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 Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
   
Location: Missouri | I had my colt started as a 2 y/o. After 30 days, the trainer said that he was really sore in the ribs (he thought from the cinch) and told me he had enough rides, so turn him out.
The following year (3 y/o), I sent him to a different trainer who kept him stalled 24/7 for 30 days. He was fresh every day (go figure) and she didn't really like him.
The fall of that year, I sent him to do ranch work. Again, after 30 days, he was very sore. When I picked him up, he was wobbly at a walk, couldn't hold a lead, and nearly fell over when mounted. I turned him out again and he improved within days.
I've ridden him myself since then (he's now coming 6). He seemed fine until late fall where he became very sore in the back end, losing leads, not turning, etc.
After having him vetted, they saw a tiny spot in his hock that they said shouldn't cause soreness, but they injected anyway. He has been turned out since.
This weekend, I sent him to be ridden at the sale barn. When I picked him up today, I was told that he was "loose in the back end."
Hearing that, I'm wondering about EPM. He is a tough horse (which is why I keep sending him out! lol!), cold-backed when I first start riding him after prolonged turn out. But, last year he really started maturing and acting half-way worth my time.
I'm just not sure what to think... another lameness exam obviously, but I just got off the phone with a vet who said it could be "just his gait."
If you've made it this far, I'm sorry for writing a book.
Any thoughts?
eta: Here is a video of him last summer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkRb6y1Aik4
Edited by just4fun 2016-11-15 2:13 PM
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | could it be PSSM? |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM?
Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
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Common Sense and then some
Location: So. California | just4fun - 2016-01-20 3:35 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM? Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
They tend to get better with a change in feeding (low sugar/starch) and regular exercise. Send his hair off to be tested, is inexpensive. If he is negative for PSSM1, then I would run a blood panel and also test for EPM... |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Anniemae - 2016-01-20 5:38 PM just4fun - 2016-01-20 3:35 PM wyoming barrel racer - 2016-01-20 5:28 PM could it be PSSM? Maybe...but I thought they got better with work/exercise? He seems to be the opposite...
I added a video above. You can see (especially at the end) that he isn't driving behind.
What are we looking for with blood panel?
I will go ahead and test for PSSM. I thought about it before, but just put it off...
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | The way hes moving he looks like hes really tired and having a hard time keeping up, I would test him for EPM.. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
| There are some tests you can do yourself. Cross front feet, if he stays that way, you have a problem. Raise his tail, there should be a lot of resistance. Lift his tail over his back and push it hard toward is front end hard. He should hump up like a scared cat. If you think the horse might have EPM go ahead and give it medicine. It won't hurt the horse. Injecting a horse will make a horse with EPM more pronounced. |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| One other possibility could be sticky stifles. It feels like they fall out from under them self.
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | His stifles look to be loose.. but the other issues would concern me.. did vet check his pelvis? |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | I say get a great vet that works for YOU. With so much invested in him already with training,invest money in his health. I would absolutly check for EPM,PSSM,and do an overall lameness exam but I wouldnt inject at least untill you get results back on EPM. Good luck,dont run off and not keep us posted |
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | He looks really sore in the stifles, more so in the right stifle ( which is usually where EPM shows up first.) He has no impulsion and drags his back toes going both ways. When you stopped him going to the left his right stifle caught. It might be EPM or it might be a joint problem. Im disappointed the vet didn't think he was sore just by watching him travel.
I hope you get him fixed up, he looks like a nice guy.
Edited by Liana D 2016-01-20 7:14 PM
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | Thank you all so very much for the comments and advice! I had him sold and then backed out of the deal because I just know that something isn't right! And, I really feel like he's going to make a decent horse if I could just give him the right opportunities. But, then I'm back to banging my head against a wall because I cannot figure him out.
His stifles do stick occasionally. I just dismissed that thinking there must be other issues.
If anyone is interested, here are a couple of other videos.
This is of him working the flag for the first time. Forgive us, we're terrible. But, you can see that he kicks his hip out every time!!! So frustrating! And, he knows better! So I work on it as training, but maybe it's not??? This pen is very deep sand (same as video in first post) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rjIDW-RFkU
This pen is hard, and it seems to me that he moves much quieter and softer (poor quality, sorry!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn1rDv5kb1Y
Edited by just4fun 2016-01-20 8:04 PM
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Unfortunately EPM doesn't present itself the same in every case. A vet put off testing for three months because he didn't show "typical" signs and passed the neuro exams. The only sign we had was muscle atrophy in the hind end. It was three months too late! Had a spinal tap done and confirmed the EPM. Go with your gut and get it tested. It's a small fee compared to what you risk losing. If it's not you can move on to other things to test for.
After having three horses with EPM, losing one, and retiring another, I test it at the first sign Of something off. Peace of mind for me!
Edited by FlyingJT 2016-01-20 8:21 PM
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Defense Attorney for The Horse
Location: Claremore, OK | Watching him work on the fence he is totally avoiding using his back end, especially on the right hind. You're doing everything correctly, backing before you roll him back, which should put him on his hind end, but he evades it.
Catchy stifles can come from stifle joint soreness, loose ligaments,sore hocks or EPM. Conversely loose stifle ligaments can cause stifle joint pain.
If he were mine, I woud find a good performance vet. your vet saying "that might be his normal gait" shows complete ignorance . |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | FlyingJT - 2016-01-20 8:16 PM Unfortunately EPM doesn't present itself the same in every case. A vet put off testing for three months because he didn't show "typical" signs and passed the neuro exams. The only sign we had was muscle atrophy in the hind end. It was three months too late! Had a spinal tap done and confirmed the EPM. Go with your gut and get it tested. It's a small fee compared to what you risk losing. If it's not you can move on to other things to test for. After having three horses with EPM, losing one, and retiring another, I test it at the first sign Of something off. Peace of mind for me!
All this^^ |
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 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | You should give Dr. Ellison a call. She is super helpful and just wants the horses to get better. She can walk you through every step of your investigation and it isn't too awfully expensive. With what you've said and the weird times when his brain "checks-out" and he does something naughty, it sure could be EPM...
http://pathogenes.com/w/
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | ND3canAddict - 2016-01-22 7:26 AM You should give Dr. Ellison a call. She is super helpful and just wants the horses to get better. She can walk you through every step of your investigation and it isn't too awfully expensive. With what you've said and the weird times when his brain "checks-out" and he does something naughty, it sure could be EPM...http://pathogenes.com/w/
We started him on EPM meds (compound from Wedgewood). He has had 5 doses so far and today I see a very obvious difference. He is lethargic and his gait is very awkward (haven't seen it this bad since he came home from trainer as late 3y/o). I sent him around in the round pen some, and when I asked him to turn and come in, he had a couple of drunk steps before righting himself. He did not repeat it, but I know I saw it...
should add that the whole time he was moving, his ears were pinned flat to his head. That's not super abnormal for his not-so-charming self, but he usually gets over it quickly.
Edited by just4fun 2016-01-27 9:50 PM
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | Personally I would not work him at all.let the meds work and let him heal |
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Worst.Housekeeper.EVER.
Location: Missouri | jake16 - 2016-01-27 9:20 PM Personally I would not work him at all.let the meds work and let him heal
Guess I didn't clarify that I wasn't riding...just sent him around to see how he was moving. I will leave him be now. I've never dealt with this before I didn't realize that he might get worse from the meds. Learning as I go, unfortunately. |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | just4fun - 2016-01-27 10:26 PM
jake16 - 2016-01-27 9:20 PM Personally I would not work him at all.let the meds work and let him heal
Guess I didn't clarify that I wasn't riding...just sent him around to see how he was moving. I will leave him be now. I've never dealt with this before I didn't realize that he might get worse from the meds. Learning as I go, unfortunately.
its a "learn as you go" process.Good luck with your boy and keep us posted. Prayers to you both:) |
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