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 Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
   
Location: Kansas | Many of you are familiar with my big red Streak horse, and I want to once again say that I just love this gentle giant! He won a 5D check, a 4D average check (because there wasn't a 5D average), and was one spot out of another average check and two other open 5D checks last weekend.
However, I think we'd be chasing 3D checks or even hitting the 2D if we could clean up our first barrel. The right lead has NEVER been his strong suit, and the fact that he's taking it automatically coming in the alley is impressive on its own, but I'd like to not feel like I have to completely drag him through the back side of the first barrel turn.
Here are our videos from the weekend --
Friday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nLeH5a65k8
Saturday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWiXCptIO0c
Sunday: https://youtu.be/c9IaPugDsjY
I don't know if it's his footwork, my body positioning, how we set up for the turn (do we need a bigger pocket?) or if our bit is contributing to the yucky first barrel. I am really having to drive him to his spot because he wants to be Mr. Ratey, but I felt like this weekend, I got him deeper on the first barrel all 3 runs.
Currently, he's running in a fairly long shanked bit with moderate gag and a solid three-piece mouth that includes a copper roller, and a rope bonnet tiedown. I've tried a Mike Beers chain mouth bit, regular noseband tiedown, Jr. Cowhorse with the same mouthpiece as the longer shanked bit he's using now, a chain mouth Rosie gag and even a knockoff Simplicity bit. He pushes through the shorter shanked bits but I feel like he's bracing on the longer shanked one or the Beers bit.
I am open to suggestions on anything that will help us clean this turn up. I think he's really working his second and third barrels and trying to be honest about everything, but this right turn is just really a struggle for us right now.
Edited by rodeowithjoker 2016-04-25 1:05 PM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
 
| I would go back to basics and trot the horse to the first barrel and sit down in the turns to teach him to rate. Ride him to the barrel two handed then drop the outside rein, sit and turn. It looks to me that the horse has not been taught to move off the inside foot and rein. You are pulling him off the barrels with the outside rein and I think if he moved off the inside rein you would get that first barrel down. You are just going in and loping around the barrel and not really turning it if you can understanding what i am saying. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Curious: How does he turn to the right if you reverse the pattern on him? (and run to the left barrel first) If he turns it night, then it very well could be your approach to that first barrel and/or how you are cueing him for that first barrel.
I agree it looks like you are loping a circle around the first barrel, rather than "turning" it. I definately go back to slow work and teach him to FINISH that first barrel like he does the other two. Also pay attention to how you cue him for the 2nd and 3rd barrel, and compare that to how you are currently turning the first.
Any possibility he'd be sore turning to the right?
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | r_beau - 2016-04-25 1:19 PM Curious: How does he turn to the right if you reverse the pattern on him? (and run to the left barrel first) If he turns it night, then it very well could be your approach to that first barrel and/or how you are cueing him for that first barrel.
I agree it looks like you are loping a circle around the first barrel, rather than "turning" it. I definately go back to slow work and teach him to FINISH that first barrel like he does the other two. Also pay attention to how you cue him for the 2nd and 3rd barrel, and compare that to how you are currently turning the first.
Any possibility he'd be sore turning to the right?
I don't see any way that running him to the left will be successful. He's so stiff and uncoordinated going right that I imagine only bad things could happen making 2 right turns instead of 1! LOL.
We are just kind of loping a circle around the first barrel because his footwork is not good and I haven't hit on the right strategy to teach better/quicker footwork to him. He's turned into Mr. Automatic on the 2nd and 3rd barrels so I'm not really cueing him there at all. I just drive him all the way and drop my outside rein when we're in the right spot to start the turn.
My gut feeling is that he's not sore - his footwork has always been bad going right. I think he just doesn't get it yet. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| Try giving him some aids during practice. Use some tires, set one coming in, one behind the barrel (both of these against the barrel)and another to the outside where he needs to push off(so he has to leave between the barrel and the tire). Trot this for a while and then move up to a lope. Also, rate, he needs to shorten his stride so he can get his butt under himself. I would even ask him to also stop and cross over his front on the backside.
I would do all rights, five barrel drill. |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | FlyingJT - 2016-04-25 1:53 PM Try giving him some aids during practice. Use some tires, set one coming in, one behind the barrel (both of these against the barrel)and another to the outside where he needs to push off(so he has to leave between the barrel and the tire). Trot this for a while and then move up to a lope. Also, rate, he needs to shorten his stride so he can get his butt under himself. I would even ask him to also stop and cross over his front on the backside. I would do all rights, five barrel drill.
That sounds like it would really help. Thank you!
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 Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | I agree with the drills, that should help him but I'm going to suggest a bit with no gag.
How is he different with a chain mouthpiece and a 3 piece mouthpiece exactly? I know you said bracy with Mike Beers and long shank mod gag 3 piece and pushes through the others but is he naturally stiffer or noodley? |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | cecollins0811 - 2016-04-25 3:19 PM I agree with the drills, that should help him but I'm going to suggest a bit with no gag. How is he different with a chain mouthpiece and a 3 piece mouthpiece exactly? I know you said bracy with Mike Beers and long shank mod gag 3 piece and pushes through the others but is he naturally stiffer or noodley?
He folds his neck in half which of course stops all his forward momentum. I feel like he is still pretty stiff through his ribcage, especially to the right.
I'll try to get some of our older videos in different bits (Mike Beers & Rosie gag are ones I know I have) put on Youtube.
My feeling from riding him the last couple years is that once he figures something out, he'll do it the same way every time. He is a really smart horse and when he finally learns how to turn the first barrel, I think he'll do it automatically. He WANTS to be a good boy.
He has all the makings of a super nice old lady or youth barrel horse. (Not that I want to hand over the reins even if I had an old lady or a kid who needed a barrel horse.....he's too fun to remove from my lineup). |
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 Money Eating Baggage Owner
Posts: 9586
Location: Phoenix | I agree he seems really stiff to the right....which makes me think that if you were to do more of a teardrop style turn he might like it better. You pull OUT more on the first while the other two barrels you LIFT. You might need to do a lot of work bending and flexing him. What if you took off the bonnet and used a combo type bit? |
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Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | (I'd love to see videos of him with those other bits!)
I think maybe a combo could work too but I could also seeing him pushing on it after a couple of rides. Maybe the bit that he needs isn't even on your radar. This last year I've stopped focusing on trying all my light bits and trying to make a horse/bit combo work and started buying and using bits that you don't typically see advertised by barrel racers. My goal was to find the bit that the horse liked and nothing else. So far from what you've told us he doesn't like the mouthpieces; copper roller 3 piece, chain, and dogbone (or that's what I'm guessing with the knock off Simplicity bit.) Maybe try a few mouthpieces like these
 
 
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | OK I finally am getting those older videos put on YouTube.
Here's our Feb. 14 run in the longer shanked gag bit & bonnet (first run in that headgear). https://youtu.be/nNnBl3yGmqU
This is our run last Sunday, April 17 in the chain mouth Rosie gag bit and bonnet. https://youtu.be/VbH-deRyj3Y
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Expert
Posts: 1631
Location: Somewhere around here | Idk if it was the camera angle or what but it seemed (to me) that he had a better first barrel with the Beers bit(?). I noticed that you use two hands going around the first. Any reason besides he still newish to the pattern?
Edited by cecollins0811 2016-04-26 2:37 PM
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | I didn't post a video with the Beers bit. I was using it and a regular tiedown but changed for the Feb. 14th run and have been in the bonnet since then. He was extremely bracey and ran WAY past the first on Feb. 13th in the Beers bit & tiedown.
If I drop my outside rein on the first barrel (which I did in the Saturday 4/23 video but you can't see it because as soon as I dropped it, I felt him keep drifting to the fence and picked the rein back up), his body just floats out of the turn even worse. He's not really newish to the pattern but this first barrel is a major struggle for him so I've kept two-handing him to try and control that turn a little more. |
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Expert
Posts: 1857
| rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-26 10:12 AM
I didn't post a video with the Beers bit. I was using it and a regular tiedown but changed for the Feb. 14th run and have been in the bonnet since then. He was extremely bracey and ran WAY past the first on Feb. 13th in the Beers bit & tiedown.
If I drop my outside rein on the first barrel (which I did in the Saturday 4/23 video but you can't see it because as soon as I dropped it, I felt him keep drifting to the fence and picked the rein back up), his body just floats out of the turn even worse. He's not really newish to the pattern but this first barrel is a major struggle for him so I've kept two-handing him to try and control that turn a little more.
I liked how he looked in the rosie gag. He set up nice and it looked like he was going to turn it and then he drifted, exactly like you said, on the backside. You are 100% sure there isn't a soreness issue with the right stifle? |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | hammer_time - 2016-04-26 2:36 AM I agree he seems really stiff to the right....which makes me think that if you were to do more of a teardrop style turn he might like it better. You pull OUT more on the first while the other two barrels you LIFT. You might need to do a lot of work bending and flexing him. What if you took off the bonnet and used a combo type bit?
I have one combo bit and I think it might work on him except the noseband is WAY too small. He's huge so it's really hard to find things that fit right. I can't even get the o-ring combo bit on his face. lol. |
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 Expert
Posts: 5293
| Just my opinion here. I always start my horses a certain style but if they deviate from that and pick a way they like to turn and it works, I kind of let them do it so we both can be happy. I don't believe in picking on one to make them conform to a certain style. To me, if I was running your horse, I would almost shoot for a roll back turn on the first then keep the other 2 the same as he seems to be really consistent and bendy on those. I would push him to the hip on the first, sit and see if you can't get him to roll back all in one motion on that first barrel. He sure seems trainable and is listening! |
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  Witty Enough
Posts: 2954
Location: CTX | OK, here is my $0.02.
I really watched you in all the runs not your horse..... Going around 1st you are not looking at where you have to go. You don't look at 2nd untill he is aimed at it. But on both 2nd and 3rd you look where you have to go a lot sooner.
And the reason I noticed is because I have issues with that too, if I am looking where I should be looking we have a very nice 1st, but if I am not looking around to 2nd we will have a semi-truck turn.... most of the time my 2nd and 3rd are alright, so no problem there. Unless I look straight at the barrel, and that usualy means we hit it.
Also he doesn't seem to rate on 1st, so might have to do some more slow work on that.
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | FLITASTIC - 2016-04-26 10:23 AM Just my opinion here. I always start my horses a certain style but if they deviate from that and pick a way they like to turn and it works, I kind of let them do it so we both can be happy. I don't believe in picking on one to make them conform to a certain style. To me, if I was running your horse, I would almost shoot for a roll back turn on the first then keep the other 2 the same as he seems to be really consistent and bendy on those. I would push him to the hip on the first, sit and see if you can't get him to roll back all in one motion on that first barrel. He sure seems trainable and is listening!
I'd love to do this, but we aren't even getting that accomplished. Any suggestions of how to teach this? |
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Am I really the Weirdo?
Posts: 11181
Location: Kansas | cranky B4 10am - 2016-04-26 10:25 AM OK, here is my $0.02.
I really watched you in all the runs not your horse..... Going around 1st you are not looking at where you have to go. You don't look at 2nd untill he is aimed at it. But on both 2nd and 3rd you look where you have to go a lot sooner.
And the reason I noticed is because I have issues with that too, if I am looking where I should be looking we have a very nice 1st, but if I am not looking around to 2nd we will have a semi-truck turn.... most of the time my 2nd and 3rd are alright, so no problem there. Unless I look straight at the barrel, and that usualy means we hit it.
Also he doesn't seem to rate on 1st, so might have to do some more slow work on that.
I'm not surprised to hear this. I know it's a weakness of mine. |
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Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | rodeowithjoker - 2016-04-25 1:33 PM r_beau - 2016-04-25 1:19 PM Curious: How does he turn to the right if you reverse the pattern on him? (and run to the left barrel first) If he turns it night, then it very well could be your approach to that first barrel and/or how you are cueing him for that first barrel.
I agree it looks like you are loping a circle around the first barrel, rather than "turning" it. I definately go back to slow work and teach him to FINISH that first barrel like he does the other two. Also pay attention to how you cue him for the 2nd and 3rd barrel, and compare that to how you are currently turning the first.
Any possibility he'd be sore turning to the right?
I don't see any way that running him to the left will be successful. He's so stiff and uncoordinated going right that I imagine only bad things could happen making 2 right turns instead of 1! LOL.
We are just kind of loping a circle around the first barrel because his footwork is not good and I haven't hit on the right strategy to teach better/quicker footwork to him. He's turned into Mr. Automatic on the 2nd and 3rd barrels so I'm not really cueing him there at all. I just drive him all the way and drop my outside rein when we're in the right spot to start the turn.
My gut feeling is that he's not sore - his footwork has always been bad going right. I think he just doesn't get it yet.
So work twice as hard on his bad side!! 
As others have already suggested, do lots of drills at home working to the right. Of course, don't completely ignore the left, but if his problem is primarily on the right, then work extra hard on that side.
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