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 Veteran
Posts: 178
 
| I recently purchased a property and there is a trainer that currently works out of the barn giving lessons and training (hunter/jumper). She carries her own insurance (which my insurance company also requires), and I think would be a great asset to my facility, since she has many clients and is respected in our area.
My question is how do we work out the price for lessons? She charges $50/hr private or $40/hr group lessons. She currently has an unreal deal there- any people that haul in their horse give the owners $10. Which means when she uses their horses or her own, she gets to keep all of the money and owners get nothing. The owners aren't doing it for a living, and don't really use the indoor. So I guess I'm trying to come up with a fair price for her to work out of my barn (I give lessons and train as well).
So out of the $40 or $50/hr, how much should I charge her? What if the people haul in their own horses? If she uses her horse? If she uses my horse? For her training horses, I keep the board and she keeps the training fee. |
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 Tough Patooty
Posts: 2615
 
Location: Sperry, OK | Maybe just charge her a flat monthly rate to use your facility.. That might be the cleanest way, then you don't have to keep up with what rate each person got charged, ect. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| ACEINTHEHOLE - 2016-04-05 2:11 PM Maybe just charge her a flat monthly rate to use your facility.. That might be the cleanest way, then you don't have to keep up with what rate each person got charged, ect.
This, like hair dressers do. The owner of the salon where I go charges a monthly rent to the other gals who work there. They set their own schedule and as long as they pay the rent all is good. |
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 Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | ACEINTHEHOLE - 2016-04-05 2:11 PM Maybe just charge her a flat monthly rate to use your facility.. That might be the cleanest way, then you don't have to keep up with what rate each person got charged, ect.
^^I'd keep it as simple as possible, otherwise it's going to be a nightmare to keep up with. |
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  JMHO
Posts: 1869
Location: Oklahoma | I guess if she's working out of the barn then she's paying some sort of rent for her horses she own's or stalls for the ones in training. If this is the case then I don't think she owes any more. If she isn't paying some sort of "rent" I'd discuss with her what would be expected per hour (or weekly or monthly) of use.
I don't think it should be any different if she's training horses or people. Personally, I think it should be a monthly flat fee. Her time at the barn is her time to spend riding or giving lessons. |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I agree with a flat fee. I guess it depends on how many horses she keeps there. It does seem that she should be splitting haul ins for lessons in YOUR arena. But consider how many boarders are there because of her. Maybe she can not pay for board or get a discount on her monthly fee IF she keeps so many stalls full with paying customers. |
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Veteran
Posts: 178
| So what should the flat fee be?
There are currently 4 boarders, 2 maybe were there bc of her originally, but the girls are at college now. The other 2 are not from her. She doesn't currently keep any horses there.
The people didn't want a horse business anymore, so just let her use it for lessons. Now I'd like to build the business, and I do think she has potential to help me do that. But just to have her use it for free, then I'm paying the liability for all these people to be there and using it?
I would consider letting her board her horses at cost so she could use them for lessons, so that's something we can negotiate as well. But it still doesn't tell me a fair fee |
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Nut Case Expert
Posts: 9305
Location: Tulsa, Ok | I don't know what a fair price is, but free is not it!! I can't think of any kind of business that gets to use a facility, bldg, space etc for free. Heck I might open a business if I could think of a way to do it with no overhead. |
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 Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | If trainer has horses she is paying for boarding there then her horses are free to use arena..
if any clients have horses there and paying board then arena is free to them.
haul ins for lessons are 10.00 to you..per lesson..
if she wants to have free arena use then she will fill your barn up with clients..or board her own horses there.. contract .. Trust me.. HJ trainers and riders can afford it.. dont allow anyone to take advantage..
Edited by Bibliafarm 2016-04-05 3:53 PM
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Own It and Move On
Location: The edge of no where | joplin21 - 2016-04-05 1:31 PM I recently purchased a property and there is a trainer that currently works out of the barn giving lessons and training (hunter/jumper). She carries her own insurance (which my insurance company also requires), and I think would be a great asset to my facility, since she has many clients and is respected in our area. My question is how do we work out the price for lessons? She charges $50/hr private or $40/hr group lessons. She currently has an unreal deal there- any people that haul in their horse give the owners $10. Which means when she uses their horses or her own, she gets to keep all of the money and owners get nothing. The owners aren't doing it for a living, and don't really use the indoor. So I guess I'm trying to come up with a fair price for her to work out of my barn (I give lessons and train as well). So out of the $40 or $50/hr, how much should I charge her? What if the people haul in their own horses? If she uses her horse? If she uses my horse? For her training horses, I keep the board and she keeps the training fee.
Ok - IF I'm reading this correctly - when people come to the facility for lessons they're paying an additional $10 for use of the arena?
Does she have clients that board with you because she trains there? |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | I would approach it from a mutually agreeable solution.
Sit down with her and discuss openly your concerns, listen to hers and together come up with a solution that is equitable for both parties.
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 Crazy Doggy Mommy
Posts: 1419
Location: Where Governor's make the liscense plates | My best friends parents own "our" barn and her mom always takes half even when it isn't her horses being used. She says its her arena and even kids who have horses that board there have to pay her portion. So it's basically $25 for trainer(her daughter) and $25 for herself/barn. I don't think that's fully fair when the horse is the students own but that's how she does her business and makes money. |
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Veteran
Posts: 178
| If people haul in, and she gives a lesson on their horse, then $10 out of the $50 goes to the owners of the barn. Many of her lessons she hauls her own horses there and uses, and the owner lets her use it for nothing. There are no boarders/horses in training/business there currently because of her. The owners did not want to do the business anymore.
So we say down and spoke, and we'd both like to make it work. We agreed that any horses she brings in for training, I keep the board, she keeps the training fee. As far as the lessons, I just explained that I'm trying to build a business, and certainly can't do it for free (bc I could be using the arena for lessons, training, riding, and need to cover insurance costs). We left it off that I would think about it and get back to her. So here I am on here asking what's fair.
We move in to this property in a week and a half. She gives lessons a few days a week and has a decent client base. However, at this point she isn't really bringing anything in for me business wise, other than she is currently getting pretty much free rent of the arena.
That's why I was thinking of just putting a deposit box in the tack room and she could just give me a certain amount per lesson. But should it be a different amount between haul ins or when she uses her own horse?
And the flat rate- I'm even more clueless what that should be. I sort of feel like per lesson would be easier, just because at this point I don't even know what she brings in a month working out of there. I want to make it fair, but free is not fair- and starting out, she won't have earned free, since I'm not gaining any immediate business. |
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Meanest Teacher!!!
Posts: 8552
Location: sunny california | anytime a horse that is not paying board uses the arena it is $10 no matter who rides it. |
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | kwanatha - 2016-04-05 9:27 PM anytime a horse that is not paying board uses the arena it is $10 no matter who rides it.
agree....that is Simply put.. if horses arent paying board then it costs to use arena.
clients horses or trainers horses.. doesnt matter....if horse is paying board then arena is free to use..
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| Bibliafarm - 2016-04-05 8:37 PM
kwanatha - 2016-04-05 9:27 PM anytime a horse that is not paying board uses the arena it is $10 no matter who rides it.
agree....that is Simply put.. if horses arent paying board then it costs to use arena.
clients horses or trainers horses.. doesnt matter....if horse is paying board then arena is free to use..
agreed. Haul in is haul in no matter who's trailer it comes off of. |
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| KISS system ...
Never allow any one else be responsible for carrying and paying for liability insurance on your property. They will fail to renew and leave you hanging.
Figure this into your costs of running a business.
Additional electric and water costs ... work it out in the costs of your stalls per month without detailing it on the bill ..
How many stalls do you have?? Charge her for 1/3 of the stalls at one end of the barn with tackroom and total off limits on the other (empty) stalls when she holds group sessions.. even if you have to lock and chain them. This gives her incentive to re-coup her money for stalls with boarders. You know everyone including the trainer is going to park their horses in empty stalls ... it is human nature.
Stall charge should be for full care with your standard feed and hay any special feeds or supplements etc are provided by horse owner etc .. then there is no discussion who used what and how much. Feeding time will be at your discretion ... you don't want horses tearing your barn down if feeding time is different if she is allowed to feed on her daily time schedule ..
Arena time ... schedule one hour between your training time and her training time ... and if you are also HJ trainer ... jumps etc have to be fully setup after training sessions ... or removed to a corner of the arena if you train a different event. These schedules and rules should be on a bulletin or chalk board.
Ask her for a written schedule of her group and private sessions ... length of session.. and time of day and days of week etc ... how many in a group so you can figure out trailer parking on haul in's etc ...
and see if your schedule conflicts with her's ..
If she uses one of your horses for sessions ... have a monthly sign out sheet where she signs out the horse(s) on a daily basis with time of session and rider ... this is in a special notebook with form on your counter ... and charge her for use of the horse as a separate item from xx number of stalls ..
Also have a guest sign in book for EVERY rider that comes to use your facilities .. this is your record of day and time anyone was there whether in a training session or using just your arena. May be required by your insurance but is a good record to have .. period ... to know who is using your facilities ... this is also your tally sheet on how many clients she has at group sessions etc .. she doesn't need to know this .. lol .. just say it is an insurance requirement and insist the book be used even if you have to interrupt their training session if guest book number does not match the number of riders in the arena ...
You are running a business so charge her your retail price for full care stalls with the number of stalls compatible with the cost of electricity and maintaining the arena for her haul in solo lessons etc ...
Trainer pays retail full care for xx number of stalls in advance for each month .... if she can't afford it then pass on her using your facilities ... this is how trainers afford to drive the big new trucks by not paying for use of your facilities ... barn owner is left hanging ..
You are going to charge for stalls and not care about tracking down $10 or whatever on her number of students ... this is a flat fee per month so you can keep track of it very easily ....... and no discounts for her wanting to feed horses or stall care etc in her leased stalls ... and you charge for new buckets or whatever to hang in stalls and charge when one needs to be replaced etd ..
This should be a standard for your entire barn ....... Computer print out of horses name and feeding instructions including supplements in a sheet protector or plastic slide in on each stall ... listing morning and evening feeding instructions.
And don't forget to put up signs according to your states equine laws in various places in barn, front door and arena .. any sign shop usually have these or buy from the state ..
Just keep in mind ... you are the owner and you are responsible for setting the mood of leasing stalls to an individual or a trainer ... so nip any crap in the bud early on to abide by your set of standards ..
GOOD LUCK ..
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Warmblood with Wings
Posts: 27846
Location: Florida.. | BARRELHORSE USA - 2016-04-06 5:08 AM KISS system ... Never allow any one else be responsible for carrying and paying for liability insurance on your property. They will fail to renew and leave you hanging. Figure this into your costs of running a business. Additional electric and water costs ... work it out in the costs of your stalls per month without detailing it on the bill .. How many stalls do you have?? Charge her for 1/3 of the stalls at one end of the barn with tackroom and total off limits on the other (empty) stalls when she holds group sessions.. even if you have to lock and chain them. This gives her incentive to re-coup her money for stalls with boarders. You know everyone including the trainer is going to park their horses in empty stalls ... it is human nature. Stall charge should be for full care with your standard feed and hay any special feeds or supplements etc are provided by horse owner etc .. then there is no discussion who used what and how much. Feeding time will be at your discretion ... you don't want horses tearing your barn down if feeding time is different if she is allowed to feed on her daily time schedule .. Arena time ... schedule one hour between your training time and her training time ... and if you are also HJ trainer ... jumps etc have to be fully setup after training sessions ... or removed to a corner of the arena if you train a different event. These schedules and rules should be on a bulletin or chalk board. Ask her for a written schedule of her group and private sessions ... length of session.. and time of day and days of week etc ... how many in a group so you can figure out trailer parking on haul in's etc ... and see if your schedule conflicts with her's .. If she uses one of your horses for sessions ... have a monthly sign out sheet where she signs out the horse(s) on a daily basis with time of session and rider ... this is in a special notebook with form on your counter ... and charge her for use of the horse as a separate item from xx number of stalls .. Also have a guest sign in book for EVERY rider that comes to use your facilities .. this is your record of day and time anyone was there whether in a training session or using just your arena. May be required by your insurance but is a good record to have .. period ... to know who is using your facilities ... this is also your tally sheet on how many clients she has at group sessions etc .. she doesn't need to know this .. lol .. just say it is an insurance requirement and insist the book be used even if you have to interrupt their training session if guest book number does not match the number of riders in the arena ... You are running a business so charge her your retail price for full care stalls with the number of stalls compatible with the cost of electricity and maintaining the arena for her haul in solo lessons etc ... Trainer pays retail full care for xx number of stalls in advance for each month .... if she can't afford it then pass on her using your facilities ... this is how trainers afford to drive the big new trucks by not paying for use of your facilities ... barn owner is left hanging .. You are going to charge for stalls and not care about tracking down $10 or whatever on her number of students ... this is a flat fee per month so you can keep track of it very easily ....... and no discounts for her wanting to feed horses or stall care etc in her leased stalls ... and you charge for new buckets or whatever to hang in stalls and charge when one needs to be replaced etd .. This should be a standard for your entire barn ....... Computer print out of horses name and feeding instructions including supplements in a sheet protector or plastic slide in on each stall ... listing morning and evening feeding instructions. And don't forget to put up signs according to your states equine laws in various places in barn, front door and arena .. any sign shop usually have these or buy from the state .. Just keep in mind ... you are the owner and you are responsible for setting the mood of leasing stalls to an individual or a trainer ... so nip any crap in the bud early on to abide by your set of standards .. GOOD LUCK ..
Thats great for a larger business.. She posted there are only 9 stalls and trainer doesnt have horses there nor client..
also they do not use posters horses.. so it all factors into..BUT I will point out.. Contract is very important and care of property and also INSURANCE..keep a copy because some say they have it and dont.. Id personally not allow it if no clients boarded there but thats just me.. People tend to respect others property if it directly affects them..(broken jumps, fences, etc) |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 695
Location: Windoming | wow, I would love to only pay $10 to ride in an indoor barn. I currently pay $23/hour with a two hour minimum. |
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 Off the Wall Wacky
Posts: 2981
Location: Louisiana | Silly Filly - 2016-04-06 9:37 AM wow, I would love to only pay $10 to ride in an indoor barn. I currently pay $23/hour with a two hour minimum.
Anywhere around here is $25/hour. That would be before paying the trainer that you meet there. So she and her clients are getting a great deal!!
I would make it very clear to her that you do see her as an asset to your new business. You don't want to raise her fees so much that she potentially loses clients, or you lose her. But you also need to make money.
Have you researched other barns/arenas in the area? Are there any others nearby?
I like the idea of a flat monthly fee just to keep it simple for you both.
But how much? Ok...
Just go by what she typically does each week...
10 lessons per week? All outside horses equals $100. Even if they're her own horses. ANY horse being trailered in. So that's $400 per month.
I would say that if you do go the route of a flat fee, set a limit on lessons. Say $400 with a max of 50 lessons, if she uses all 50 allotted, it's like she's getting "free" use for 10 of them.
Of of course that's just a general idea. I would also think about if she normally does lessons during the day, or at night when lights are needed.
I just feel like a flat fee would be sooo much easier for you both. You don't need to keep up with every single lesson. And get paid $10 at a time. |
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