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 BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
  
Location: Bastrop, Texas | I thought this was interesting:
http://www.doctorramey.com/certified-experts/ | |
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  Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
 
Location: Displaced Iowegian | LOL....that was FUNNY and SO TRUE !!!!!  | |
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| When I was a young boy, my granddad gave me his definition of an EXPERT
and it has stuck with me all my life ..
EX ... is a has-been
SPURT ... is a drip under pressure
NUFF SAID ..
Edited by BARRELHORSE USA 2016-05-30 11:03 PM
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Wow! That guy has some serious issues- was he drinking when he wrote that? Lol- here is an excerpt from what he said, The problem is that so much of what passes for “education” and “certification” is really just the unsupervised distribution of various ideas and theories that have little or no basis in reality, science, or good medicine. They might be full of good intentions, but, as the old line goes, that’s also the paving material for the road to hell.
To me, all of these “certified experts” are a huge problem, because they’re mostly out their confusing people, and getting them to waste time and money on unproven and/or unneeded treatments. Unless, of course, you are certified by the Veterinary Voodoo Society (I am proud to say that I am)." Holy cow! I wonder if he'd secretly like to become a ceritifed equine massage therapist so he can work his arse off everyday until he has sweat running out of his eyeballs for an hour or more at a time working painful knots out of the tissue (that he completely ignored) when he stuck them with his $400 cortisone injection? I am very proud to say that I am a Certified Equine Massage Therapist and a Masterson Method Practitoner. I personally work with some very excellent vets who understand what I do and even value it- they know that each of us have limitations in what we specialize in, but there is a need for both. I wonder if he feels the same way about Certified Farriers as well- I guess he'd rather have an uncertified farrier shoe his horses, or maybe he thinks shoeing horses is all quackery? Wow- I'm sorry, I don't very often call anybody an idiot- but that guy definitely fits the description- Yeeks-
ETA- I just looked at his website and verified that he is indeed an idiot- he condems ALL alternative medicine; including acupuncture, homeopathy, chiropractic, herbal and vitamin supplements and magnets. He has articles that he wrote on his page that speak of each of these modalities in the same condescending tone that he uses in the article Bear posted. Wow- I did not know there were still vets out there who could make a living with such a narrow minded perspective.
Edited by trickster j 2016-05-30 11:38 PM
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 Keeper of the King Snake
Posts: 7616
Location: Dubach, LA | You said it Trickster. He is a talented writer. He has a large following, so I wish he'd take the time to research the modalities he writes about. | |
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Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | Basically, I think his point has been missed.......quote from his article... for an organization or individual to “certify” that you know WHAT THEY HAVE TAUGHT YOU. It’s a certificate of completion, as it were. And there’s the rub – WHO SAYS THAT WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT HAS ANY MEANING??????"
You could be a certified dishwasher just because some organization or multi-level marketing team have taught you how to wash dishes.....Is it meaningful or of use?
Edited by NJJ 2016-05-31 10:28 AM
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 Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | NJJ - 2016-05-31 10:27 AM
Basically, I think his point has been missed.......quote from his article... for an organization or individual to “certify” that you know WHAT THEY HAVE TAUGHT YOU. It’s a certificate of completion, as it were. And there’s the rub – WHO SAYS THAT WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT HAS ANY MEANING??????"
You could be a certified dishwasher just because some organization or multi-level marketing team have taught you how to wash dishes.....Is it meaningful or of use?
Does my mom count?? She taught me to wash dishes.... very well!!!  | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"? | |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| NJJ - 2016-05-31 8:27 AM Basically, I think his point has been missed.......quote from his article... for an organization or individual to “certify” that you know WHAT THEY HAVE TAUGHT YOU. It’s a certificate of completion, as it were. And there’s the rub – WHO SAYS THAT WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT HAS ANY MEANING??????"
You could be a certified dishwasher just because some organization or multi-level marketing team have taught you how to wash dishes.....Is it meaningful or of use?
No, I got his point- he was referring to certified equine bodyworkers- that point was pretty clear.
ETA: A certificate is something a person earns when they have met the standards of the certifying organizaton- if the organization is reputable the certificate is of value, if it is not, than it isn't. The consumer just needs to do some homework and look into the certiying agency and decide for themselves if the qualifications are what they have a need for. Does that make sense?
Edited by trickster j 2016-05-31 12:43 PM
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Bear - 2016-05-31 11:44 AM
How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Step one: Spend no less than 10 years smoking Herb.... (get back to me when that's done) | |
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Too busy outside!
Posts: 5417
| komet. - 2016-05-31 10:46 AM Bear - 2016-05-31 11:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"? Step one: Spend no less than 10 years smoking Herb.... (get back to me when that's done )
Lol Komet- don't you know that the voice of reason is the number one thread killer around here?? I wish you would have let this go on a bit longer before you made everyone just slink away........  | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | trickster j - 2016-05-31 1:26 PM
komet. - 2016-05-31 10:46 AM Bear - 2016-05-31 11:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"? Step one: Spend no less than 10 years smoking Herb.... (get back to me when that's done )
Well... I know how well it pays... I used to make a living digging Echinacea (coneflower) , Goldenseal and Ginsing... as well as a .... ummm... few other things... Morels are not the only mushrooms we harvested... I used to live in Mark Twain National Forest... Every spring it was a race between me and the thieving deer to see who got to the mushrooms first!!  | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | trickster j - 2016-05-31 12:40 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault.
The problem, as I see it, is people are trying to apply standards that attempt to imply a certain level of excellence and a sound fund of scientific knowledge, to an industry that is largely devoid of those principles. I'm speaking of naturopathic and alternative remedies.
Now, having said that, I emphasize the qualifier "largely", because there are several exceptions. The key thing in traditional medicine is to remain open to considering naturopathic/alternative remedies and therapies, without sacrificing sound, objective scientific principles and.....standards. We call this "integrative" medicine. In medicine, a student typically must graduate from college and take a standardized exam prior to consideration for acceptance into medical school. He/she must have letters of recommendation, and a high GPA before being considered for an interview. Once accepted, a student must pass all courses/rotations before graduation, 4 years later. Before being allowed to independently practice medicine, a doctor must pass 3 sets of national examinations over the course of his/her education and training. Then we have 3-6 years of residency training where you basically have no life outside of a hospital, and you learn the meaning of sleep deprivation. On the completion of residency, there is a final process of board certification. That involves a written exam, followed by an oral exam, IF you have passed the written exam. There now is a process of "recertification" that requires you to pass another exam, usually every 10 years. In addition to all of this, each state has various requirements for so many hours of continuing medical education. Some additional requirements exist in certain states, like Texas, where you have to take a course in medical jurisprudence.
To become "certified" in things like vibrating plates, herbs, lasers, and magnets doesn't mean anything to me. It might mean you have to pass a rigorous training followed by some standard exam, or it might mean the entrepreneur who taught you how to use a device for a fee or "tuition" simply issued a certificate, on the completion of a course.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 851
Location: West Texas | I don't much think a vet certification is worth a darn either. There are a lot of vets that aren't very good. Experience goes a long way. No vet can be good at everything either. Certain vets are better at certain things, much of it to do with aptitude and experience. I wouldn't give a first year vet the time of day with my horse. Most have no idea how little they know. The same is true with most other things. I know non vet experts that are great at what they do, because they are focused on learning one thing and have gained the experience in doing it to be good at it. I have devoted a lot of time to equine nutrition, and I don't take much stock in a PhD in Equine Nutrition....they are the ones bringing us the junk food for horses. Many of the best dentist are non vets. Most vets are terrible dentist, and even worse nutritionist. Finally, Chiropractic services are best performed by a chiropractor. They do it for a living and experience and talent is what makes them good, not a vet degree. Seriously, a certification means little to me in any field. Mastery is dependent on skill and experience, no certification or bona fide degree alone provides this to you. It is just a starting place and in some cases is not necessary at all.
Edited by Tdove 2016-05-31 3:02 PM
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Bear - 2016-05-31 2:48 PM
trickster j - 2016-05-31 12:40 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault.
The problem, as I see it, is people are trying to apply standards that attempt to imply a certain level of excellence and a sound fund of scientific knowledge, to an industry that is largely devoid of those principles. I'm speaking of naturopathic and alternative remedies.
Now, having said that, I emphasize the qualifier "largely", because there are several exceptions. The key thing in traditional medicine is to remain open to considering naturopathic/alternative remedies and therapies, without sacrificing sound, objective scientific principles and.....standards. We call this "integrative" medicine. In medicine, a student typically must graduate from college and take a standardized exam prior to consideration for acceptance into medical school. He/she must have letters of recommendation, and a high GPA before being considered for an interview. Once accepted, a student must pass all courses/rotations before graduation, 4 years later. Before being allowed to independently practice medicine, a doctor must pass 3 sets of national examinations over the course of his/her education and training. Then we have 3-6 years of residency training where you basically have no life outside of a hospital, and you learn the meaning of sleep deprivation. On the completion of residency, there is a final process of board certification. That involves a written exam, followed by an oral exam, IF you have passed the written exam. There now is a process of "recertification" that requires you to pass another exam, usually every 10 years. In addition to all of this, each state has various requirements for so many hours of continuing medical education. Some additional requirements exist in certain states, like Texas, where you have to take a course in medical jurisprudence.
To become "certified" in things like vibrating plates, herbs, lasers, and magnets doesn't mean anything to me. It might mean you have to pass a rigorous training followed by some standard exam, or it might mean the entrepreneur who taught you how to use a device for a fee or "tuition" simply issued a certificate, on the completion of a course.
Your about to step on some toes here....My mother's dad was a Naprapath..Both her parents were licensed but only her dad practiced. In the mid 1950 Grandma was diagnosed with cancer. The best hospitals in the city of Chicago said there was no hope. Grandpa Nelson demanded they send her home with him. He treated her with Naprapathy and she outlived in him into the 90s. What you want is a gas chromatopher so you can be sure of what you are selling.
Edited by komet. 2016-05-31 3:21 PM
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | komet. - 2016-05-31 3:10 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 2:48 PM
trickster j - 2016-05-31 12:40 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault.
The problem, as I see it, is people are trying to apply standards that attempt to imply a certain level of excellence and a sound fund of scientific knowledge, to an industry that is largely devoid of those principles. I'm speaking of naturopathic and alternative remedies.
Now, having said that, I emphasize the qualifier "largely", because there are several exceptions. The key thing in traditional medicine is to remain open to considering naturopathic/alternative remedies and therapies, without sacrificing sound, objective scientific principles and.....standards. We call this "integrative" medicine. In medicine, a student typically must graduate from college and take a standardized exam prior to consideration for acceptance into medical school. He/she must have letters of recommendation, and a high GPA before being considered for an interview. Once accepted, a student must pass all courses/rotations before graduation, 4 years later. Before being allowed to independently practice medicine, a doctor must pass 3 sets of national examinations over the course of his/her education and training. Then we have 3-6 years of residency training where you basically have no life outside of a hospital, and you learn the meaning of sleep deprivation. On the completion of residency, there is a final process of board certification. That involves a written exam, followed by an oral exam, IF you have passed the written exam. There now is a process of "recertification" that requires you to pass another exam, usually every 10 years. In addition to all of this, each state has various requirements for so many hours of continuing medical education. Some additional requirements exist in certain states, like Texas, where you have to take a course in medical jurisprudence.
To become "certified" in things like vibrating plates, herbs, lasers, and magnets doesn't mean anything to me. It might mean you have to pass a rigorous training followed by some standard exam, or it might mean the entrepreneur who taught you how to use a device for a fee or "tuition" simply issued a certificate, on the completion of a course.
Your about to step on some toes here....My mother's dad was a Naprapath..Both her parents were licensed but only her dad practiced. In the mid 1950 Grandma was diagnosed with cancer. The best hospitals in the city of Chicago said there was no hope. Grandpa Nelson demanded they send her home with him. He treated her with Naprapathy and she outlived in him into the 90s. What you want is a gas chromatopher so you can be sure of what you are selling.
Chiropractic medicine did not cure her cancer, Komet. Just because she lived longer than expected and she happened to receive chiropractic care doesn't mean the chiropractic medicine did anything for her cancer. This is the kind of reasoning that naturopaths depend on. Chiropractic medicine does not cure cancer. It might make some peop,e feel better, but it has never cured cancer, nor has it extended life in cancer patients. | |
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Expert
Posts: 4121
Location: SE Louisiana | Bear - 2016-05-31 3:39 PM
komet. - 2016-05-31 3:10 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 2:48 PM
trickster j - 2016-05-31 12:40 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault.
The problem, as I see it, is people are trying to apply standards that attempt to imply a certain level of excellence and a sound fund of scientific knowledge, to an industry that is largely devoid of those principles. I'm speaking of naturopathic and alternative remedies.
Now, having said that, I emphasize the qualifier "largely", because there are several exceptions. The key thing in traditional medicine is to remain open to considering naturopathic/alternative remedies and therapies, without sacrificing sound, objective scientific principles and.....standards. We call this "integrative" medicine. In medicine, a student typically must graduate from college and take a standardized exam prior to consideration for acceptance into medical school. He/she must have letters of recommendation, and a high GPA before being considered for an interview. Once accepted, a student must pass all courses/rotations before graduation, 4 years later. Before being allowed to independently practice medicine, a doctor must pass 3 sets of national examinations over the course of his/her education and training. Then we have 3-6 years of residency training where you basically have no life outside of a hospital, and you learn the meaning of sleep deprivation. On the completion of residency, there is a final process of board certification. That involves a written exam, followed by an oral exam, IF you have passed the written exam. There now is a process of "recertification" that requires you to pass another exam, usually every 10 years. In addition to all of this, each state has various requirements for so many hours of continuing medical education. Some additional requirements exist in certain states, like Texas, where you have to take a course in medical jurisprudence.
To become "certified" in things like vibrating plates, herbs, lasers, and magnets doesn't mean anything to me. It might mean you have to pass a rigorous training followed by some standard exam, or it might mean the entrepreneur who taught you how to use a device for a fee or "tuition" simply issued a certificate, on the completion of a course.
Your about to step on some toes here....My mother's dad was a Naprapath..Both her parents were licensed but only her dad practiced. In the mid 1950 Grandma was diagnosed with cancer. The best hospitals in the city of Chicago said there was no hope. Grandpa Nelson demanded they send her home with him. He treated her with Naprapathy and she outlived in him into the 90s. What you want is a gas chromatopher so you can be sure of what you are selling.
Chiropractic medicine did not cure her cancer, Komet. Just because she lived longer than expected and she happened to receive chiropractic care doesn't mean the chiropractic medicine did anything for her cancer. This is the kind of reasoning that naturopaths depend on. Chiropractic medicine does not cure cancer. It might make some peop,e feel better, but it has never cured cancer, nor has it extended life in cancer patients.
I respectively disagree sir... If you can stop the pain, you can allow the body to focus on other problems and heal itself..... I did not say he was a Chiropractor... They employ drugs. Naprapathy does not. But he included something I don 't know if others do. Because I never attended another one....
People here... SOME people here, grew up with true story-tellers.... Rule number one for a good storyteller is they have to have a relaxing voice.... Anyone that has ever watched Christmas shows like 'Frosty The Snowman' or 'Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer' know the voice of a man named Burl Ives....
You, Scott, coming from where you do, know another relaxing voice... Garrison Keillor and the news from Lake Wobegon
My grandfather is the only other person I ever met that had a voice like this. After he got done with the treatment, he would sit down and start to talk about whatever was on his mind.... Later.. I would wake up in the room alone.... I would be so relaxed after the treatment, he could talk me to sleep....
So... Once again we must agree to disagree..... Stopping the pain allows the body to focus on what is CAUSING the pain... | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| Tdove - 2016-05-31 2:59 PM
I don't much think a vet certification is worth a darn either. There are a lot of vets that aren't very good. Experience goes a long way. No vet can be good at everything either. Certain vets are better at certain things, much of it to do with aptitude and experience. I wouldn't give a first year vet the time of day with my horse. Most have no idea how little they know. The same is true with most other things. I know non vet experts that are great at what they do, because they are focused on learning one thing and have gained the experience in doing it to be good at it. I have devoted a lot of time to equine nutrition, and I don't take much stock in a PhD in Equine Nutrition....they are the ones bringing us the junk food for horses. Many of the best dentist are non vets. Most vets are terrible dentist, and even worse nutritionist. Finally, Chiropractic services are best performed by a chiropractor. They do it for a living and experience and talent is what makes them good, not a vet degree. Seriously, a certification means little to me in any field. Mastery is dependent on skill and experience, no certification or bona fide degree alone provides this to you. It is just a starting place and in some cases is not necessary at all.
Amen to this!!!  | |
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BHW Resident Surgeon
Posts: 25351
Location: Bastrop, Texas | komet. - 2016-05-31 4:21 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 3:39 PM
komet. - 2016-05-31 3:10 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 2:48 PM
trickster j - 2016-05-31 12:40 PM
Bear - 2016-05-31 9:44 AM How can I become a certified herbalist? What's the process? What guarantee do I have, as a prospective consumer of herbs, that the seller of these products is an "expert"?
Basically Bear, it's a buyer beware market- you would actually have to put some effort into educating yourself first in order to know if you are going to get a qualified expert or a liar. If you choose to hire a certifed expert herbalist who doesn't know bout herbal remedies that would be your own fault.
The problem, as I see it, is people are trying to apply standards that attempt to imply a certain level of excellence and a sound fund of scientific knowledge, to an industry that is largely devoid of those principles. I'm speaking of naturopathic and alternative remedies.
Now, having said that, I emphasize the qualifier "largely", because there are several exceptions. The key thing in traditional medicine is to remain open to considering naturopathic/alternative remedies and therapies, without sacrificing sound, objective scientific principles and.....standards. We call this "integrative" medicine. In medicine, a student typically must graduate from college and take a standardized exam prior to consideration for acceptance into medical school. He/she must have letters of recommendation, and a high GPA before being considered for an interview. Once accepted, a student must pass all courses/rotations before graduation, 4 years later. Before being allowed to independently practice medicine, a doctor must pass 3 sets of national examinations over the course of his/her education and training. Then we have 3-6 years of residency training where you basically have no life outside of a hospital, and you learn the meaning of sleep deprivation. On the completion of residency, there is a final process of board certification. That involves a written exam, followed by an oral exam, IF you have passed the written exam. There now is a process of "recertification" that requires you to pass another exam, usually every 10 years. In addition to all of this, each state has various requirements for so many hours of continuing medical education. Some additional requirements exist in certain states, like Texas, where you have to take a course in medical jurisprudence.
To become "certified" in things like vibrating plates, herbs, lasers, and magnets doesn't mean anything to me. It might mean you have to pass a rigorous training followed by some standard exam, or it might mean the entrepreneur who taught you how to use a device for a fee or "tuition" simply issued a certificate, on the completion of a course.
Your about to step on some toes here....My mother's dad was a Naprapath..Both her parents were licensed but only her dad practiced. In the mid 1950 Grandma was diagnosed with cancer. The best hospitals in the city of Chicago said there was no hope. Grandpa Nelson demanded they send her home with him. He treated her with Naprapathy and she outlived in him into the 90s. What you want is a gas chromatopher so you can be sure of what you are selling.
Chiropractic medicine did not cure her cancer, Komet. Just because she lived longer than expected and she happened to receive chiropractic care doesn't mean the chiropractic medicine did anything for her cancer. This is the kind of reasoning that naturopaths depend on. Chiropractic medicine does not cure cancer. It might make some peop,e feel better, but it has never cured cancer, nor has it extended life in cancer patients.
I respectively disagree sir... If you can stop the pain, you can allow the body to focus on other problems and heal itself..... I did not say he was a Chiropractor... They employ drugs. Naprapathy does not. But he included something I don 't know if others do. Because I never attended another one....
People here... SOME people here, grew up with true story-tellers.... Rule number one for a good storyteller is they have to have a relaxing voice.... Anyone that has ever watched Christmas shows like 'Frosty The Snowman' or 'Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer' know the voice of a man named Burl Ives....
You, Scott, coming from where you do, know another relaxing voice... Garrison Keillor and the news from Lake Wobegon
My grandfather is the only other person I ever met that had a voice like this. After he got done with the treatment, he would sit down and start to talk about whatever was on his mind.... Later.. I would wake up in the room alone.... I would be so relaxed after the treatment, he could talk me to sleep....
So... Once again we must agree to disagree..... Stopping the pain allows the body to focus on what is CAUSING the pain...
Oh how I honestly wish this were true.
I've seen some miracles, but I can't say I can explain them. That would be dishonest on my part, and arrogant. If you choose to believe that a soothing voice saved someone from cancer, good for you. | |
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