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Never Named
Posts: 1837
   
Location: Southern Alabama | I have a super nice grulla mare. I love this girl to death, in all honesty. However, she is not started under saddle. I have done all of the ground work - long lining, saddling her, stepping up on her, everything. She is SO SOFT in the face that she's almost to the point of being TOO soft and bendy. She moves all of her body parts, everything you could want. But, I have not stepped up on her. I have come to the realization that I don't need to be starting colts anymore. I have two titanium rods in my leg, a fake knee and a fake ankle, along with number screws, pins, plates. I cannot afford for one wrong move to send me to the hospital and the road of recovery again. I just cannot. I want to step up on the mare, I do.... SO BADLY. But, I am thinking with my logical brain here.
So, here are my options. I know a couple really nice trainers - one is a reiner and the other is a cutter. They both are willing to take her, get her broke and put a nice foundation on her.
The other is my farrier who is... well, he does cowboy stuff. He said he would take her and ride her, move cows, the works. Just miles. Or, he said he will come and ride her at my house, every single day... for $45 a ride.
The first trainer, the reiner - he is kind of an egotistical jerk. But, he's good. But... some of the things have weirded me out some. He told me my horse has to be switched to HIS feed and will need to continue this feed when she comes home. I offered to bring feed, enough for the month, to him. He said he did not allow that. Also, he does not give any kind of updates and does not want me to come even check on her... does that send off red flags?
The second, the cutter - Nice guy. Nice, nice horses. But, he also asked if he could futurity my mare at a low level. I said I didn't think so. He wants to haul her to clinics with him and use her. Should I let him?
The third guy, my farrier - He does not follow any specific discipline... but, he is a hell of a hand. BUT, his wife. UGH. She wants to ride everything that goes to their house. I told him, NOBODY else gets on my horse. He said he knew the wife would want to ride. I don't want her on my horse. She is not that good of a hand... she thinks she's a barrel racer but her horses are awful. I've tried to help her, she knows it all.
So, this is my question - what do you expect of your trainers? Do you want them to follow YOUR wants and needs? Or, do you just let them do whatever you see fit? Do you let them tell you what to feed your horse? I mean.... this is my first time sending a horse off. I have always started my own and honestly, I want one started by someone that is as good, if not better than I am. I have just came to a reasonable, logical point that I just cannot physically do it, anymore.
Tell me the good, the bad and the ugly about anything you can think of that is relevant to what I am saying... because, I think I am just rambling.
Edited by TURNNBURNCOWGIRL 2017-02-15 8:05 AM
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 Experienced Mouse Trapper
Posts: 3106
Location: North Dakota | sounds to me like you need to find someone you like and will work with you. The feed thing with the one guy could be that he's experienced "fed up" weirdos in the past-and as far as that goes when she comes home feed her what you want but don't complain about how she acts-he will use the feed as an excuse. The one wanting to take her and futurity her and take her to clinics sounds like the most bang for your buck. There has to be someone in your horse world that will do what you ask. | |
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I just read the headlines
Posts: 4483
| You are not being salty. I have only had 1 I sent to trainers. The first trainer did not get along with my filly. The second trainer was great with her. Both places they fed my feed. The second trainer asked what we wanted him to accomplish on the filly and then he did it. We didn't want anything fancy, just walk, trot, lope, etc.
Based on your description is have my farrier work her at my house, or use the cutter and decide if you wanted her going to futurities. Would she be used all day at the clinics or would take other horses to use at the clinic, too? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | My opinion...I'd keep looking for someone else. Your horse, your money.
I would never send a horse off to someone that wouldn't let me at least stop by and see progress, so yes, the reiner sets off a red flag to me. The cutting guy might not be a bad choice if you can work out an arrangement you are both comfortable with. I'd pass on the farrier and that drama...if things don't go well you might be looking for a new farrier too.
As for the feeding...I've seen that both ways, but I've never heard of a trainer dictating that you need to feed his feed after the horse leaves?? That's ridiculous.
Bottom line, you and the trainer should be able to each work with each other's needs and wants. You have a right to expect certain things and the trainer has a right to use their program. But if both parties views are completely different it's a bad fit. If you can work out something with the cutting guy great, but if not, keep looking.
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | The reiner... I spoke to him on the phone for about 2 hours... he just didn't give me that warm and fuzzy feeling, you know? The cutter is a super nice guy, invited me to come ride and work with him for a weekend, since I have rode cutters and let me see his operation. He said he does have imterns that saddle and cool down horses, but, he rides all of the training horses. And, he likes the way my mare is bred. He said he would like to use her at his clinics along with two of his finished horses, to show finished and unfinished, I suppose. But, that brings me to a whole new debate... I bought this mare to rodeo on. She's already 5. Would you let him futurity on her, if she were yours, even though you have plans for her?
?The farrier, I really like this guy. He is kind and patience, but, puts up with no BS from them. My mare is a little bit of a brat and he never puts up with it.
?The reiner and the cutter are more than 4 hours, in one direction from me. The farrier is less than 30 minutes.... | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| They work for you, so you are the boss! I would look further for someone or have the farrier come ride at your place daily. I wouldn't dare send my horse to someone that doesn't give updates or won't let me come over when I want. He will feed what I want not what he wants. Again I'm paying the bills so he goes by my orders. | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2017-02-15 8:19 AM My opinion...I'd keep looking for someone else. Your horse, your money.
I would never send a horse off to someone that wouldn't let me at least stop by and see progress, so yes, the reiner sets off a red flag to me. The cutting guy might not be a bad choice if you can work out an arrangement you are both comfortable with. I'd pass on the farrier and that drama...if things don't go well you might be looking for a new farrier too.
As for the feeding...I've seen that both ways, but I've never heard of a trainer dictating that you need to feed his feed after the horse leaves?? That's ridiculous.
Bottom line, you and the trainer should be able to each work with each other's needs and wants. You have a right to expect certain things and the trainer has a right to use their program. But if both parties views are completely different it's a bad fit. If you can work out something with the cutting guy great, but if not, keep looking.
I agree about the farrier... which is why I was more leaning on him coming here and riding her. Which, he said he is perfectly fine with. But, am I being one of those worry wart owners then? I have been talking to the cutter and, he is a nice guy. But, I just don't know if I want him to take her to clinics and everything. | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | barrelrider - 2017-02-15 8:20 AM They work for you, so you are the boss! I would look further for someone or have the farrier come ride at your place daily. I wouldn't dare send my horse to someone that doesn't give updates or won't let me come over when I want. He will feed what I want not what he wants. Again I'm paying the bills so he goes by my orders.
I feel that way too. The clients pay your bills, you should take their wants, needs and opinions into consideration. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 364
| Personally, I'd have the farrier ride her at your place. That way you can be there through the process and watch the first few rides, observe and ask questions. I like to know exactly what a horse is doing or acting like right from the start. | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | LabRat - 2017-02-15 8:29 AM Personally, I'd have the farrier ride her at your place. That way you can be there through the process and watch the first few rides, observe and ask questions. I like to know exactly what a horse is doing or acting like right from the start.
I am really leaning towards him, honestly. I can do all of the putting the foundation on her... but, I am just realistic the point that I no longer need to step up on something forthe first 20 or so rides that might put me on my head. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 878
Location: "...way down south in the Everglades..." | TURNNBURNCOWGIRL - 2017-02-15 9:22 AM Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2017-02-15 8:19 AM My opinion...I'd keep looking for someone else. Your horse, your money.
I would never send a horse off to someone that wouldn't let me at least stop by and see progress, so yes, the reiner sets off a red flag to me. The cutting guy might not be a bad choice if you can work out an arrangement you are both comfortable with. I'd pass on the farrier and that drama...if things don't go well you might be looking for a new farrier too.
As for the feeding...I've seen that both ways, but I've never heard of a trainer dictating that you need to feed his feed after the horse leaves?? That's ridiculous.
Bottom line, you and the trainer should be able to each work with each other's needs and wants. You have a right to expect certain things and the trainer has a right to use their program. But if both parties views are completely different it's a bad fit. If you can work out something with the cutting guy great, but if not, keep looking.
I agree about the farrier... which is why I was more leaning on him coming here and riding her. Which, he said he is perfectly fine with. But, am I being one of those worry wart owners then? I have been talking to the cutter and, he is a nice guy. But, I just don't know if I want him to take her to clinics and everything.
If your farrier can come to your house then it might work out good for you. And no, I don't think you are worrying unnecessarily..I'd feel the same way!
Your mare is 5? I'm not super into the cutting world but I thought their futurities were for 3-4 year olds? If you don't want him taking her to events (clinics/shows) he should respect your wishes. If he's not willing to do that I would pass.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 364
| TURNNBURNCOWGIRL - 2017-02-15 8:32 AM
LabRat - 2017-02-15 8:29 AM Personally, I'd have the farrier ride her at your place. That way you can be there through the process and watch the first few rides, observe and ask questions. I like to know exactly what a horse is doing or acting like right from the start.
I am really leaning towards him, honestly. I can do all of the putting the foundation on her... but, I am just realistic the point that I no longer need to step up on something forthe first 20 or so rides that might put me on my head.
I don't blame you for not wanting to put on the first rides. The good thing about having him ride at your place is seeing with your own eyes how much time with someone else she actually needs. I've broke horses that are the easiest thing and wouldn't even think about spooking or bucking and have proven to me that the never will. And others.. well, they might need some long days pushing cattle. You just never know. | |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7550
Location: In The Land of Cotton | Who is the cutting horse trainer? And, you can PM me if you want to. | |
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Regular
Posts: 84
| I think you have already made up your own mind. I find other peoples ideas/rules so strange. My fiance breaks/starts horses for other people. I also take barrel horses for a few clients. We have cut down drastically on taking other peoples horses within the last year, as we noticed we were neglecting our own, and just putting all of our time/work into every one elses horses.
With that being said, we always offer two prices, one with us supplying hay and grain, and one with you supplying hay and grain. He cannot dictate what you feed your horse once it comes home. We have had a few very "pesty" clients that sent horses to get broke and were literally at our house every single day watching and asking questions. Dont get me wrong, I do not mind the questions..but when you are stopping us and we have to explain every move we make and you are talking more than we are working, you are hindering the process of your horse getting broke. I will always update, every 2-3 days, and let them know the good and bad. So I find the feed/no updates very strange and I would just mark him off the list.
I cannot say that horses that are sent to my house for me to ride, are not ever rode by my fiance, and vise versa... so if that is a concern of yours, then I would not send her to your farrier.
As far as the cutter wanting to futurity, how long are you planning on sending her to trainer? When we take horses, we normally have somewhat of an idea as far as how long the owner expects them to be there. Not sure how fast he is planning on bringing her along, but that would be a question that I would expect from clients. If I sent horses off, I would not have a problem with a trainer taking them to clinics. The more things they see, IMO, the better. We often have people request we haul their horses to a few shows just to get that over with for them...
All in all, go with your gut! | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | tothebrim - 2017-02-15 8:57 AM I think you have already made up your own mind. I find other peoples ideas/rules so strange. My fiance breaks/starts horses for other people. I also take barrel horses for a few clients. We have cut down drastically on taking other peoples horses within the last year, as we noticed we were neglecting our own, and just putting all of our time/work into every one elses horses. With that being said, we always offer two prices, one with us supplying hay and grain, and one with you supplying hay and grain. He cannot dictate what you feed your horse once it comes home. We have had a few very "pesty" clients that sent horses to get broke and were literally at our house every single day watching and asking questions. Dont get me wrong, I do not mind the questions..but when you are stopping us and we have to explain every move we make and you are talking more than we are working, you are hindering the process of your horse getting broke. I will always update, every 2-3 days, and let them know the good and bad. So I find the feed/no updates very strange and I would just mark him off the list. I cannot say that horses that are sent to my house for me to ride, are not ever rode by my fiance, and vise versa... so if that is a concern of yours, then I would not send her to your farrier. As far as the cutter wanting to futurity, how long are you planning on sending her to trainer? When we take horses, we normally have somewhat of an idea as far as how long the owner expects them to be there. Not sure how fast he is planning on bringing her along, but that would be a question that I would expect from clients. If I sent horses off, I would not have a problem with a trainer taking them to clinics. The more things they see, IMO, the better. We often have people request we haul their horses to a few shows just to get that over with for them... All in all, go with your gut!
I would not mind if the farrier's wife was a half way decent horsewoman. But, in all honesty... she is not. I do not want to show up and watch, but, an occasional phone call would be nice, you know? | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2017-02-15 8:37 AM TURNNBURNCOWGIRL - 2017-02-15 9:22 AM Speedy Buckeye Girl - 2017-02-15 8:19 AM My opinion...I'd keep looking for someone else. Your horse, your money.
I would never send a horse off to someone that wouldn't let me at least stop by and see progress, so yes, the reiner sets off a red flag to me. The cutting guy might not be a bad choice if you can work out an arrangement you are both comfortable with. I'd pass on the farrier and that drama...if things don't go well you might be looking for a new farrier too.
As for the feeding...I've seen that both ways, but I've never heard of a trainer dictating that you need to feed his feed after the horse leaves?? That's ridiculous.
Bottom line, you and the trainer should be able to each work with each other's needs and wants. You have a right to expect certain things and the trainer has a right to use their program. But if both parties views are completely different it's a bad fit. If you can work out something with the cutting guy great, but if not, keep looking.
I agree about the farrier... which is why I was more leaning on him coming here and riding her. Which, he said he is perfectly fine with. But, am I being one of those worry wart owners then? I have been talking to the cutter and, he is a nice guy. But, I just don't know if I want him to take her to clinics and everything.
Your mare is 5? I'm not super into the cutting world but I thought their futurities were for 3-4 year olds? If you don't want him taking her to events (clinics/shows) he should respect your wishes. If he's not willing to do that I would pass.
Yes, she is 5. Just turned 5. I am not so sure that he wants to futurity on her, or... if he just wants to use her in his clinics.. to show pople his ways work, you know? Maybe I misinterpreted that and then did not clearly relay it here. The farrier will ride the snot out of her, I know that. And, in all honsty, that is probably what she needs. She is quite the overly sensitive mare, to be honest. | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | 3canstorun - 2017-02-15 8:44 AM Who is the cutting horse trainer? And, you can PM me if you want to.
Sent you a message :) | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | In my personal opinion, i would have the farrier come ride for the first 15 or so rides and see how shes progressing. After that, if you feel like she needs more or they arent working out then i would go with the cutter. Thats a lot of exposure/hauling for your girl, and you can also point out how much is too much if you dont really want her ran in the futurities that much and just simply tell him. He sounds like he's very willing to work with you and if you're that worried that he might go behind your back, have a contract wrote up. The trainer i use has never told me i had to feed her feed or that i couldnt come see my horses, thats a HUGE red flag for me. Best of Luck to you! | |
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 Expert
Posts: 2097
Location: Deep South | I would mark the reiner off the list completely. Anyone who won't let you see the horse the entire time they have possession of it is a BIG RED FLAG.
I don't personally like the "old cowboy" way of breaking colts, so the farrier would not appeal to me.
In my opinion, the cutter hauling her to clinics would just be a plus. I don't see the issue there. He would be riding her the same as if he was riding her at his place. She wouldn't be missing rides while he's gone. That's just hauling and exposure for her (which I have never viewed as a bad thing, especially for a 5yo). BUT, if you have an issue with it, he should respect your wishes. Plain and simple. You are paying for a service and should get what you ask for.
Btw, I'm not aware of any 5yo cutting futurities, and if there are you would have to leave your mare with him for a significant amount of time for him to have her ready to show (6-12 months is the norm). By the tone of your post it sounds like you just want the mare gone long enough to be broke? 60-90 days? Maybe I'm assuming too much there. | |
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Never Named
Posts: 1837
Location: Southern Alabama | BamaCanChaser - 2017-02-15 9:32 AM
I would mark the reiner off the list completely. Anyone who won't let you see the horse the entire time they have possession of it is a BIG RED FLAG.
I don't personally like the "old cowboy" way of breaking colts, so the farrier would not appeal to me.
In my opinion, the cutter hauling her to clinics would just be a plus. I don't see the issue there. He would be riding her the same as if he was riding her at his place. She wouldn't be missing rides while he's gone. That's just hauling and exposure for her (which I have never viewed as a bad thing, especially for a 5yo). BUT, if you have an issue with it, he should respect your wishes. Plain and simple. You are paying for a service and should get what you ask for.
Btw, I'm not aware of any 5yo cutting futurities, and if there are you would have to leave your mare with him for a significant amount of time for him to have her ready to show (6-12 months is the norm). By the tone of your post it sounds like you just want the mare gone long enough to be broke? 60-90 days? Maybe I'm assuming too much there.
Maybe I did not relay any of this clearly, lol.
The farrier doesn't 'break' them the old cowboy way, if that makes sense. But, while he has them.... he does use them. He checks his cows, fences, etc. on them. Hard days work. Which, I like. I think they are much more broke and level headed after having to work. He will also haul her places, etc.
I like the idea of the cutter... but, he is over 6 hours, one way from me. That, in itself, makes me nervous. Maybe because I have never sent a horse off, I don't know.
Yes, I am only wanting her to be gone about 60-90 days. He is not going to futurity her, just use her for clinics, is what he said. I guess to show how his method works from a training horse to a finished horse? She is also entirely to large to be a cutter, in my mind. Measuring out at right at 16hh | |
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