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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test (for gene testing of P2) as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate like stated in other papers by the researchers themselves.
I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding.
There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon when legality and research allow. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up.
Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 test they are working on as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ;) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.
I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too. 
Here is the link to purchase the test
http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
ETA: Spelling and clarification
Edited by cheeka77 2016-07-30 12:43 AM
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Expert
Posts: 4766
  
Location: Bandera, TX | Thank you, Thank you, Thanks to you!
I've had one of those mare you speak of. She was tested for PSSM1, nothing. Can't wait to send in the hair sample for the new test. I've bred this mare as she had a beautiful baby two years ago but that filly is high strung to the hilt. I'm going to test her as well. Your so right we have a responsibility to be breeding animals that can perform without distress and in the meat industry we breed animals for certian genomic conditions to better our food supply. I'm on board for responsibility. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| uno-dos-tres! - 2016-07-27 7:38 AM Thank you, Thank you, Thanks to you!
I've had one of those mare you speak of. She was tested for PSSM1, nothing. Can't wait to send in the hair sample for the new test. I've bred this mare as she had a beautiful baby two years ago but that filly is high strung to the hilt. I'm going to test her as well. Your so right we have a responsibility to be breeding animals that can perform without distress and in the meat industry we breed animals for certian genomic conditions to better our food supply. I'm on board for responsibility.
Good luck!! For a short time the test is $99 and then will go up to $135 so I wanted to get the word out :) My mare is actually being tested for P3 as well in the experimental study because horses can be positive for type 1, 2, and 3! So great of you that you recognized the symptoms or at least are alert to it! :) | |
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 Expert
Posts: 5290
| And the great news is, it's treated with diet only. There are no drug therapies. So , if you suspect your horse has it, like I did with mine, I started feeding a PSSM diet 3 months ago and have seen tremendous results with it. | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM
The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate. I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding. There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up. Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.  I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too. Here is the link to purchase the test
 http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate? | |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| From their site:" Has Developed a Test for the Predisposition to PSSM2This is a newly-developed experimental test that has not yet been validated in a large unselected sample. Our results have not yet been published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.We believe that the P2 variant identified in this test is a risk factor for PSSM2, but it is not fully penetrant (some horses carrying the variant do not develop PSSM2).There are other genetic variants that predispose to PSSM2 and related adult-onset myopathies. We do not yet have tests for these variants."
So we should pay $99 for a test that hasn't been validated and isn't published in a peer reviewed journal? For a gene they think predisposes a horse to the disease? Not a gene that indicates the horse HAS the disease, a gene that indicates might be predisposed?!?
Sounds like a grossly premature release of a test to me. Yes it tells you the horse has a gene, no it doesn't tell you anything about what the existence of that gene means.
Edited by kuhlmann 2016-07-27 12:15 PM
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 You get what you give
Posts: 13030
Location: Texas | Let me just say, that the biggest thing I have learned in veterinary medicine, is that there are no absolutes. There is not a single perfect test in veterinary medicine. Not one. So, I'm not going to get excited because a biopsy test isn't 100%, because nothing is. I still would trust a muscle biopsy because what they do is turn that into samples on a slide and actually see the abnormalities in muscle.
And I will tell you, no matter what you've been told, there is always a chance that a test gives a false answer, even this new hair test. No test is perfect. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| casualdust07 - 2016-07-27 12:42 PM
Let me just say, that the biggest thing I have learned in veterinary medicine, is that there are no absolutes. There is not a single perfect test in veterinary medicine. Not one. So, I'm not going to get excited because a biopsy test isn't 100%, because nothing is. I still would trust a muscle biopsy because what they do is turn that into samples on a slide and actually see the abnormalities in muscle.
And I will tell you, no matter what you've been told, there is always a chance that a test gives a false answer, even this new hair test. No test is perfect.
So true! | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM
The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate. I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding. There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up. Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.  I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too. Here is the link to purchase the test
 http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate?
If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| I COMPLETELY understand where you guys are coming from, I asked Paul and he said due to scientific reasons and whatnot they can't just come out and say here you go your horse is going to become symptomatic and this is 100% accurate like anything else but they HAVE identified the gene which no one has done before. For those who struggled with finding answers like I did, this test is a life saver. Some horses, like any genetic disease don't show symptoms ever so no, they can't say your horse will show signs. They also for legal reasons can't release all of their findings or the name of the gene or anything along those lines until they are published but they are well on their way. I urge any skeptics or people with questions to join the FB page, there are plenty of people way better at science and explaining on there than I am! And they have also found horses that the muscle bioposy was wrong on.
Also, why do an invasive procedure in the first place (assuming you are thinking the horse has PSSM type 2 and not just bioposying for fun) when there's not a cheaper hair test? I'm not making money off this or getting anything in return, just sharing knowledge I've learned as the Internet is not up to date with all the findings recently including the high protein diet and whatnot :) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| kuhlmann - 2016-07-27 12:14 PM From their site:" Has Developed a Test for the Predisposition to PSSM2This is a newly-developed experimental test that has not yet been validated in a large unselected sample. Our results have not yet been published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.We believe that the P2 variant identified in this test is a risk factor for PSSM2, but it is not fully penetrant (some horses carrying the variant do not develop PSSM2).There are other genetic variants that predispose to PSSM2 and related adult-onset myopathies. We do not yet have tests for these variants."
So we should pay $99 for a test that hasn't been validated and isn't published in a peer reviewed journal? For a gene they think predisposes a horse to the disease? Not a gene that indicates the horse HAS the disease, a gene that indicates might be predisposed?!?
Sounds like a grossly premature release of a test to me. Yes it tells you the horse has a gene, no it doesn't tell you anything about what the existence of that gene means.
I replayed further down but when asked, this was their replies on why they can't release everything yet.
1. "We are constrained by legal and business considerations from fully disclosing the science behind the test to third parties. First, let's talk about our internal validation. The reason the test has been delayed for six months is that one of the members of our science team is a hard skeptic. That's actually an asset, to have a person like that on the science team."
2. "Our first kind of validation, when we had very few horses tested, was an evolutionary comparison of the affected protein across species. The affected protein is part of a basic cellular process common to vertebrates. We have been able to identify the orthologous protein all the way out to birds. This covers 300 million years since the last common ancestor. The P2 variant is a nonconservative amino acid substitution, the substitution of a chemically dissimilar amino acid for the normal one. Although many other positions in the protein vary across evolution, the P2 substitution is not seen in any other species. This does not mean that the mutation has never occurred, it means that every time that it has happened, it has been cleansed from populations by natural selection. This has occurred many times over 300 million years."
3. "A third kind of validation is the wealth of data that we have received from horse owners in our study. I was surprised when we found P2/P2 horses. I was not surprised to find that the age of onset is earlier. I was astonished to see the videos. If we look at a video of a three year old horse at canter, we almost don't have to do the test, we can pick it out from the gait. Then there were the photos, the divots and ripples in muscle. A member of our science team collected blood at a site where there were many Quarter Horses. When I told him about divots, he said that's strange, that ranch I went to, I asked the owner about these, and she said it was probably from being kicked or something. Multiple horses had divots. The herd is full of P2. This is why I say that the P2 test is a product of the horse community, we have learned so much from people here."
4. The test will give a definite genotype: n/n, n/P2, or P2/P2. Some n/P2 horses will develop late-onset PSSM2; some will not develop PSSM2 even through the second decade. As far as we can tell, all P2/P2 horses will develop early-onset PSSM2. Remember that the disease state is distinct from the genotype. There are other variants that cause PSSM2 as well. | |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 12:46 PM
classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM
cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM
The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate. I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding. There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up. Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.  I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too. Here is the link to purchase the test
 http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php
Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate?
If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say ) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though
Thanks for your reply. However, I'm requesting the researched, published work validating your assertion that muscle biopsies are not accurate. All you have presented is a place I could go and read anectdotes. I have read people's posts there, and I'm sure a few people have a good idea, but a lot of the discussion I've seen there seems to be based on assumptions and, yes, anecdotes.
Now, I'm all for learning about voodoo methods and using them, but when someone presents a "scientific" something or other and charges for it as "researched", they better have the literature.
The other day, I read about a genetic test that can help you figure out how to work out properly to reach a mysterious "fitness level". It was also $99. Ha.
This test looks very shady, due to the fact that it hasn't been published. I think they're needing funding and using these "tests" to get their money, since anything they have found is so unsubstantiated that they can't get a grant to keep going.
I would also be very cautious when singing around that a certain stallion or bloodline has something wrong with it. Your position would probably be very indefensible in a court of law if the owners felt like following up, due to the lack of research.
I'm sure that long time researchers like Dr Valberg would love to hear that her published, peer reviewed work with biopsy data isn't accurate. As far as invasive, I had mine done and it was literally three stitches and some silver spray. Not invasive and easily healed.
When it's published, peer reviewed, and legitimate, I'd love to look at it again. I'm glad people are looking further into it, but I don't think it's time to get on the train as customers just yet. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 1:58 PM cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 12:46 PM classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate.
I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding.
There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up.
Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.
I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too.
Here is the link to purchase the test
http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate? If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say ) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though Thanks for your reply. However, I'm requesting the researched, published work validating your assertion that muscle biopsies are not accurate. All you have presented is a place I could go and read anectdotes. I have read people's posts there, and I'm sure a few people have a good idea, but a lot of the discussion I've seen there seems to be based on assumptions and, yes, anecdotes. Now, I'm all for learning about voodoo methods and using them, but when someone presents a "scientific" something or other and charges for it as "researched", they better have the literature. The other day, I read about a genetic test that can help you figure out how to work out properly to reach a mysterious "fitness level". It was also $99. Ha. This test looks very shady, due to the fact that it hasn't been published. I think they're needing funding and using these "tests" to get their money, since anything they have found is so unsubstantiated that they can't get a grant to keep going. I would also be very cautious when singing around that a certain stallion or bloodline has something wrong with it. Your position would probably be very indefensible in a court of law if the owners felt like following up, due to the lack of research. I'm sure that long time researchers like Dr Valberg would love to hear that her published, peer reviewed work with biopsy data isn't accurate. As far as invasive, I had mine done and it was literally three stitches and some silver spray. Not invasive and easily healed. When it's published, peer reviewed, and legitimate, I'd love to look at it again. I'm glad people are looking further into it, but I don't think it's time to get on the train as customers just yet.
And you're entitled to your opinion ;) Like any medical study, this has been going on for a long time and they are waiting to be published, now it's just a waiting game. They LOVE answering questions and have been using Dr. Vallbergs findings in their work. I'm not a scientist but I'm entitled to my opinion that muscle bioposys are not as accurate as they have already found horses that were wrongly diagnosed. Maybe I shouldn't have worded it that way but I strongly believe this research is accurate. Unless you're someone who has dealt with this disease I understand you don't know where I'm coming from.
There is is also a HUGE database like I stated before where horses that are suspects are tracked. I could give a flying %*?!* what breeders think when it comes to me throwing around names (which I didn't on that stud) but it's already well known there are certain lines that go back to suspect lines and have positive horses from the 2 (possibly 3 now) horses that "started" P2. Like I said, plenty of resources on the page and not just things people have said. I have been in contact with the stud owner and if they don't do the right thing and test him (this test or muscle bioposy) then I will make a stink and I don't care who says what.
Also-the test isn't invasive like major surgery but still requires a vet and stitches besides pulling hair so you know what I mean when I say invasive. Medical research becomes outdated with new findings and like I said, Dr V's work and diet is being used but she didn't know the GENE responsible and now they do. Not much else I can say except chat with Paul or Lexi they are both awesome! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3815
Location: The best kept secret in TX | classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 1:58 PM cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 12:46 PM classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 11:52 AM cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 1:15 AM The test for PSSM type 2 is now available to the public and all you have to do is send in hair and $$$! A lot of people have been waiting a long time for this and it's finally here! A group of researchers/geneticists have found the gene responsible for causing PSSM type 2 in horses without having to do a muscle biopsy and this is the only accurate test as muscle biopsies are NOT completely accurate.
I was lucky enough to have my mare tested in the study before it was released and she was positive (n/P2 ) and although it was a kick in the pants at first, it ultimately saved her life and countless others. Keep in mind, she is extremely well bred so please don’t think your horse is exempt because of the pedigree. We believe my mare got hers from the stallion who got it from his sire and that sire got it from Jet Deck (and so on and so forth ). I cannot release my mare’s sires name as of yet because I am waiting for them to do the right thing and test him but if they continue to breed him and not say anything, I will go ahead and post. I have been in contact with some of his offspring and let’s just say there’s a reason he has very few babies in the barrel pen despite his breeding.
There is a website called BRIDGE Equine where you can check your horse for symptoms and search in the database for suspect horses—type 2 positives and suspects will be added soon. There are many symptoms and some horses (like mine ) get symptomatic at 5 and some don’t until they’re 12! Some are even great athletes who win tons of money until they become mysteriously lame or hard to work with or? And no, they don’t all tie up.
Fun facts- there is actually a PSSM type 3 as well AND an AQHA rep confirmed mares will be required to be 5 paneled in the near future before registering foals. My hope is that the type 2 test will one day be added to the 5 panel although I know it will ruffle a lot of feathers. Which is crazy to me but I won’t get into that. ; ) Proper breeding is key, when we get involved in breeding these horses, some of which nature never intended to be together, things like this happen and it is our job to be proactive. Have a crazy/naughty/on off lame mare you think will just be better off as a broodmare, well those breeders will suffer the consequences because they didn’t choose a good specimen.
I hope this gives a little insight and I will be happy to answer any questions as well as a few others on here I’m sure because they are also involved in this study. “Pandora’s box” was opened, but I am optimistic it is for the best and I hope others see it that way too.
Here is the link to purchase the test
http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php Where is the research indicating the muscle biopsy is not accurate? If you're on FB check out the PSSM forum on there, there is lots of good info! They've even found a few horses that tested negative on muscle bioposy and in the test were positive and vice versa! One was a TB who was positive for P2 on muscle bioposy but was in fact P3 instead. Now that they know the gene it's actual science diagnosing, before (well muscle bioposys I should say ) are vets just looking at the staining and diagnosing if the muscle looks "different" than a normal non PSSM horse. The great thing about the test as well is that is tells you how many copies your horse has. Mine is n/P2 meaning she got it from one parent and P2/P2 horses get it from both-no P2/P2 horses have ever made riding horses though Thanks for your reply. However, I'm requesting the researched, published work validating your assertion that muscle biopsies are not accurate. All you have presented is a place I could go and read anectdotes. I have read people's posts there, and I'm sure a few people have a good idea, but a lot of the discussion I've seen there seems to be based on assumptions and, yes, anecdotes. Now, I'm all for learning about voodoo methods and using them, but when someone presents a "scientific" something or other and charges for it as "researched", they better have the literature. The other day, I read about a genetic test that can help you figure out how to work out properly to reach a mysterious "fitness level". It was also $99. Ha. This test looks very shady, due to the fact that it hasn't been published. I think they're needing funding and using these "tests" to get their money, since anything they have found is so unsubstantiated that they can't get a grant to keep going. I would also be very cautious when singing around that a certain stallion or bloodline has something wrong with it. Your position would probably be very indefensible in a court of law if the owners felt like following up, due to the lack of research. I'm sure that long time researchers like Dr Valberg would love to hear that her published, peer reviewed work with biopsy data isn't accurate. As far as invasive, I had mine done and it was literally three stitches and some silver spray. Not invasive and easily healed. When it's published, peer reviewed, and legitimate, I'd love to look at it again. I'm glad people are looking further into it, but I don't think it's time to get on the train as customers just yet.
I believe there is a thread here on BHW posted a while ago that includes links to the scientific research backing up her claim that the muscle biopsy may not be 100%. Just search the Forum for it.  | |
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Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
| Thanks irunonfaith. I'm interested and will check into it later. Someone told me that young horses aren't good biopsy candidates, but that adults are very accurate. Evidently UC David has it on their website, I earmarked it for night time reading.
Cheeka, your assumption I haven't dealt with the disease is just that.
Sorry for asking for references and researched, validated data and peer reviewed interpretations. | |
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Who Wants to Trade?
Posts: 4692
| I'll wait for it to be published and other risk factors to be identified.
There is a lot more outstanding than just "waiting" to be published.
They don't have enough data and the gene is, at this point, an indicator that the horse might be predisposed. Until there is more information around that, I have zero incentive to shell out $99 to test for a gene that may or may not show a predisposition for a disease.
Peer review is there for a reason. I'm a fan. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| classicpotatochip - 2016-07-27 2:30 PM
Thanks irunonfaith. I'm interested and will check into it later. Someone told me that young horses aren't good biopsy candidates, but that adults are very accurate. Evidently UC David has it on their website, I earmarked it for night time reading.
Cheeka, your assumption I haven't dealt with the disease is just that.
Sorry for asking for references and researched, validated data and peer reviewed interpretations.
I'm not trying to be snippy but I'm on my phone and if you want the info, which I'm not sure exactly how in depth you want it, look it up yourself? I told you where to find it and who to ask and another person also gave an example of where to find it. And yes, an assumption because you seem to be dead set against something no one is forcing you to do and it's already saved numerous lives. Science is for questions that's for sure, but also for open minds ;) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 415
| kuhlmann - 2016-07-27 2:37 PM
I'll wait for it to be published and other risk factors to be identified.
There is a lot more outstanding than just "waiting" to be published.
They don't have enough data and the gene is, at this point, an indicator that the horse might be predisposed. Until there is more information around that, I have zero incentive to shell out $99 to test for a gene that may or may not show a predisposition for a disease.
Peer review is there for a reason. I'm a fan.
We have an old retired show mare in our pasture we intended to use as a broodmare. Found out she has HYPP yet is now in her 20's and has never shown any symptoms. By science standards just from that test she would be predispositioned to have it yet she doesn't "have it" but scientifically she still does- change the letters HYPP to PSSM and people suddenly are doubting it. It's still a genetic disease, you breed and there's a chance it passes to offspring. Whether people do the test or not is not hurting me any but at least talk to the scientists and ask questions! :) I'm just here advocating for the horses | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2457
| cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 2:48 PM
kuhlmann - 2016-07-27 2:37 PM
I'll wait for it to be published and other risk factors to be identified.
There is a lot more outstanding than just "waiting" to be published.
They don't have enough data and the gene is, at this point, an indicator that the horse might be predisposed. Until there is more information around that, I have zero incentive to shell out $99 to test for a gene that may or may not show a predisposition for a disease.
Peer review is there for a reason. I'm a fan.
We have an old retired show mare in our pasture we intended to use as a broodmare. Found out she has HYPP yet is now in her 20's and has never shown any symptoms. By science standards just from that test she would be predis positioned to have it yet she doesn't "have it" but scientifically she still does- change the letters HYPP to PSSM and people suddenly are doubting it. It's still a genetic disease, you breed and there's a chance it passes to offspring. Whether people do the test or not is not hurting me any but at least talk to the scientists and ask questions! : ) I'm just here advocating for the horses
OK - I get to jump in here because you don't actually understand the science and are showing it.
HYPP and PSSM are both inherited. There is a difference between a carrier and something that will "have" the disease.
SO - for these diseases, there are two codons that work together, ok? Without describing recessive traits and direct heredity, stick with me for a momentary lesson:
n/n = the animal is not a carrier, and will not have the disease
n/+ = they will be a carrier and if bred to another carrier there is a chance (punnet squares and genetics predicting the heredity) that the offspring will not only be a carrier but also have the disease: This animal may or may not exhibit the disease depending on other factors.
+/+ = the animal is not only a carrier but will have the disease and will pass the disease heredity to their offspring.
SO, yes, an animal could be carrier and never have symptoms. They can be a carrier and have symptoms too. Does this make sense?
The science that you quoted above ( a couple of posts up there) is not totally accurate and doesn't make a ton of sense to me ... I'd love to sit down with this guy and talk proteins, sequencing, and genetic heredity. I'd also love to pick his brain as to why this science isn't published ... as Kuhlmann pointed out, there are reasons and I too support Peer review.
ETA- spelling
Edited by lindseylou2290 2016-07-27 3:36 PM
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | lindseylou2290 - 2016-07-27 4:33 PM cheeka77 - 2016-07-27 2:48 PM kuhlmann - 2016-07-27 2:37 PM I'll wait for it to be published and other risk factors to be identified.
There is a lot more outstanding than just "waiting" to be published.
They don't have enough data and the gene is, at this point, an indicator that the horse might be predisposed. Until there is more information around that, I have zero incentive to shell out $99 to test for a gene that may or may not show a predisposition for a disease.
Peer review is there for a reason. I'm a fan. We have an old retired show mare in our pasture we intended to use as a broodmare. Found out she has HYPP yet is now in her 20's and has never shown any symptoms. By science standards just from that test she would be predis positioned to have it yet she doesn't "have it" but scientifically she still does- change the letters HYPP to PSSM and people suddenly are doubting it. It's still a genetic disease, you breed and there's a chance it passes to offspring. Whether people do the test or not is not hurting me any but at least talk to the scientists and ask questions! : ) I'm just here advocating for the horses OK - I get to jump in here because you don't actually understand the science and are showing it. HYPP and PSSM are both inherited. There is a difference between a carrier and something that will "have" the disease. SO - for these diseases, there are two codons that work together, ok? Without describing recessive traits and direct heredity, stick with me for a momentary lesson: n/n = the animal is not a carrier, and will not have the disease n/+ = they will be a carrier and if bred to another carrier there is a chance (punnet squares and genetics predicting the heredity ) that the offspring will not only be a carrier but also have the disease: This animal may or may not exhibit the disease depending on other factors. +/+ = the animal is not only a carrier but will have the disease and will pass the disease heredity to their offspring. SO, yes, an animal could be carrier and never have symptoms. They can be a carrier and have symptoms too. Does this make sense? The science that you quoted above ( a couple of posts up there ) is not totally accurate and doesn't make a ton of sense to me ... I'd love to sit down with this guy and talk proteins, sequencing, and genetic heredity. I'd also love to pick his brain as to why this science isn't published ... as Kuhlmann pointed out, there are reasons and I too support Peer review. ETA- spelling
I'ma pray for you
You seem like you're wound to tight
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