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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
  
Location: GODS country | Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck..... | |
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Expert
Posts: 3514
 
| None of the above. Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. Simplify your feeding program. You won't be sorry. | |
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 Bulls Eye
Posts: 6443
Location: Oklahoma | I switched back to Safe Choice Original. I also feed my broodmares alfalfa pellets | |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I'd chose ultium. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | readytorodeo - 2016-04-19 8:12 AM
None of the above. Kool Speed Plus with Vitalize High Performance and Equine Regen. Simplify your feeding program. You won't be sorry.
I do feed Vitalize and have not seen a change yet (at 30 days). Kool Speed Plus is not in my area. We don't have a lot to choose from! | |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 7:00 AM
I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well.
I tried Renew Gold for few months as well and my horses did not do well. One thing to keep in mind with ANY commercial feed is the mill. Different parts of the country get their feed milled at different places. SOme of these places are horse only feeds and some also produce medicated cattle feed. I liked the results with safe choice origional as well but the mill its made at here in CA I know produces medicated cattle feed. I have not heard of any issues with it but it scares me to try it again. We have a local mill here that produces quality feeds in a safe mill so thats what I am using now. I LOVED ultium.. but even at ONE pound a day my horses were bouncing off the walls. But they looked BEAUTIFUL bouncing all over the place. lol | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | FLITASTIC - 2016-04-19 9:06 AM
countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 7:00 AM
I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well.
I tried Renew Gold for few months as well and my horses did not do well. One thing to keep in mind with ANY commercial feed is the mill. Different parts of the country get their feed milled at different places. SOme of these places are horse only feeds and some also produce medicated cattle feed. I liked the results with safe choice origional as well but the mill its made at here in CA I know produces medicated cattle feed. I have not heard of any issues with it but it scares me to try it again. We have a local mill here that produces quality feeds in a safe mill so thats what I am using now. I LOVED ultium.. but even at ONE pound a day my horses were bouncing off the walls. But they looked BEAUTIFUL bouncing all over the place. lol
How do you go about finding out? OK-KS-NE area | |
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Expert
Posts: 5293
| ecranch - 2016-04-19 7:24 AM
FLITASTIC - 2016-04-19 9:06 AM
countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 7:00 AM
I was like you and did not have good luck with Renew Gold on one of my horses. I switched her to Ultium and have been extremely happy with the results. She only gets 4 lbs a day, so it's not that much more than the amount of Renew Gold that I was feeding her to try to keep her weight on it and works out to be cheaper for me to feed.
Those who are suggesting other feeds, please keep in mind that not everyone has access to the same feeds that you do such as Kool Speed Plus. I have to drive almost 2 hours just to get Renew Gold for the one who is still on it, and within an hours drive I mainly have access to only local feed mixes or Nutrena and Purina. I know many others who are like this as well.
I tried Renew Gold for few months as well and my horses did not do well. One thing to keep in mind with ANY commercial feed is the mill. Different parts of the country get their feed milled at different places. SOme of these places are horse only feeds and some also produce medicated cattle feed. I liked the results with safe choice origional as well but the mill its made at here in CA I know produces medicated cattle feed. I have not heard of any issues with it but it scares me to try it again. We have a local mill here that produces quality feeds in a safe mill so thats what I am using now. I LOVED ultium.. but even at ONE pound a day my horses were bouncing off the walls. But they looked BEAUTIFUL bouncing all over the place. lol
How do you go about finding out? OK-KS-NE area
Look at your TAG on the feed bag it will have a code. Nutrena feeds are easy. It will say the date it was made AND the mill code ( 3 letters). Out here in CA some of my bags say STK ( Stockton) and some say CG ( Casa Grande, AZ). Safechoice line always comes from STK where the pro force comes from CG. Don't bother calling the manufacturer. THey will feed you a line of crap about safety protocols etc. Google the mill and call the mill directly. Ask them if they produce medicated cattle feeds in the same facility. Be prepared to be on hold a while while they hope you just hang up, or transfer you to a bunch of people. Be persistent. I called Nutrena once and they told me my mill was NOT cattle feed mill, but the mill directly said they did. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:07 AM
Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck.....
What are the specifics on the no luck part?
If you didn't have luck with that program, I would find it hard to believe that safechoice or ultium will bring anything necessarily different. Ultimately, all feed programs with less than 5-6 lbs of concentrate are made or failed by the forage portion of the diet, either by low quality or quantity or a combination of both. Feed at least 16-20 lbs of good forage (in any combination) and most anything is only an afterthought or icing on the cake after that.
Just food for thought. I often times see folks looking for different feeds, looking for better results. Often times they are looking in the wrong place at the wrong problem.
Edited by Tdove 2016-04-19 10:19 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
Edited by Tdove 2016-04-19 10:28 AM
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 Undercover Amish Mafia Member
Posts: 9992
Location: Kansas | Ultium definitely, however, downside for me was that it made my gelding hot. But he filled out and looked slick. Shined like a penny. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:16 AM
ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:07 AM
Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck.....
What are the specifics on the no luck part?
If you didn't have luck with that program, I would find it hard to believe that safechoice or ultium will bring anything necessarily different. Ultimately, all feed programs with less than 5-6 lbs of concentrate are made or failed by the forage portion of the diet, either by low quality or quantity or a combination of both. Feed at least 16-20 lbs of good forage (in any combination ) and most anything is only an afterthought or icing on the cake after that.
Just food for thought. I often times see folks looking for different feeds, looking for better results. Often times they are looking in the wrong place at the wrong problem.
She is wormed regularly, teeth just floated (1 sharp edge, otherwise good) and she is on free choice prairie hay and flake of alfalfa am/pm....now that pasture is starting to come up, she will be on pasture 24/7. Added oats as well with Vitalize supplement.
There just isn't any "bloom" or "glow" to her anymore.....not slicking out.....almost ribby.
And she performs and trains great. Not moody....she has been treated for ulcers and that is not a problem anymore. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I suspect that the prairie hay is most to blame than anything. You can change feeds and give more of it or you could look for better forage. The latter is always my first choice. Depending on the strength of your pasture, that may help quite a bit.
I feel like we often times forget that concentrated feeds are are add-ons to a feed program. The most efficient feeding regime consist of mainly high quality forage (whether in pasture, baled hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, or any combination of those) then complemented with other energy and nutrition sources at complementary amounts of 4-5lbs. Concentrated feeds are never best used to overcome poor forage at higher feed rates, even though that is how they are generally marketed.
I would also like to stress that supplements are almost never ever a solution to a poor feed program. They have the highest costs of any feed program component with no question the least results. I am not against them at all, but the perception and marketing of them is often times not accurate of how they can or cant be beneficial. This is true 99% of the time.
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Red Bull Agressive
Posts: 5981
Location: North Dakota | Safechoice is NOT a safe choice at all. I would NEVER buy anything from Nutrena. Between the two Ultium at least isn't putting your horse at risk for poisoning. Many horses at my barn are on it. They all do look decent so as far as processed feeds go, I'd say it's a relatively good one. Personally, if the RG isn't really working for you, I'd try oats, flax, and alfalfa before going to a pellet. | |
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Red Hot Cardinal Fan
Posts: 4122
| Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:26 AM Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
It really isn't that expensive in my opinion. I pay a little less than $25 a bag, making each pound $0.50. Feeding 4 lbs a day is only $2 a day. With Renew Gold, I was feeding $3 a day (3 lbs when the recommendation was 1.5) trying to get her to keep her weight. If one were to feed the recommended weight of Ulitium, yes it would be expensive but for most horses I would imagine they don't need that much.
Also, your post above regarding forage being the primary source of a diet and grains secondary, yes I agree with you but in my case that wasn't the problem. My mare was getting 20 lbs of decent quality alfalfa hay, the best quality that I can find in our area and unlimited good grass hay plus 3 lbs of Renew Gold. She lost fullness in her topline and overall filling over her rump and ribs. Her hay remained the same and I swapped out the Renew Gold for Ulitium and it may a world of difference. Initialy she was probably getting 6 lbs a day of Ulitium but now she is down to 4 lbs. Every horse is an individual and what "should be" or what works on some doesn't always work on others. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 795
Location: GODS country | Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:45 AM
Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I suspect that the prairie hay is most to blame than anything. You can change feeds and give more of it or you could look for better forage. The latter is always my first choice. Depending on the strength of your pasture, that may help quite a bit.
I feel like we often times forget that concentrated feeds are are add-ons to a feed program. The most efficient feeding regime consist of mainly high quality forage (whether in pasture, baled hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, or any combination of those) then complemented with other energy and nutrition sources at complementary amounts of 4-5lbs. Concentrated feeds are never best used to overcome poor forage at higher feed rates, even though that is how they are generally marketed.
I would also like to stress that supplements are almost never ever a solution to a poor feed program. They have the highest costs of any feed program component with no question the least results. I am not against them at all, but the perception and marketing of them is often times not accurate of how they can or cant be beneficial. This is true 99% of the time.
It is a split between prairie and brome hay, which is the best quality I can get my hands on in my area. The alfalfa is great! | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | ecranch - 2016-04-19 11:12 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:45 AM
Thanks for your reply. Honestly, I suspect that the prairie hay is most to blame than anything. You can change feeds and give more of it or you could look for better forage. The latter is always my first choice. Depending on the strength of your pasture, that may help quite a bit.
I feel like we often times forget that concentrated feeds are are add-ons to a feed program. The most efficient feeding regime consist of mainly high quality forage (whether in pasture, baled hay, hay cubes, hay pellets, or any combination of those) then complemented with other energy and nutrition sources at complementary amounts of 4-5lbs. Concentrated feeds are never best used to overcome poor forage at higher feed rates, even though that is how they are generally marketed.
I would also like to stress that supplements are almost never ever a solution to a poor feed program. They have the highest costs of any feed program component with no question the least results. I am not against them at all, but the perception and marketing of them is often times not accurate of how they can or cant be beneficial. This is true 99% of the time.
It is a split between prairie and brome hay, which is the best quality I can get my hands on in my area. The alfalfa is great!
Has your hay been tested? You could feed more of the alfalfa, or find some cubes or pellets even. By increasing the alfalfa forage, they will consume less of the grass hay. These are merely suggestions as alternatives. There are always options one way or the other. I hope that helps. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1695
Location: Willows, CA | ecranch - 2016-04-19 10:30 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:16 AM
ecranch - 2016-04-19 8:07 AM
Which do you prefer?
Tried the RG with oats and alfalfa program for 6 months, no luck.....
What are the specifics on the no luck part?
If you didn't have luck with that program, I would find it hard to believe that safechoice or ultium will bring anything necessarily different. Ultimately, all feed programs with less than 5-6 lbs of concentrate are made or failed by the forage portion of the diet, either by low quality or quantity or a combination of both. Feed at least 16-20 lbs of good forage (in any combination ) and most anything is only an afterthought or icing on the cake after that.
Just food for thought. I often times see folks looking for different feeds, looking for better results. Often times they are looking in the wrong place at the wrong problem.
She is wormed regularly, teeth just floated (1 sharp edge, otherwise good ) and she is on free choice prairie hay and flake of alfalfa am/pm....now that pasture is starting to come up, she will be on pasture 24/7. Added oats as well with Vitalize supplement.
There just isn't any "bloom" or "glow" to her anymore.....not slicking out.....almost ribby.
And she performs and trains great. Not moody....she has been treated for ulcers and that is not a problem anymore.
Your reply made my point on feeding Renew Gold with grass hay and some alfalfa. When you mentioned teeth were good with the exception of one sharp point. You solved your own problem. Most grass hays will not be digested properly in the hind gut unless chewed well. One sharp point will irritate the side of the tongue and the horse will chew enough to swallow, but not enough to completely break up the hay for effective digestion. As a result much of the nutrition that is in that hay ends up on the ground behind the horse. If you fix that problem, then change feeds with a positive result, that result came from the increased digestion of the grass hay because the horse can now comfortably chew, not the change in feed. When we see a customer feeding 1 to 1 1/2 pounds of Renew Gold and plenty quality hay but not getting a result, something is preventing the complete digestion of the program. In the vast majority of those cases, it is a teeth issue. I talk to a lot of customers on the phone who say that the teeth were done in the last six months to a year. They assume that this can't be an issue. Don't assume that a point was not missed, that a point did not develop since, or that the work was properly done. I have seen hooks on the inside of the lower back teeth that were supposedly checked the day before by a vet. They were missed because the vet check was done by just putting a thumb along the outside of the uppers and not even looking at the lowers. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | countrygirl2006 - 2016-04-19 11:09 AM
Tdove - 2016-04-19 10:26 AM Between the two and cost aside, I personally would probably go with Ultium. It is incredibly expensive. I don't believe it is anything special by any means. Safechoice, I would never feed that again, personally. Different mills producing different formulas, least cost formula instead of fixed, and ingredient list virtually hidden except for the vague, by law tag. I would not prefer to feed it over many other things, myself.
It really isn't that expensive in my opinion. I pay a little less than $25 a bag, making each pound $0.50. Feeding 4 lbs a day is only $2 a day. With Renew Gold, I was feeding $3 a day (3 lbs when the recommendation was 1.5) trying to get her to keep her weight. If one were to feed the recommended weight of Ulitium, yes it would be expensive but for most horses I would imagine they don't need that much. Also, your post above regarding forage being the primary source of a diet and grains secondary, yes I agree with you but in my case that wasn't the problem. My mare was getting 20 lbs of decent quality alfalfa hay, the best quality that I can find in our area and unlimited good grass hay plus 3 lbs of Renew Gold. She lost fullness in her topline and overall filling over her rump and ribs. Her hay remained the same and I swapped out the Renew Gold for Ulitium and it may a world of difference. Initialy she was probably getting 6 lbs a day of Ulitium but now she is down to 4 lbs. Every horse is an individual and what "should be" or what works on some doesn't always work on others.
First of all, analyzing how much you feed in comparison to what it costs is somewhat of a marketing ploy by expensive feeds. That really isn't the best way determine cost or compare. Both Ulitium and Renew Gold are at the very upper end of the expense category, no matter how you look at it. I am not saying either is bad just because of it. Both Ultium and Renew Gold are high fat, high energy feeds and are somewhat comparable energy and fat wise. Both should have low feeding rates. The recommended feeding rate is set by the manufacturer and is quite arbitrary. Renew Gold has set theirs low and Utlium higher. To think there is any negligible difference between 3lbs of RG and 4lbs of Ultium doesn't stand the reality test, when all other things are equal. Now 6lbs yes. Also as the horse gains weight, health improves and often times a lower maintenance feeding rate can be achieved. Unless you have tested hay then and now, with the same results, or the horse had a digestive issue then and is now functioning better, then I would still believe the hay quality to be your issue. Either way, it is not a case of 3lbs of RG didn't work, while 4lbs of Ultium is the ticket. If the horse had a good digestive system and the hay was good quality, 20lbs of alfalfa and the rest free choice good grass hay, would not show a decrease in weight, regardless of the 3-4 lbs of anything else you were feeding. This is true because the concentrate portion is only 12-13% of the diet. It is the 87-88% that matters most, every time.
I have fed hundreds of horses and they are all the same. The only exceptions are those with a metabolic disorder, an immunity issue, or a digestive issue. I have never bought into they are all different when it comes to effectiveness of feed sources and ingredients. They are all much more the same than they are different, unless there is a correlating third party factor, affecting health.
Edited by Tdove 2016-04-19 12:15 PM
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