what they did was terrorism.  Arson, ok, from what I read the fire went onto federal property. There was no malicious intent, but it happened and they served time.  But TERRORISM?  No.  Just no.Â
It wasn't terrorism. But that's the way it was prosecuted. | |
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Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/01/03/full-story-on-whats-going-on-in-oregon-militia-take-over-malheur-national-wildlife-refuge-in-protest-to-hammond-family-persecution/ | |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Ranchers face added jail time for BLM fire
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An eastern Oregon family with a long history in ranching is fighting to keep its cow/calf operation afloat against an onslaught of blows from the federal government. Two members of the Hammond family have been charged under the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 for starting two range fires that ended up on federal land.
One of the fires, set in 2001, was a prescribed burn on Hammondâs private property; a routine rangeimprovement practice. The other fire, set on Hammondâs private property in 2006, was a back-burn intended to protect the ranchâs winter pasture from a lightening fire on adjacent federal land. Combined, the two fires burned about 140 acres of federal land. Now, although two Hammond family members have already done time in federal prison for setting these fires, they are facing a resentencingânow scheduled for late Octoberâthat could land them back in prison.
The Hammonds hold grazing rights on Bureau of Land Management (BLM) land and own private grazing acres intermingled with BLM land in the Steens Mountains. For 45 years, the Hammonds have used their BLM grazing rights and private property to run a successful operation. But now, their operation is being threatened not only by criminal and civil charges brought by the federal government, but with the loss of their grazing permits, as well. The BLM has refused to renew their grazing permits for two years running.
Although the family has refrained from making a public splash, the story is slowly getting out. Court documents are beginning to circulate. Those documents paint a picture of a family that serves on the local school board, volunteers in community clubs and counsels, and donates time, money and meat each year to local youth organizations and senior groups. District Court Judge Michael Hogan, the federal judge who first saw their case, went on record calling the Hammonds âthe salt of their community.â
The fires
Why did Hammonds start the fires? According to court documents, the 2001 âHardie-Hammondâ fire was set under a long-standing plan between Hammonds and their BLM range conservationist to burn off invasive species on that section. They had called the BLM at noon that day to see if burning was permitted. After being told there was no burn ban in effect, the Hammonds told the BLM that they would be setting a fire on that section.
The fire later spread to approximately 139 acres of public land, land that happened to be one of Hammondâs grazing allotments. The Hammonds presented evidence that the spread onto public land was not intentional. However, back in 1999, a similar scenario had occurred (a prescribed burn on their land spread to public land), and the Hammonds had been warned that they would face serious consequences should it happen again. As an aside, according to the BLM itself, the 2001 Hardie-Hammond fire had, in fact, âimproved range conditionsâ on the public lands.
The 2006 âKrumbo Butteâ fire was started by lightening on public land adjacent to Hammondâs private land, where they grow their winter feed. Hammonds set a backfire that successfully kept the Krumbo Butte fire from burning a large portion of their private land. Their backfire burned about one acre of federal land.
Years later, BLM pressed charges for the above-mentioned fires, citing endangerment of human lives and damage to federal property. However, the district court found that no one had been endangered by the fires, and that the fires had caused minimal damage. In fact, the court found, the fire had arguably increased the value of the land for grazing.
Original jail sentence
Dwight and Steven Hammond (father and son operators of the family ranch) admitted to having started the above fires. In determining the Hammondsâ sentences, Judge Hogan had decided that applying the âmandatory minimumâ of five years cited in the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act would âshock the conscienceâŚâ He referenced the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution, which states, âExcessive bail shall not be requiredâŚnor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.â
To call for five yearsâ imprisonment, he said, âwould result in a sentence which is grossly disproportionate to the severity of the offenses hereâŚâ He said that Hammondsâ actions âcould not have been conduct intended under [the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act]âŚâ Judge Hogan used his discretion under the Eighth Amendment to sentence Dwight (now 74) to three months in prison, followed by three yearsâ âsupervised release.â Dwightâs son Steven (45), father of three, was sentenced to one year and one day in prisonâalso to be followed by three yearsâ âsupervised release.â The men served their sentences starting in 2013.
Their firearms were taken, as was Dwightâs pilotâs license.
Back to prison?
Not satisfied by Judge Hoganâs reasoning or sentencing decisions, the federal government is now coming back for more: It wants the men to serve at least five yearsâ time. The government appealed the judgeâs decision to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, and that court agreed that Judge Hoganâs ruling must be remanded back to another judge. The Hammonds appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court in hopes of overturning the Ninth Circuit decision, but their case was not taken up by the high court.
Thus, the case is now in the hands of Chief Judge of the District Court of Oregon, Judge Ann Aiken. She will decide whether to institute the five-year minimum or more. The resentencing hearing, once scheduled for July 9, has been delayed to late October 2015.
Meanwhile, on the civil side, a wholly separate civil case is being considered. The ranch is also paying $400,000 as part of a settlement agreement with BLM for the alleged costs of fighting fires for which BLM claims the Hammonds are responsible. If the Ham monds have to sell part of their ranch to make the payment, BLM managed (as part of the settlement agreement) to get first option to buy.
Meanwhile, due to BLMâs refusal to renew the familyâs grazing permits, the Hammonds have had to find alternative feed for their cattle for large parts of the year, all while working to come up with the $400,000 settlement sum. Hammonds own grazing preferences and hold an associated permit on the BLM land. Whatâs more, they own private property intermingled with the BLM land. This two-year denial of their grazing permits has preventing them from using their grazing rights and private land.
After a â45-year record of exemplary stewardshipâ on Hammondsâ part, the familyâs counsel wrote, BLMâs refusal of permits is an act of âzeal,â an effort to âmake an example ofâ the family. The Hammonds are currently appealing to get their permits reinstated.
âThe public has an interest in maintaining and stabilizing the livestock operations that are dependent upon the public lands,â said the Hammondsâ appeal. âHowever, contrary to this interest, the⌠BLM Decision destabilizes [Hammondsâ] current livestock operation which is dependent upon the public landsâŚâ Watch for updates on both the criminal and civil aspects of the Hammond familyâs story in future editions.
âReprinted with permission from the Western Livestock Journal
http://www.tsln.com/news/17302049-113/story.html
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Knowledge is Power
Posts: 4051
Location: wherever my daughter's running | Three 4 Luck - 2016-01-04 3:10 PM I'm still trying to figure out how what they did was terrorism. Arson, ok, from what I read the fire went onto federal property. There was no malicious intent, but it happened and they served time. But TERRORISM? No. Just no.
I copied this from the article I posted the link to.
(k) In 2011, 5 years after the police report was taken, the U.S. Attorney Office accused Dwight and Steven Hammond of completely different charges, they accused them of being “Terrorist” under the Federal Antiterrorism Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996. This act carries a minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum sentence of death. Dwight & Steven’s mug shots were all over the news the next week posing them as “Arsonists”. Susan Hammond (Wife & Mother) said: “I would walk down the street or go in a store, people I had known for years would take extreme measures to avoid me”. | |
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 I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | The BLM and EPA are out of control and they are never held accountable for all of their wrong deeds and just brush it off like Killary does with the "What difference does it make?" attitude but are the first to hang a citizen in a heartbeat. | |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Beck is explaining all of this on his show right now. This is nothing but government over reach. Too bad the government doesn't enforce the laws that are on the books regarding illegals.
Beck just said we are now a nation of men rather then a nation of laws...otherwise us peasants can be charged with anything while the King can do whatever he pleases.
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 Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
Posts: 5530
Location: OH | This is a LAND GRAB by our Federal Government plain and simple. Read the history on this fight, they have been trying to get this land for DECADES. | |
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I Prefer to Live in Fantasy Land
Posts: 64864
Location: In the Hills of Texas | Mighty Broke - 2016-01-04 2:41 PM This is a LAND GRAB by our Federal Government plain and simple. Read the history on this fight, they have been trying to get this land for DECADES.
I've said for years that the government wants to take over all the ranches and farms. I know a family of ranchers in Nevada that the government has been pimping them for years and is constantly trying to find things to fine them for. They butt up to BLM land and the government has tried to purchase their land. | |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | http://www.dailywire.com/news/2303/here-are-five-reasons-you-should... | |
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Guys Just Wanna Have Fun
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Location: OH | | |
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Folks on-line