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Location: Cocoa, Florida | I have a bad bleeder that hates shots, very thin skinned, was wondering if the timing for oral lasix should be longer and how much longer?
Also, is there anything you can give them after for taste? I imagine after a couple hours the taste would be horrible in their mouth! |
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 Extreme Veteran
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| I tried it once and didn't have any luck with it. The dose will have to me much higher and given farther out. I gave mine then gave a few cc's of molasses afterwards for the taste. |
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 Coyote Country Queen
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| I had one that I dosed orally. I wrote it down so I could remember the dosage and time frame. When I get back to the house I'll look it up and let you know. |
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | Jenbabe - 2016-05-20 10:47 AM
I had one that I dosed orally. I wrote it down so I could remember the dosage and time frame. When I get back to the house I'll look it up and let you know.
Thank you very much |
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 No Name Nancy
Posts: 2715
Location: never in the right place | my vet told me 10 pills 2 hrs out. It did seem to work but he got hurt and hasn't run in about 3 yrs. Getting back to it again and I am hoping he won't bleed, but if he does I might go back to the pills |
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Coyote Country Queen
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| This is the regimen I was using for my mare with breathing issues. This mare never bled out, and I was never close to a vet to have her scoped to see if she was actually bleeding. After a run she would drop her head and cough. She also had either allergies or COPD, so she had several issues going on with her lungs.
3-4 hours out - 3cc Ventipulmin
3 hours out - 5cc Lasix orally
2 hours out - 5cc Dex IV (I added this towards the end of her competitive career as her allergies/COPD became worse)
1 hour out - 1 oz Super Wind
This mare got pnuemonia the last summer before she was retired (retired due to soundness) and she was treated at the state get school. When I was discussing this regimen with them they told me that they'd done testing on oral Lasix and found it to not be effective. However, the testing they'd done was with Lasix that was formulated to be given orally. My vet had prescribed IV Lasix to be given orally. I trust that my vet has seen effectiveness in dosing this way or he wouldn't have suggested it. |
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 Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Jenbabe - 2016-05-20 2:09 PM This is the regimen I was using for my mare with breathing issues. This mare never bled out, and I was never close to a vet to have her scoped to see if she was actually bleeding. After a run she would drop her head and cough. She also had either allergies or COPD, so she had several issues going on with her lungs. 3-4 hours out - 3cc Ventipulmin 3 hours out - 5cc Lasix orally 2 hours out - 5cc Dex IV (I added this towards the end of her competitive career as her allergies/COPD became worse) 1 hour out - 1 oz Super Wind This mare got pnuemonia the last summer before she was retired (retired due to soundness) and she was treated at the state get school. When I was discussing this regimen with them they told me that they'd done testing on oral Lasix and found it to not be effective. However, the testing they'd done was with Lasix that was formulated to be given orally. My vet had prescribed IV Lasix to be given orally. I trust that my vet has seen effectiveness in dosing this way or he wouldn't have suggested it.
I've used to pills and didn't feel as though they were effective on the horse I tried them with. When you gave the injectible form orally, did you feel as though it had the same effect as IV or IM? Did your mare still urinate excessively as they do with lasix?
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Coyote Country Queen
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| barrelracinbroke - 2016-05-20 4:25 PM
Jenbabe - 2016-05-20 2:09 PM This is the regimen I was using for my mare with breathing issues. This mare never bled out, and I was never close to a vet to have her scoped to see if she was actually bleeding. After a run she would drop her head and cough. She also had either allergies or COPD, so she had several issues going on with her lungs. 3-4 hours out - 3cc Ventipulmin 3 hours out - 5cc Lasix orally 2 hours out - 5cc Dex IV (I added this towards the end of her competitive career as her allergies/COPD became worse) 1 hour out - 1 oz Super Wind This mare got pnuemonia the last summer before she was retired (retired due to soundness) and she was treated at the state get school. When I was discussing this regimen with them they told me that they'd done testing on oral Lasix and found it to not be effective. However, the testing they'd done was with Lasix that was formulated to be given orally. My vet had prescribed IV Lasix to be given orally. I trust that my vet has seen effectiveness in dosing this way or he wouldn't have suggested it.
I've used to pills and didn't feel as though they were effective on the horse I tried them with. When you gave the injectible form orally, did you feel as though it had the same effect as IV or IM? Did your mare still urinate excessively as they do with lasix?
This is my only experience with using Lasix, and I never gave it any other way than orally, so I can't say if the results are the same as you would get giving it IM or IV. But I do feel like she urinated excessively. |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| Good to know..... thank you :) I hadn't spoken to anyone that had given the injectible orally. |
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Veteran
Posts: 180
| I always dose orally. 5 cc 4 hours out. Works great. Never had a problem. I always give a couple treats to make up for the nasty taste. |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| gypsykalgirl - 2016-05-21 9:32 PM I always dose orally. 5 cc 4 hours out. Works great. Never had a problem. I always give a couple treats to make up for the nasty taste.
And it's worked well for your horse as well? They still urinate and all so you know it's doing it's job? |
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 I keep my butt inside
Posts: 3281
Location: Weatherford, Texas | I found a study (I'm a nerd and want studies to back up stuff) a few years ago when I was running a bleeder- a VERY bad bleeder. On a true bleeder (they defined as one that bled enough to impair or cause damage) IV is the only truly effective way. At 3-4 hours out you got something like 90+% effectiveness. IM you needed to essentially double the dose and give twice as much time and still only had 70% range effectiveness. Orally- even double dosing and twice the time was like 20% effectiveness. Basically wasting your time. If you are getting lasix for a bleeder, the only way the study recommended was to give IV. I have had a ton of vets back that up and explain that any is better than none if the person is freaking over hitting a vein- but for your horse- you should IV it. |
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 Expert
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Location: Texas | Hey Cooper08, Did you use Ventipulmin on your bleeder? Got any studies on it? (Not trying to steal this thread, see my comment on the Ventipulmin and OxyO2 post.) |
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I keep my butt inside
Posts: 3281
Location: Weatherford, Texas | When it was hot and humid I would give her Ventipulmin too.....I will run over to that post and read up. |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| cooper08 - 2016-05-23 7:12 AM I found a study (I'm a nerd and want studies to back up stuff) a few years ago when I was running a bleeder- a VERY bad bleeder. On a true bleeder (they defined as one that bled enough to impair or cause damage) IV is the only truly effective way. At 3-4 hours out you got something like 90+% effectiveness. IM you needed to essentially double the dose and give twice as much time and still only had 70% range effectiveness. Orally- even double dosing and twice the time was like 20% effectiveness. Basically wasting your time. If you are getting lasix for a bleeder, the only way the study recommended was to give IV. I have had a ton of vets back that up and explain that any is better than none if the person is freaking over hitting a vein- but for your horse- you should IV it.
I've had quite a few bleeders, one of them quite severe, and have always given lasix IV (along with other things to maintain electrolyte levels, etc.). Was just wondering if the giving it orally was deemed effective out of curiousity.
Thanks for the info!
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Expert
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Location: Cocoa, Florida | gypsykalgirl - 2016-05-21 11:32 PM
I always dose orally. 5 cc 4 hours out. Works great. Never had a problem. I always give a couple treats to make up for the nasty taste.
I dosed her orally 3 hours out this weekend, no cough or bleed, I did let her sip a little water after and gave her a treat to help with taste.
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Expert
Posts: 1612
Location: Cocoa, Florida | The reason I made his thread is because you cannot give my mare a shot, she is thin skinned and absolutely hates shots, I'm done torturing her so I started it orally, just a higher dose and longer out and so far it has seemed to work. She will bleed out bad, both nostrils when she bleeds, she coughs terribly too, the last few times I did it orally I've had no cough or bleeds..... |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| cooper08 - 2016-05-23 9:12 AM
I found a study (I'm a nerd and want studies to back up stuff) a few years ago when I was running a bleeder- a VERY bad bleeder. On a true bleeder (they defined as one that bled enough to impair or cause damage) IV is the only truly effective way. At 3-4 hours out you got something like 90+% effectiveness. IM you needed to essentially double the dose and give twice as much time and still only had 70% range effectiveness. Orally- even double dosing and twice the time was like 20% effectiveness. Basically wasting your time. If you are getting lasix for a bleeder, the only way the study recommended was to give IV. I have had a ton of vets back that up and explain that any is better than none if the person is freaking over hitting a vein- but for your horse- you should IV it.
Do you know if the Lasix used in the study for oral dosing was the IV med or the one formulated to be given orally? The one that was formulated to be given orally is the one that the state vet school said was shown to not be effective. The vet that told me to dose orally never even suggested giving it IV. I'm hoping that I never have another bleeder, but just in case I do I'm interested to know about the study. I don't mind giving shots IV, but with something like Lasix that is given for each run I'd rather give it orally if possible. |
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Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| RnRJack - 2016-05-23 9:59 PM
gypsykalgirl - 2016-05-21 11:32 PM
I always dose orally. 5 cc 4 hours out. Works great. Never had a problem. I always give a couple treats to make up for the nasty taste.
I dosed her orally 3 hours out this weekend, no cough or bleed, I did let her sip a little water after and gave her a treat to help with taste.
Glad to hear that it worked for your mare! |
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Did I miss the party?
Posts: 3864
| RnRJack - 2016-05-23 8:02 PM The reason I made his thread is because you cannot give my mare a shot, she is thin skinned and absolutely hates shots, I'm done torturing her so I started it orally, just a higher dose and longer out and so far it has seemed to work. She will bleed out bad, both nostrils when she bleeds, she coughs terribly too, the last few times I did it orally I've had no cough or bleeds.....
I can tell you that the worst bleeder I had (would bleed through 5 cc's until I did a BAL and learned to manage her properly) could be held on giving it IM as long as I gave it 3-4 hours out, which would not coincide with the study of only being 70% effective IM. I just preferred IV so I could give it closer to running.
Point being, maybe the study had different parameters and every horse is different. Glad orally is working for you. I hope it works for others as well. I know quite a few people who hesitate on giving shots, or don't know how to IV. |
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