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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
  
| I have a FWF bred gelding I bought for next to nothing as a 3 yo. At 4, he came on quick, learned quick, performed well all was great. Then I got hurt, he got hurt, and we were off 'til spring of his 5yo year. The next spring started out good, then down hill. X rays revealed KS. Went through 2 sessions of conservative treatment as is the standard before surgery. Had surgery his 6yo year, and we're now 7 and back to work.. And alas, the anxiety and fractious issues return as we put him back to real work.
How many have dealt with something similar? What did you do? I am lucky to live in Texas and have access to some of the best vets and clinics in a small radius than probably anywhere in the country. We're starting to narrow down some issues, but it's getting murky.
If you've done this, when did you say 'forget it'? What all did you try? I've done traditional, holistic, you name it. I've in my 60's and really can't spend years on this. That being said, when he was working he was perfect for me, smooth, quiet, very nice. There's another gear in there I've never asked for cuz he can cruz with an old lady jockey and still clock in the bottom of the 2D/top of the 3D.
I'd love to hear others that have struggled with this or something similar, when do you keep looking to find the problem, when do you say 'I'm done'. I don't have an endless pile of money, but realize I have less in this horse, that I know fits me, than I'd spend looking/vetting/trying other horses of similar talent.
Would love to hear other's experience and advice.
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1900
| That is a hard question to answer. I have spent a lot of time and vet bill$ on a couple and it paid off in the end. But I have also spent a lot of time and $ on a couple and it has been a pointless money pit. Looking back at how much I spent on each one trying to find the real issue and fix it, I could have bought another nice broke prospect and had them going faster. That said, I will no longer keep spending $$$ at the vet on one they can't diagnose within a couple visits. I will turn one out for a year to heal itself and give them a chance. Whatever it is, if it doesn't heal itself in a year, the odds are high the vet can't fix it either. Horses are too cheap these days and the vets are too high. | |
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme
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Sock Snob
Posts: 3021
| also treat for ulcers.
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 639
Location: God's country...aka TEXAS | My horse had kissing spine surgery as well. Ran good for a couple of months but then lame again. I treated for everything - EPM, ulcers, injections, chiro, teeth etc. Looked at his back again and he had a calcified ligament from the first surgery as well as more places where the vertebrae were touching. Did another back surgery. Then we discovered he had too much damage from the KS, and the vertebrae actually fused where it connects to spinal cord. I retired him after that. But to answer your question - I kept looking for answers no matter what even when people thought I was crazy. I knew that horse like the back of my hand and I knew when there was something wrong with him. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | I feel your pain. I have been pouring money into a bottomless bucket for the past six years. This is my dream horse, big, gorgeous, golden palomino with snow white mane & tail. Everywhere he goes people comment on how beautiful he is. I raised and trained him and he is a phenomenol barrel horse, the limited times I have gotten to run him. He has wicked turns & can hit the 1D with minimal effort. I just keep telling myself that if I can ever get & keep him sound that we will be unstoppable. But that "IF" never seems to happen. He has now been off for the past year for his latest issue (soft tissue injury down in the right rear hoof) and is still not sound in the turns. I have tried EVERYTHING. He is perfectly fine trotting & loping across the pasture, but you ask for a tight turn and he will give to it. As long as he is in my barn I keep searching for fixes. So I have finally decided to call it quits and move on to my other three that need my $$ and attention. It breaks my heart but I am hoping to find him a perfect, non barrelracing home. :( | |
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  Whack and Roll
Posts: 6342
Location: NE Texas | For those about to throw in the towel due to lameness issues, KS, respiratory issues or other "mystery" problems, I would encourage you to give the Cur-OST products, combined with a clean diet of whole foods, 30 - 60 days before you do. The history of my horse and 3 different vets giving him zero chance of recovery or even being comfortable enough to live life in a pasture were wrong. In 30 days I was back to exercsing him and haven't looked back. When I took the leap of faith, it was literally a last ditch attempt to save my horse before I put him down, and so glad I did take that leap! | |
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 Hog Tie My Mojo
Posts: 4847
Location: Opelousas, LA | TBone - 2016-08-10 8:20 AM I feel your pain. I have been pouring money into a bottomless bucket for the past six years. This is my dream horse, big, gorgeous, golden palomino with snow white mane & tail. Everywhere he goes people comment on how beautiful he is. I raised and trained him and he is a phenomenol barrel horse, the limited times I have gotten to run him. He has wicked turns & can hit the 1D with minimal effort. I just keep telling myself that if I can ever get & keep him sound that we will be unstoppable. But that "IF" never seems to happen. He has now been off for the past year for his latest issue (soft tissue injury down in the right rear hoof) and is still not sound in the turns. I have tried EVERYTHING. He is perfectly fine trotting & loping across the pasture, but you ask for a tight turn and he will give to it. As long as he is in my barn I keep searching for fixes. So I have finally decided to call it quits and move on to my other three that need my $$ and attention. It breaks my heart but I am hoping to find him a perfect, non barrelracing home. :(
That sucks, sounds like he would make a good pony horse, they just go straight. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | Thanks Herbie, but this horse was on Oats, Total Equine & Immune & Repair with coastal hay for nine months. | |
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Expert
Posts: 2604
Location: Texas | Barnmom - 2016-08-10 8:34 AM TBone - 2016-08-10 8:20 AM I feel your pain. I have been pouring money into a bottomless bucket for the past six years. This is my dream horse, big, gorgeous, golden palomino with snow white mane & tail. Everywhere he goes people comment on how beautiful he is. I raised and trained him and he is a phenomenol barrel horse, the limited times I have gotten to run him. He has wicked turns & can hit the 1D with minimal effort. I just keep telling myself that if I can ever get & keep him sound that we will be unstoppable. But that "IF" never seems to happen. He has now been off for the past year for his latest issue (soft tissue injury down in the right rear hoof) and is still not sound in the turns. I have tried EVERYTHING. He is perfectly fine trotting & loping across the pasture, but you ask for a tight turn and he will give to it. As long as he is in my barn I keep searching for fixes. So I have finally decided to call it quits and move on to my other three that need my $$ and attention. It breaks my heart but I am hoping to find him a perfect, non barrelracing home. :( That sucks, sounds like he would make a good pony horse, they just go straight.
I actually had someone contact me looking for a golden palomino to pony 2 yr olds on. I am a little nervous about him going to someone other than someone I know though. I only want him to have the very best of care! I do have a gal that bought a horse from me before that is considering him for just the occasional trail ride. I know he would be well taken care of by her. | |
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 Owner of a ratting catting machine
Posts: 2258
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I gave up and was going to put him down until I spent my last $300 in his budget on EPM medication. Euthanasia was imminent, as within a week or two.
He had an unprecedented response to treatment, now we're working on slowly putting his body back together with nutrition, exercise, and more EPM treatment. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I gave up on my dream horse. I knew it was time when I was hauling him to the vet and didn't even believe it was going to do any good. I didn't even bother to "hope" anymore. Then was just disgusted with myself for spending the money when I was proved right by another failed attempt to fix him.
We tried for years, multiple vets, multiple universities, multiples diagnoses. I finally sold him to someone who knew him before, knew his history, knew what I had gone through and truly believed she could fix him. She understood my giving up, but she wasn't ready to give up on him. She did eventually get him running again. But not back at the level he once was. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 672
| I have an older gelding that is a phenomenal heading horse, but has a pretty bad spur in his left hock. Yearly and then 6 months injections kept him sound, but then he slipped and pulled a muscle in his butt and hurt his stifle. Nothing we did after that could keep him sound longer than 2-3 months so he was retired. He has a lot of life left in him, but I don't have the $$$ or time to keep him going and he's happy keeping the yearlings in line and eating doughnuts :) | |
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 Balance Beam and more...
Posts: 11511
Location: 31 lengths farms | Unfortunately for my bank account my momma didn't raise no quitter, LOL!!! 
I don't have anything running at a super high level, just local stuff and a trip to Pendleton 4th of July race every now and then. For me my horses are family, I'm 51, I do not have kids, my horses really are my "children" so to speak. My 15 year old gelding had some foot issues on and off, spent way more than he is probably worth on paper to get him sorted out and on the right track. My big mare is an assortment of issues, blew up in the trailer for some reason, got an infection in the hock joint, was on and off lame over the next 2 years, had just gotten her figured out and sound and then she started doing weird stuff with her head, rubbing to the point of almost falling down, standing with her head on the ground inbetween her front feet, couldn't stand a halter to even be put on, lunging and complete melt down when my fiance insisted she was just naughty and I tried to ride her. She was terrified and shaking. Finally got a diagnosis of head shakers syndrome, have tried several things all which gave us some results and finally settled on Cur-ost and it has been a blessing for her. We had been at this between the hock and the head shakers since 2011.
And then there is CC, she found she not only was good at bucking but that she liked it, bucked me off 3 times, the last one fractured my knee cap, broke 5 ribs and bruised my heart. Life was a constant "what is going to happen today?" with her, then she ran into a tractor in 2011 and fractured her patella . Spent 10 months handwalking, first in straight lines in the pastures, then over cavelettis, then up and down hills. She came back sound and the biggest thing was thru all of that she and I formed a partnership, an understanding of each other, a deep respect for each other. Hence the reason I know she ran to my bedroom window when she was attacked by a mountain lion in 2013, spent some time healing up from those wounds. Really started to click with each other in the barrel pen and after a lesson she urinated straight blood, found she not only had a bladder stone but kidney stones. After doing research and finding there isnt' much out there put her on herbs for her kidneys, essential oils, bio-scan, PRAYED a lot. Kidneys looked good enough to have the bladderstone removed. Had a set back this last week with her but looking like its a bladder infection and not her kidneys not a stone in the bladder.
Days when I think "I'm too dang old for this" I remember that I'm too dang old to quit on them now.
Edited by run n rate 2016-08-10 11:58 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 975
Location: The barn...where else? SW Missouri | daisycake123 - 2016-08-10 6:10 AM
send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme
I had this exact thought also. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| RunNbarrels - 2016-08-10 11:45 AM
daisycake123 - 2016-08-10 6:10 AM
send a blood sample to dr. ellerson at pathogenes. doesnot cost much. test for epm/lyme
I had this exact thought also.
Thanks everyone. I expected a few responses but wow, I'm clearly not alone here.
We've already had and treated EPM, recovered. That was just a bump in the road. I won't do another blood test, the time we treated him it came back negative, yet he had classic EPM symptoms and had phenominal response to treatment. Those blood tests have enough false negatives and positives that it's about 50/50, so which do you know to believe.
Last vet was sure he had ulcers, scoped him and had a grade 1, nothing bad. Now the lyme issue is interesting, what are the symptoms associated with lyme, does it seem like EPM?
I really don't have that much money in this guy and I am not a trainer, so buying one I've got to train, or even finish is out of the question.....that's what trainers are for. Right now I've got about 1/2 of the money in him I'd have to spend on one that I could ride, (I'm OK but I'm not June Holman) and is sound. Add to that the fuel to go look, the vet checks, cuz I might go through 1 or 2 before I find one with few enough issues to take the chance. Folks never believe when I invite them to let me know up front what's wrong, .... we will find it. And I do, and then it's just not pleasant.
When he first was diagnosed my cousin told me about this Streakin' Six horse. Sounded great, drove about 2 hours to try him. Seemed smooth, wanted to work, but clearly not getting in the ground. The lady proudly proclaimed 'he'd never been injected'...yeah, no kidding. The price was great, and I thought maybe a little hock management and we may be good to go. Got him to the vet check, before we even did any diagnostics he had like one leg he was sound on. The thought of going through the search process and all that makes me cringe.
Team ropers love him cuz he's big. But, I'm not sure that's the job for him. He'd make a nice trail horse, and he's a real people horse, loves people, thinks he is a person I think.
Vet suggested a light treatment for the ulcers, get the acid calmed down, then go on NeighLox for maintenance. Injected hocks, they were a little sore and he does have a small amount of arthritis and when he's worked they need to be taken care of. I'm going to put him back to work and watch him, get him so holistic stuff, magnetic blankets, etc. If he relapses, my last ditch effort is a bone scan to pick up hot spots. I think one poster mentioned some findings there after KS.
Oh, and he sits on his feed trough. That apparently is something ulcer horses do, and also horses with back issues do that. Anyone had that symptom?
Just got to love equine addiction!
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| I got one that rears at 2nd barrel. Only when running. Not when coasting and only about 80% of the the time does she rear. When she doesn't rear she clocks in the 1D. I tried 2 vets they just kept saying stifle. Had it injected three times, blistered did adequan, Tried 2 trainers. Still the dreaded rear. I finally gave up when I realized she made barrel racing absolutely no fun anymore. I'm trying to breed her now but she still costing me more money even now cuz apparently she likes to throw twin eggs lol! And pinching one resulted in loosing both :(. Seems never ending with her! Ps vet believes stifle was an injury not a conformation flaw otherwise I wouldn't be breeding her. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 926
| JLBerry - 2016-08-10 6:45 AM
My horse had kissing spine surgery as well. Ran good for a couple of months but then lame again. I treated for everything - EPM, ulcers, injections, chiro, teeth etc. Looked at his back again and he had a calcified ligament from the first surgery as well as more places where the vertebrae were touching. Did another back surgery. Then we discovered he had too much damage from the KS, and the vertebrae actually fused where it connects to spinal cord. I retired him after that. But to answer your question - I kept looking for answers no matter what even when people thought I was crazy. I knew that horse like the back of my hand and I knew when there was something wrong with him.
Did you find the calcified issue with a bone scan or xray? | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | run n rate - 2016-08-10 11:36 AM
Unfortunately for my bank account my momma didn't raise no quitter, LOL!!!
I don't have anything running at a super high level, just local stuff and a trip to Pendleton 4th of July race every now and then. For me my horses are family, I'm 51, I do not have kids, my horses really are my "children" so to speak. My 15 year old gelding had some foot issues on and off, spent way more than he is probably worth on paper to get him sorted out and on the right track. My big mare is an assortment of issues, blew up in the trailer for some reason, got an infection in the hock joint, was on and off lame over the next 2 years, had just gotten her figured out and sound and then she started doing weird stuff with her head, rubbing to the point of almost falling down, standing with her head on the ground inbetween her front feet, couldn't stand a halter to even be put on, lunging and complete melt down when my fiance insisted she was just naughty and I tried to ride her. She was terrified and shaking. Finally got a diagnosis of head shakers syndrome, have tried several things all which gave us some results and finally settled on Cur-ost and it has been a blessing for her. We had been at this between the hock and the head shakers since 2011.
And then there is CC, she found she not only was good at bucking but that she liked it, bucked me off 3 times, the last one fractured my knee cap, broke 5 ribs and bruised my heart. Life was a constant "what is going to happen today?" with her, then she ran into a tractor in 2011 and fractured her patella . Spent 10 months handwalking, first in straight lines in the pastures, then over cavelettis, then up and down hills. She came back sound and the biggest thing was thru all of that she and I formed a partnership, an understanding of each other, a deep respect for each other. Hence the reason I know she ran to my bedroom window when she was attacked by a mountain lion in 2013, spent some time healing up from those wounds. Really started to click with each other in the barrel pen and after a lesson she urinated straight blood, found she not only had a bladder stone but kidney stones. After doing research and finding there isnt' much out there put her on herbs for her kidneys, essential oils, bio-scan, PRAYED a lot. Kidneys looked good enough to have the bladderstone removed. Had a set back this last week with her but looking like its a bladder infection and not her kidneys not a stone in the bladder.
Days when I think "I'm too dang old for this" I remember that I'm too dang old to quit on them now.
Your dedication to your kids always makes my heart happy  | |
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 Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | Herbie knows my story with my guy, she's given me the emotional boost I needed with him. We never could find anything really wrong with him. Not lame, but I noticed things that seemed "off." Checked for epm and nothing. I ended up turning mine out to pasture for almost a year. Put a cheap price tag on him and forgot about him. No bites so I brought him in and as a last ditch effort, I found a good trainer and told her give him 2 weeks. If he is still a turd, I'll run him through a sale. He's wonderful now, she put 60 days on him and we had our first hunter under saddle show a couple weeks ago. He's back to being my dream horse. I really think a lot of his issues were growth related. I had him started under saddle, 30 days, as a 3 yr old. Now that he is 5 he seems just fine. He's just shy of 17 hands.
I don't know what to tell you about giving up. This horse caused a lot of grief in the marriage because I just wasn't ready to quit on him. I am not in a location where we have access to good vets either. Most are ranch vets that spend more time with their arm up a cow. Pulling a coggins might be the most they do with horses. I would highly recommend an ulcer treatment just because work might be stressing him out, thinking of the pain he used to have. I use THE gastroPLUS. If you think he is sound in all other aspects, treat for ulcers. Might be the problem. Good luck to you. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. I know where you are, been there myself.
Edited by wyoming barrel racer 2016-08-10 10:13 PM
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