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Elite Veteran
Posts: 614
 
Location: Usually on my horse | I didn’t post this at the end of July when this happened because I was just going to “suck it up”. But I can’t hold it in anymore because I am still raging mad about it, especially when I see these cheats continue to sell horses on BHW on a regular basis.
I purchased a horse named Thunderdog on this site from a person in who sells a lot of horses on here. At the time, I thought that this person was trustworthy, based on the amount of horses I saw from the ads with this person’s name and phone number on them and they sold quite quickly.
Thunderdog was advertised as sound and no vices. It was also advertised as having no quirks and really easy to run, fast, would go all day, former ranch horse, blah, blah, blah. This person did have a video of Thunderdog slowly going through a pattern. This person claimed in the ad, the reason Thunderdog was going slow was because, “the arena was wet and they didn’t want the horse to slip”.( I know better than that now) In the video Thunderdog came off the third barrel rather oddly, (like he wasn’t going to finish the barrel) and the video faded off and went to another video of him slowly going through a pattern. I questioned this person about that. This person stated to me, it was “because they were holding him back”. (I now am pretty sure that he froze up and would not finish the pattern, because that is what he does, so they cut the video) Thunderdog was advertised as a 2D horse in the NBHA. I had several conversations with this liar and this person assured me that everything that was stated in the ad was true and accurate. I believed this person. This person went so far as to tell me that if he didn’t work out I could get a different horse from them, because I questioned this person as to “what if he isn’t what you say he is”. That was actually the selling point. Again I believed this person.
Well SHAME ON ME!!!! The ad and this person were a total fraud!
I purchased this horse in good faith, believing what this person told me and what the ad indicated. This person flat out lied to me about this horse, in our conversations and in the ad that was written. It makes me angry and sick to see people like them able to lie and cheat others out of their money and just not think twice about it. No conscience and not an ounce of regret. How do people like this sleep at night? They (this person and another person) just keep selling horses on this site. Although I do not see this person riding the horses anymore, this person’s phone number is still listed as the contact.
Obviously, some of the horses they sell must be what they advertised them to be or they could not possibly keep selling horses. But if they were any kind of decent business people or had any morals at all, they would make situation right. Lying and cheating even one person out of their hard earned money is one too many.
I am so angry about this. And this poor horse was 150 lbs underweight upon arrival, shoes on front feet 2 sizes to small, very sad and totally broken spirit. I contacted this person within 4 days of getting this horse and this person would not reply to my texts or my voice mails or return my calls. At that point, in my mind, this person more or less admitted they were a liar and dishonest about this horse, without even saying it.
I contacted a lawyer and he talked to this person. This person admits no wrong doing and because they had a video of Thunderdog going through a barrel pattern in an arena, stating the video proves he is a barrel horse. This person also told the lawyer that I must have caused the horse to do this, going so far as to tell him I probably don’t know how to ride. This person also told him that they never told me “if Thunderdog didn’t work out they would trade me for another horse”.
I am a 15 year veteran of barrel with national titles to back up my riding ability.
After the fact, I did some homework on Thunderdog and found a former owner. It turns out that this former owner sold Thunderdog horse in 2012 as UNSOUND and UNABLE TO BE BARREL RACED. In fact the first question asked by the former owner was, “What did you purchase this horse as ?”. They described to me what happened when they tried to barrel race Thunderdog. (it was the same thing that he did to me, running to the fence, freezing up and acting like he was going to blow up, and never completed a pattern)
Former owner bought Thunderdog from another dishonest horse trader in PA not knowing he had stifle, back and hock problem (as he was also sold to them as sound) and for 5 months and many $$$ vet bills later, tried to get him sound. This trader eventually did take buy (trade) him back with full disclosure from the owners of the problems that Thunderdog had, but this former owner told me it did not end well. Obviously this lying horse trader in PA failed to disclose to the next buyer the problems that Thunderdog had.
Thunderdog has been passed around and sold and re-sold and getting dumbed on whoever was unsuspecting and got sucked into these liars’s web. I found out as of last April, he was in the possession of the same horse trader in PA and now it is obvious how he got in possession of the person I bought him from. Apparently these lying horse traders must all stick together.
Lying, cheating people that use animals for profit, while stealing from others, in my opinion, have a special place in hell. I hope karma turns around and bites them hard!!!
In the mean time I am out of my money, have a crippled horse with a broken spirit who is NOT a barrel horse and these rotten cheaters continue on doing what they do. Hopefully sooner than later, this will all catch up with them and justice will be served!
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
  
Location: Kansas | I'm so sorry that happened to you. I had a gal message me just about a week ago wanting to trade her "2D" gelding for my started colt....she told me the gelding was sound. I did a little research and found out he had stifle and hock issues. People are disgusting.
Did you not do a prepurchase exam?
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| This is why I will only buy a horse I have ridden, had a vet check on ( depends on price and age of horse for how detailed vet check i do) and I pull blood myself. I also have seller sign a contract that if blood work comes back as showing any medications they had not disclosed then no sale. Any seller who refuses this knowingly is trying to cover up something. I don't care if it's 500 hour drive or flight to see the horse. There are just so many dishonest people these days. Sorry you had to go through that. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | So sorry that this happen to you, there is so many dishonest people out there....I have gotton where I dont trust hardley anyone.. |
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| Sorry this happened to you... I assume you bought site unseen? I got burned doing that once too. Mine was a prospect but who was advertised as ready to ride when he didnt even tie... Did you get a pre-puchase/vet check done? |
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 Expert
Posts: 4625
Location: Desert Land | I'm sorry this happened to you and hopefully these sellers will get what they have coming to them.
I assume you didn't have a vet check done and/or a good contract in place? I have bought/sold lots of sight unseen horses. I make sure the contract is very detailed and I prefer to do my correspondence when selling via e-mail so I have proof of everything thre buyer asked and how I answered. It just keeps the honest people honest.
Also, sounds like you did a lot of detective work AFTER the issues arose. I don't understand why people don't do that BEFORE purchasing? |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| I don't understand how some people live with themselves. I vet check everything and do extensive research. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 326
| I bet I know these two. Put them on: RIPOFFREPORT.COM. That's what I did. These two are the most disgusting humans you will ever meet. I had to put the horse down I got from them, he was so crippled. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1898
| TheOldGrayMare - 2016-01-05 11:30 AM
I'm sorry this happened to you and hopefully these sellers will get what they have coming to them.
I assume you didn't have a vet check done and/or a good contract in place? I have bought/sold lots of sight unseen horses. I make sure the contract is very detailed and I prefer to do my correspondence when selling via e-mail so I have proof of everything thre buyer asked and how I answered. It just keeps the honest people honest.
Also, sounds like you did a lot of detective work AFTER the issues arose. I don't understand why people don't do that BEFORE purchasing?
That sucks. I am sorry for you and the horse.
Hind sight is always 20/20 but I agree with The Old Gray Mare! All of my correspondence is ALWAYS done through some for of text, either email or regular text for this very reason. As a buyer especially but also as a seller. I want to be able to see what was said and if I forgot to ask any questions as the buyer and as the seller I want to make sure I disclosed everything and answered all the questions a potential buyer has. Having everything in text is especially good when dates are involved, such as when and where a horse ran, injuries, or illness the horse suffered.
It is nothing personal against the seller/buyer, I know a lot of people prefer actual conversation but there is nothing to fall back on in instances like this. He said-She said holds no legal value. Plus I have a super bad short term memory problem and find if it is not in text I ask the same questions over and over. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| LP22654 - 2016-01-05 11:47 AM
I bet I know these two. Put them on: RIPOFFREPORT.COM. That's what I did. These two are the most disgusting humans you will ever meet. I had to put the horse down I got from them, he was so crippled.
omg |
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 Expert
Posts: 1392
Location: Central Texas | So sorry. I feel your pain and anger because I have been in your shoes. I also bought from someone on here that I thought was honest. I learned a lot of lessons on that deal. I had to dang near give that horse away. BUT I was honest and told any prospective buyers that I was scared of him and would never get on him again and it was try at your own risk. I really need to start horse shopping again since my other horse is now 23 and it's getting harder to maintain his arthritis but I don't trust anyone which makes horse shopping very very hard. |
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  Friendly horse swapper
Posts: 4122
Location: Buffalo, TX | I'm so sorry you had to go through this...It's all about the money...there are liars and cheaters in every occupation, car dealers, trailer dealers, horse sellers, scammers who will take your life savings and never shed a tear, etc...
I think most of us have learned the hard way that at the very least, you need to ask here for PMs on sellers in a certain state before purchase and then reveal the details in the PM for answers...and also make sure you get the registered name of the horse and do an AQHA check for previous owners and call them about the horse...lastly, vet check if you are spending an amount of money that you can't comfortably lose if all goes wrong...sad, but true, you almost have to assume the worst until you verify, verify, verify everything they say, or go look in person and ride the horse, or in the case of a 2D horse, ask if they will take it to a jackpot so you can watch, and if they won't, pass them up. There are a lot of horses out there for sale...I found the nicest one I've had in 10 years right in my backyard...look at it as a learning experience and you will never have to go through this again... |
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 Maine-iac
Posts: 3334
Location: Got Lobsta? | When you typed "Shame on Me". No...you are a good, honest person who believes that people are good in the world. I'm so sorry this has happen to you. Its not fair and it's heart breaking to hear stories like this. |
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 Loves to compete
Posts: 5760
Location: Oakdale, CA | TheOldGrayMare - 2016-01-05 9:30 AM I'm sorry this happened to you and hopefully these sellers will get what they have coming to them.
I assume you didn't have a vet check done and/or a good contract in place? I have bought/sold lots of sight unseen horses. I make sure the contract is very detailed and I prefer to do my correspondence when selling via e-mail so I have proof of everything thre buyer asked and how I answered. It just keeps the honest people honest.
Also, sounds like you did a lot of detective work AFTER the issues arose. I don't understand why people don't do that BEFORE purchasing?
I'm a firm believer its the buyers responsibility as much as the sellers responsiibility anymore.....
this subject has been talked about over and over and over.....................
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 614
Location: Usually on my horse | I wish I would have been smarter and done homework before as well. But I did not have time. This person pressured me and basically told me they were going to sell him that day(because someone else came and rode him after I told her I wanted him and said they wanted him too)(probably another lie), unless I had a check in the mail. This person knew exactly what they were doing. I have all the texts of our conversations on that. Hindsight...... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 512
| I also think I know who you are referring to. I beleive they have been discussed on here before. They always advertise as sound with no vices in every horse-pretty much impossible!
Sorry they burned you :( |
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 I hate cooking and cleaning
Posts: 3314
Location: Jersey Girl | Is the sellers first name Olivia? She is a PA seller that screwed me on the horse in my avatar. |
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 Voice of Reason
Location: NOT at Wal Mart | Can you PM me the name as I think I know who you're referring to. I purchased a horse from "them" a while back. Put $$ down, did research with AQHA, papers were flagged, horse was listed in a law suit, called previous owner, horse was a bucker she ran thru a sale in ND. Needless to say I refused to continue with the sale. I did manage to get my disposit back, although it took a fight. Sorry this happened to you. |
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 Hawty & Nawty
Posts: 20424
| I just buy backyard mutt horses that can't outrun the neighbor's cat. But even then I RUN LIKE HELL when sellers tell me I have to buy that day. I'm so sorry you got burned but lessons learned and maybe you can restore this one horse's heart and make him into a good trail horse for someone. |
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | I'm sorry this happened, but in the end you are responsible for doing your homework ahead of time as well as having the horse vet checked and riding them yourself. Without doing those things you are always taking a risk. Unfortunately the fact of the matter is you really can't trust anyone. |
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Folks on-line