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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
 
Location: Northwest Florida | Is it possible?
Any success stories you care to share?
I took a chance on a mare. She's a sweet, willing horse as long as there's not a barrel in front of her. She was advertised as a "trail horse with barrel experience". Last year when I went to purchase her, there was no arena for me to try her out in so I just worked her in the field. She seemed to be a beautiful mover with a good handle on her, she was a good age, very well built, and I wasn't investing more than I could afford to lose, so I brought her home with me. The lady I bought her from owned her two years and strictly trail rode, but she said that previous owners said she had been used on barrels before.
After putting her on the pattern for the first time it was obvious she had barrel experience.. but it was very bad experience. She became very tense, was arena sour to the point of rearing up, and once on the pattern would try her best to duck the turns and avoid the pattern altogether.
After discovering this, I did some digging into her history (what I should have done before the purchase, I know) and found the lady who bred and raised her, the owner who patterned her, and found the high school girl who burned her out on the pattern, just by way over practicing, practice that consisted of running repetitively, combined with heavy hands and aggressive whipping...It's no wonder why she hates the pattern.
She has passed a lameness exam, chiro and dental work is good. I have begun showing her hunters, halter, trail, anything to get her in the arena doing something different. I ride her relaxed in a snaffle with a light hand, and she has made leaps and bounds of progress. However, if I try to even trot a pattern she still tries to avoid it and gets upset.
Before I purchased her she had two solid years off, and as soon as I showed her a pattern it all came back to her. I'm afraid more time off just isn't going to work. I don't know if it's time to give up and advertise her, or is there hope? Has anyone gone through this before? I prefer to buy mine unstarted for this reason, but I just fell in love with her build and movement and thought I had found a diamond in the rough. I've never owned a horse that hated running before so I'm pretty much at a loss.
Thanks for any help!
Edited by BigStarBound 2016-02-16 9:03 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 725
| I would do tons and tons of relaxing slow work with her. Show her that you aren't gonna run her legs off, and never ever lose your patience with her, she needs to trust you. Make 100% sure she isn't in any kind of pain, and take it really really slow! Good Luck! | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
 
| What did the vet exam entai? Was the exam done when she was fit?
Flexion tests can be normal if the horses is not in shape or had a few month hiatus.
Also if you didn't get X-rays I would go back and get X-rays as some horses a flexion test won't show anything as they don't experience pain till they turn.
As others have said it takes a long time, I would give an acid buffer (tums, milk of magnesia) 20 min before riding I would start out my ride by walking the pattern then going on a trail ride coming back walking the pattern then getting off at first.
The first week will be not fun, don't worry about form, just worry about walking | |
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 Serious Snap Trapper
Posts: 4275
Location: In The Snow, AZ | I'm dealing with an almost identical problem. Even down to the amount of time off from barrels. So I'll be watching this thread.
Ive been mainly just slow work, away from an actual pattern. I have, however, set up random patterns combining poles, barrels, and small jumps, to keep her mind on me and not on what she has to turn. Lots of counter arcing to let her know we don't have to duck and turn everything. But lots and lots of walking and slow trotting. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | Her flexion tests were done not long after I purchased her, just after I found out about her issue on the pattern. She wasn't in great shape at the time.
Bingo thanks for the idea about setting up different patterns. I learned from her original trainer that she was a very competitive pole mare as well and I have never tried her on the pole pattern. Perhaps setting up different courses would get her thinking more than anticipating and trying to avoid it altogether. So far I have only tried changing her direction and going left, but that did not work. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 425
Location: California | Maybe ground work around the barrels? Walk the barrel pattern with her not ON her? If she has started showing in hunters, how high can she jump? I always liked to jump over barrels (knocked over of course lol). But it kind of brings the barrel back into the picture, without it actually being about running barrels.
As others have said, agree 100% on patience, patience, patience. It sounds like she has already come a long way!  | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 929
| I have one like this...when I got her papers it shows that I am her 8th owner. And I wonder how many people owned her who didn't register her. I spent 2 years gaining her trust, letting her know that I wasn't going to jerk on her or whip her...but that she also couldn't buck me off or scare me with her "craziness." I spent lots of time just walking around at our open arena on barrel night...it took me 3 months just to get her to walk. And if there were barrels or poles anywhere NEAR her in the arena...forget it. it takes a lot of patience but it can be done. Went to a playday series and while she still gets a bit hot before we start, she now waits for me to ask her where to turn rather than trying to grab the bit and run off or panicking on the pattern. We are now starting to win in the 4D.
Yes, it takes a long time and it may not be worth it for some. Personally I like taking other people's "trash" and turning it into something, but not everyone has that kind of time. If you can get somewhere with her I think it would be very rewarding but at the same time I totally understand the frustration...and there are days where you will go back in progress and have to start over or lose 3 weeks worth of work.
Good luck with her!  | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| A very good horsewoman had me do this with a barrel sour mare. I warmed her up and then loped some big circles in front of the pattern, no pattern work. Stopped and let her catch her air in front of the barrels. If she wanted to move around we would go a couple more circles and repeat. I didn't care what kind of lope she was giving me, I didn't lope her into the ground and I didn't demand a quiet lope either. She wasn't capable of that.
You may have to do that several times in a session. When she stood there, if even for a count of 5, I got off, loosened the cinch and hand walked her to cool her out. . When she decided it was no big deal, I asked her to walk circles in front of the barrels. When that was no big deal, I would give her a good workout and when it was time to quit for the day, I would ask her to stand in front of the barrels and get off. Then when that was good, I would do her regular work out and take her to the first at a walk and if she did it, I just either gave her a cookie at her rate point or got off her and loosened her cinch and we were done. All this time loping circles in front of the barrels and walking in front of them for cooling out was done everyday. It was a routine to make the barrels a good place to be again. All through this I did alot of walking in front of the barrels as a catch your breath routine. I didn't have a lot of room to ride.
This process was not a fast one, it took me all summer and she never was a flat foot walk, easy loping kind of mare, she was always hot on the barrels and I had to walk 10 sets of barrels to one lope when she did come around. And really, I didn't work the barrels much on her, she wasn't gonna take that, she knew her pattern. I also always cooled her out on the barrels, just walking them, not nit picking just relaxing and I tried to quit her at the first barrel at the end of her rides.
SKM had some good advice on the hot horse thread you might read. If she was willing, I'd sure pick her brain about this. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1226
| I had one like this too. I didn't lots and lots of trail riding. And like everyone said slow work. Walking a four barrel exercise. When I first got him he would not even walk quietly on the rail. It took me 4 months of just walking no trotting or loping in the arena. But it is possible to bring their minds back. I would ask so say if you do get to the point where you are running again I would not do time onlys over and over. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | Thank you all for giving me some hope! What's different about her, is she is for the most part a pretty calm, easy going horse. She will give me a nice level headed walk, trot and lope, even in an arena where barrels are set up. It's when I take her towards them that I lose her. It sounds like you all have had success with horses that were further gone than she is.. So thanks for the tips! | |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| Time off to heal mentally and physically can work wonders but if after 2 yrs away from barrels, she is still that bad, I would cut my losses and sell her. Your odds are stacked against you. Just FYI I got screwed on a good mare that would pass a typical repurchase exam with flying colors.....flexions and X-rays were great. She had obviously been given injections in her feet very recent to my purchase. A few weeks later she comes up lame. An MRI revealed multiple tears in her deep digital flexor in a front foot along with lots scar tissue,etc so just because she passed a lameness exam doesn't mean she is sound. | |
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 I Don't Brag
Posts: 6960
| I used to love fixing horses like this (also all I could afford). As others suggested, lots of slow work of any kind, eventually with barrels in the arena. not going around them at first. Any time there is good behavior where there used to be bad, she needs some kind of reward, whether it be standing still, dismounting or even a treat, if she is food motivated.
It takes lots of time and patience to gain one's trust again. You may never get it done, but if you do, it is SO rewarding.
Best of luck to you both. If you don't get her fixed, her chances of a good life may go down in someone else's hands. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 966
Location: Loco,Ok | I get them like this along.I take all the junk off their head.Put it on their nose and they all have a job that does not include a barrel.I work cattle and we rope on them.They need to be put in a pressure situation you can controll and tired eneough to want to stop and be still and think some.They will not forget the barrel pattern its chiseled in them to the degree they dread everything and everyone.
Some I will go back and put them in a round pen and drive untill they settle.Then go to cattle.After a while when I see they are focusing on the job not on me and not looking over their shoulder wondering whats coming next.And most all fixes are the same in a manner.The horse will learn that also.They know whats ocming next and get ready to react.You come at these from outside the box so to speak.Some are so shell shocked it can take a long time and some never fully trust and come back to the place they were before.Just like people.The horse will keep something for themselves.Trust and safety have been broken and just like us it can be difficult to rebuild.
They are not autos and kitchen appliances and work like the internet. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2013
Location: Piedmont, OK | Time off to learn how to relax and be a horse again works wonders! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 555
Location: Puky midwest | turn out and leave it alone. Burn out means burn out | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | sliddenaround - 2016-02-16 3:49 PM
turn out and leave it alone. Burn out means burn out
She's coming off of a 2 year hiatus. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| So I don't think that just because she had 2 years off that the issue is either fixed or not fixable. Think about it from a person perspective. Say you fall off your house and its a huge traumatic experience and you don't get on something tall for 2 years. Does that mean your not supposed to be scared when you DO get on something tall 2 years later? You haven't forgotten that you fell, just haven't been approached by the situation so life has been good. Also means you haven't fixed the situation.
I also agree with making the pattern a "safe" and "good" place to be. I would do dry work at the front of the pen or outside somewhere and get her moving and sweating a little and go walk the pattern. Then repeat. Don't expect her to come around in the first few weeks or month even but eventually she will associate pattern with rest. I also agree with only getting off after approaching a barrel. I do that with anxious horses a lot. Approach the first and usually they are a little jittery and wired and I stop and get off. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 434
Location: Northwest Florida | RoaniePonie11 - 2016-02-17 7:28 AM
So I don't think that just because she had 2 years off that the issue is either fixed or not fixable. Think about it from a person perspective. Say you fall off your house and its a huge traumatic experience and you don't get on something tall for 2 years. Does that mean your not supposed to be scared when you DO get on something tall 2 years later? You haven't forgotten that you fell, just haven't been approached by the situation so life has been good. Also means you haven't fixed the situation.
I also agree with making the pattern a "safe" and "good" place to be. I would do dry work at the front of the pen or outside somewhere and get her moving and sweating a little and go walk the pattern. Then repeat. Don't expect her to come around in the first few weeks or month even but eventually she will associate pattern with rest. I also agree with only getting off after approaching a barrel. I do that with anxious horses a lot. Approach the first and usually they are a little jittery and wired and I stop and get off.
I agree with this. That's why I made the point to say she has had two years off, because I don't believe more time off or turn out time as many are suggesting is going to fix anything. If that were the answer it would've been fixed with that much time off.
I definitely am not expecting instant success, as I have already been working at this for at least 6 months or so. A ton of progress has been made as far as being relaxed in an arena, just not so much on the pattern itself.
The tips about getting off at the first barrel, setting up various courses which forces her to listen and not anticipate, are all great ideas that I can see most likely working with her, knowing her issues first hand.
Thanks everyone! | |
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Veteran
Posts: 111
| I've been working a ton with my filly about relaxing and calming down, and listening to me, rather than looking and being concerned with everything else in the world and trying to run out of her shoes. She kind of lost her mind on me a few months ago as I was starting to speed her up on the pattern, and I had to basically start over with her.
I started on the ground, and worked a ton on teaching her to lower her head with pressure from my hand on her poll, among other things. Weirdly enough, I tried this from the saddle with her the other day when she was getting worked up, and it seemed to really help her re-focus. I've been walking her up to the rate point of the barrel, stopping her, putting my hand on her head/upper neck until she lowers her head, and then just letting her sit as long as she wants to. I'm definitely not saying this is going to help your horse specifically, but my filly really seemed to need to know I was there and it has seemed to help her get her confidence back and settle down. I would say any little process like that you can come up with to settle her down and remind her you're there, and that she can be calm and focus on you, could make a huge difference. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | IdahoBarrelRacer756 - 2016-02-17 12:36 PM I've been working a ton with my filly about relaxing and calming down, and listening to me, rather than looking and being concerned with everything else in the world and trying to run out of her shoes. She kind of lost her mind on me a few months ago as I was starting to speed her up on the pattern, and I had to basically start over with her. I started on the ground, and worked a ton on teaching her to lower her head with pressure from my hand on her poll, among other things. Weirdly enough, I tried this from the saddle with her the other day when she was getting worked up, and it seemed to really help her re-focus. I've been walking her up to the rate point of the barrel, stopping her, putting my hand on her head/upper neck until she lowers her head, and then just letting her sit as long as she wants to. I'm definitely not saying this is going to help your horse specifically, but my filly really seemed to need to know I was there and it has seemed to help her get her confidence back and settle down. I would say any little process like that you can come up with to settle her down and remind her you're there, and that she can be calm and focus on you, could make a huge difference.
I had to chuckle when I read the part about lowering the head. I was taught to lower their head at a reining clinic years ago. The horse that I taught to lower his head, used it whenever he felt anxious. He would just automatically lower his head when he was facing something he considered stressful, like running barrels. lol Obviously, that was not what I wanted him to do. Just relating what happened to me! | |
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