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Veteran
Posts: 107
| What is everyone's favorite training tool when it comes to aiding with collection and bending at the poll with their horse? I am not very familiar with all of the tools out there, however, a friend let me try her "neck stretcher" out on my horse and I loved how she just seemed more balanced in it. However, I didn't like how her lateral movement was so limited.
I would like something that I could work her on in barrels to help her keep her form; she knows how to collect under but she gets really fussy if I have contact on the bit too much. She isn't over sensitive to the bit but she was yanked on in the past so we both get along better if I stay out of her mouth as much as possible. So, what is everyone's favorite or recommendations when it comes to using a martingale or other "aid" to help your horse stay collected and balanced? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | Oh goodness that "neck stretcher" sounds like a medieval torture devince 
Could you find a picture of one being used? LOL
Personally I just like a running martingale (sometimes called training fork). It's hard to over-use it and back a horse off of the bit too much, or even make them scared of the bit like using draw reins too harshly does. |
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 Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
 
Location: Montana | I really like my running martingale...my trainer recommends I keep it on my youngster for a while (she's 3 this year) and every once in a while I use it on my main mare to get her back to where she needs to be (she gets lazy, as do I, LOL). |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| QHriderKE - 2017-03-19 10:02 PM
Oh goodness that "neck stretcher" sounds like a medieval torture devince
Could you find a picture of one being used? LOL
Personally I just like a running martingale (sometimes called training fork ). It's hard to over-use it and back a horse off of the bit too much, or even make them scared of the bit like using draw reins too harshly does.
Definitely not the most welcoming name that's for sure! I only used it for about 5 minutes because it restricted lateral movement so much, but some people swear by it and run in it too..... I did like the collection she had at the poll for the short time I used it but I could see it causing a heavy front end if over-used.
Here's a link to a picture of one!
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&ca... |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | People run in those?
Their horses must be stiff as a board?
Bizarre. |
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Veteran
Posts: 107
| What type of running martingale do you usually use? I've seen some string ones that are relatively inexpensive but don't have the little holder strap that goes around the neck. Or if you had to pick between a training fork and a running martingale, which would you choose?
Like this string training fork:
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/mustang-cowboy-string-training-fo...
Then here's a leather running martingale:
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/weaver-leather-standard-running-m...
Sorry for all the questions!!  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | I use a leather one with the neck strap because I don't usually have a breastcollar on my saddle for just flat work. Less stuff to get sweaty and itchy under. The string one looks okay too, but you may have to play with it a bit to adjust it right.
One of these babies would do you just fine if you dont feel the whole neck strap thing is necessary.
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/weaver-harness-leather-rubber-tub...
https://www.statelinetack.com/item/weaver-leather-training-fork-girt... |
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Total Germophobe
Posts: 6443
Location: Montana | I use the leather one as well. My friend let me borrow hers until I could get one. I'm very pleased with using one.  |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | Also make sure that if you are using reins with snaps on the ends to use something as a sort of "keeper" to stop the rings from getting stuck on the snaps.
I use those rubber bit guards, they're cheap and easy to replace if I lose one. I've also cut slits in old cow ear tags and slid them on my reins for stoppers too. |
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 Saint Stacey
| I prefer a German martingale to any other. You get the draw but only to a certain point then it's normal reins.
A training fork (running martingale) is what the track trainers use to teach one to run into the bit. They are easy to overdo and the horse learns pretty quick how to lug on your hands.
The side reins (what you are calling a neck stretcher) allow very little relief. Especially if it's even just a little too tight with the adjustment. It teaches one to be too much behind the vertical. I want a barrel horse to follow the nose in the turns. I don't want one to bury their face.
All the "headset" in the world does no good without the proper frame. Usually if you fix the frame the headset naturally follows .
Edited by SKM 2017-03-20 7:07 AM
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 1079
Location: MN | SKM - 2017-03-20 7:01 AM I prefer a German martingale to any other. You get the draw but only to a certain point then it's normal reins. A training fork (running martingale) is what the track trainers use to teach one to run into the bit. They are easy to overdo and the horse learns pretty quick how to lug on your hands. The side reins (what you are calling a neck stretcher) allow very little relief. Especially if it's even just a little too tight with the adjustment. It teaches one to be too much behind the vertical. I want a barrel horse to follow the nose in the turns. I don't want one to bury their face. All the "headset" in the world does no good without the proper frame. Usually if you fix the frame the headset naturally follows .
^^^THIS! German martingale is hands down my favorite training tool.
I also like draw reins every once in a while to really round one out but you have to know how to use them correctly and not over do it.
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 349
Location: texas | I like the german...
I agree w another poster, it engages to a certain point and then u can have just regular rein, and w the rings on reins u can adjust very easily....
Its just user friendly, to me u dont loose anything such as flex and lateral movement |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 599
| Should you only use o-ring bits with a German martingale ? Or D-ring....? |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| I really like the martingale as well! But actually, my favorite tool is just an average training fork like this one: https://www.statelinetack.com/item/weaver-harness-leather-training-f...
All of my horses have responded really well to it, and you can use any type of bit with it. I use it for my warm ups and all my slow work on every stage of horse =]
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 Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| I LOVE my neck stretcher for building topline but I only lunge with it, I don't ride them in it. It has done wonders for my gelding and his KS.
However, when riding I prefer a german martingale or a running martingale. I try to switch it up but I don't use them often. My gelding was a dressage foundation but every once in awhile he needs a tuneup.
On the lungeline he moves like a cow so we need some aids there. I alternate between long lines and the neck stretcher. |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | Someone briefly mentioned this but I am going to reiterate, collection or being bent at the poll IS NOT true collection. True collection involves them gathering their entire body and using their hind end with impulsion. They round out their back. A lot of people get them to bend their head only and then become convinced they have collected the horse. Just make sure you can feel the horse round the back and bring their hind end under them to work. True collection usually gets them to bend at the poll but they can bend at the poll without collection. That's why some of these tools can be counter productive with horses if all you are doing is teaching them to give you their nose more but their back is still hollow and their hind end strung out. Then they end up with just a really muscled neck. |
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Regular
Posts: 90
| This is my favorite running martingale. Cheap enough so if you lose it, they're an easy replacement. Always, always use rein stops with rings like these! I like this one because I can tie one knot and it's adjusted exactly how I like. I don't want them regularly hitting the rings. The rings just about reach the throatlatch when I use it.
https://www.jefferspet.com/products/string-martingale-training-fork |
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Not Afraid to Work
Posts: 4717
| oija - 2017-03-20 11:06 AM
Someone briefly mentioned this but I am going to reiterate, collection or being bent at the poll IS NOT true collection. True collection involves them gathering their entire body and using their hind end with impulsion. They round out their back. A lot of people get them to bend their head only and then become convinced they have collected the horse. Just make sure you can feel the horse round the back and bring their hind end under them to work. True collection usually gets them to bend at the poll but they can bend at the poll without collection. That's why some of these tools can be counter productive with horses if all you are doing is teaching them to give you their nose more but their back is still hollow and their hind end strung out. Then they end up with just a really muscled neck.
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 I'm Cooler Offline
Posts: 6387
Location: Pacific Northwest | oija - 2017-03-20 9:06 AM
Someone briefly mentioned this but I am going to reiterate, collection or being bent at the poll IS NOT true collection. True collection involves them gathering their entire body and using their hind end with impulsion. They round out their back. A lot of people get them to bend their head only and then become convinced they have collected the horse. Just make sure you can feel the horse round the back and bring their hind end under them to work. True collection usually gets them to bend at the poll but they can bend at the poll without collection. That's why some of these tools can be counter productive with horses if all you are doing is teaching them to give you their nose more but their back is still hollow and their hind end strung out. Then they end up with just a really muscled neck.
This...I worry more about where they're tracking and if their back is rounded. Generally their head will lower if everything else is correct. As long as they aren't flinging their head away from me I don't nitpick about the "headset" too much.
That being said, my mare can be a brat about her head sometimes. She gets in these moods when she's wound up and will throw her head every time I ask for anything. If she refuses to work out of it I put draw reins on her for about 10 minutes. |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | oija - 2017-03-20 11:06 AM
Someone briefly mentioned this but I am going to reiterate, collection or being bent at the poll IS NOT true collection. True collection involves them gathering their entire body and using their hind end with impulsion. They round out their back. A lot of people get them to bend their head only and then become convinced they have collected the horse. Just make sure you can feel the horse round the back and bring their hind end under them to work. True collection usually gets them to bend at the poll but they can bend at the poll without collection. That's why some of these tools can be counter productive with horses if all you are doing is teaching them to give you their nose more but their back is still hollow and their hind end strung out. Then they end up with just a really muscled neck.
Yes, this. I personally don't like martingales, though I do understand that they have a use, and for that reason I do own one and very occasionally use it. However I find it much more effective to spend a few days teaching one to do it right.
Example: this mare was horribly unbalanced and not broke in her face or body. Fought me terrible about it too. Would throw her face around and root, stick her nose up to evade, and I'd had it with her. I tied her head down and let her fight it out for a few min, then went about gently encouraging her to move forward and up into her bridle. This was the result of 15 min of work.
And she was a totally different horse for the better when I rode her. Not that she's miraculously fixed, she'd benefit from a few more sessions, but the difference in teaching her to move up underself and into the bit was Night and Day. She's a beautiful mover, just had no idea HOW. |
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