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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
 
Location: Saskatchewan | I know this horse has the natural ability to get there, and I've trained her from scratch this far.... I just need a little help getting *there*.
The first season I started to run her, our best runs landed us at the top of the 2D (2nd or 3rd, usually only a handful of girls were clocking 1D at the jackpots I was going to. One time, our 2nd in the 2D was the 5th fastest time of the day), and when I really screwed up, we would end up winning the 3D or something in that area.
She's a grade horse I picked up for free as a yearling and have done every single thing with her myself. When I decided to get her on barrels, it was the first time I really tried to run barrels. I was a team roper through and through, so I literally had no idea what to do when actually running a barrel horse.
She runs in a smooth dogbone jr. cowhorse but I want to try to run her in a ring snaffle this year, she does better when I stay away from her face.
So, what advice do you have for me to get this horse clocking a little bit faster? As I just said, I really had no idea how to ride a barrel horse (in a run) before I started to run this horse, so most of the problems are my fault 100%.
Here are a few videos of our best runs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-0G4hfW6s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L4mrvHOQo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZcXd-vrwdg
Breezing through with a snaffle:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-5hHtTCNVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-i0CUrvzhg
See, the horse has a lot of ability, it's just me that's the problem!
Edited by QHriderKE 2017-06-05 9:19 AM
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12841
  
| I suggest you go to a clinic. You would be amazed how much that will help. Go and try to absorb everything.
You are losing a lot of time in your turns and leaving the barrel. Also the horse looks like mine---a fat sausage. Get the horse trimmed down so it is not having to haul around so much weight. |
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| You have done a good job. I would find a good trainer to send her to fine tune the details, tighter turns, straighter lines, not starting your turn to soon. Then they can teach you how to ride her and keep her there. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | streakysox - 2017-04-19 12:13 PM
I suggest you go to a clinic. You would be amazed how much that will help. Go and try to absorb everything.
You are losing a lot of time in your turns and leaving the barrel. Also the horse looks like mine---a fat sausage. Get the horse trimmed down so it is not having to haul around so much weight.
I'm trying to get to a few clinics this year, it's in the works.
She's honestly just that type of horse. I had her on a starvation diet (only got turned out on green grass mornings and evenings, slow feed hay net the rest of the time, and a complete feed with noni and a few other supplements), rode nearly daily and did a lot of long trotting and conditioning and everything you're supposed to do.... and this is how trim she got:
I'm convinced she's just a chunk that that's all there is to it.
I've been trying to get a smaller pocket on 2nd, seems to be a recurring issue that we take that one wide.
And the video where she goes super wide on first, I made her do that because when I was practicing the day before, she kept wanting to murder that barrel so I played it safe and made sure she didn't, so that one was all me. |
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 Expert
Posts: 2128
| First of all, you've done a great job!! Well done! I have a horse that looks chunky no matter how fit he is also, I feel your pain. I spent some time with Sarah Rose McDonald a couple of months ago and she really believes in super tight turns. She would have me run basically right at the barrels and just to the side enough to not hit them (when their hip is past the barrel) and have them come back to you and out of the turn. I visualize the pattern much differently now. I see it in my runs also. My turns are quicker /tighter with less steps. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | I was going to go to a clinic put on by a really good barrel horse trainer, but of course, it falls on the same day as my college graduation!
I've been on the hunt for other clinics around, so I will try to get to as many as I can! |
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 Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | scwebster - 2017-04-19 1:33 PM First of all, you've done a great job!! Well done! I have a horse that looks chunky no matter how fit he is also, I feel your pain. I spent some time with Sarah Rose McDonald a couple of months ago and she really believes in super tight turns. She would have me run basically right at the barrels and just to the side enough to not hit them (when their hip is past the barrel) and have them come back to you and out of the turn. I visualize the pattern much differently now. I see it in my runs also. My turns are quicker /tighter with less steps.
Wouldn't that force a horse to have a roll back style? |
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Regular
Posts: 53
| Your losing a lot of time on the second. Ideally your horse should only have three strides around the barrel. Go back to your slow work. Look on YouTube under Sheri Cervi. She has videos of drills that she does with her horses. |
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Zeal Queen
Posts: 3826
Location: TEXAS | I'm about to try out a new tool Kimmie Wall has. It's $65 and you send her a video. It breaks your run down and shows where you are losing time. |
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 Too Skinny
Posts: 8009
Location: LA Lower Alabama | slacy09 - 2017-04-19 2:43 PM I'm about to try out a new tool Kimmie Wall has. It's $65 and you send her a video. It breaks your run down and shows where you are losing time.
Ill do that for $50 |
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Expert
Posts: 2128
| slacy09 - 2017-04-19 2:23 PM scwebster - 2017-04-19 1:33 PM First of all, you've done a great job!! Well done! I have a horse that looks chunky no matter how fit he is also, I feel your pain. I spent some time with Sarah Rose McDonald a couple of months ago and she really believes in super tight turns. She would have me run basically right at the barrels and just to the side enough to not hit them (when their hip is past the barrel) and have them come back to you and out of the turn. I visualize the pattern much differently now. I see it in my runs also. My turns are quicker /tighter with less steps. Wouldn't that force a horse to have a roll back style?
I see what you are saying and it crossed my mind as well. From what I gathered its almost like a rollback but you use your feet to round them out of the back of the turn. This would have been a great question for me to ask her when I had the chance. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | I would say that the 2nd barrel is my biggest obstacle. If I set her up right for 1st, she snaps around it just fine. I just have to remember to set her up right for it.
I'm not sure if really riding her by 2nd would help or make it worse? In slow work, I work on a TON of rate, cause she needs it, and I do a lot of counter arcing on the back-side to get her finishing and leg yielding her to the left between 2 and 3 to reinforce finishing the barrel as well, but it has yet to really "stick" when it comes to running. I'm usually really happy with her slow work when I compare it to all of the videos of different exercises on youtube. I'm pretty sure that a lot of the issues are just me being a crappy jockey when we run. She's not seasoned, and really needs me to step up my game and give her the support she needs to make a smokin run.
I have a habit of just quitting riding between 2nd and 3rd, I need someone to scream and yell at me for that, too. She rates down and turns 3rd nice all on her own because of that.
I'm wondering if I should be really driving her into her turns more? Like sort of think of pushing her through her pocket before sitting down to turn? Also, is bitting down to a snaffle a good choice? She seems to just be more free and smooth if she can kind of "ignore" or the cues are more subdued in the snaffle. I do all schooling and slow work in this bit:
http://cdnll.doversaddlery.com/images/xl/0010177.jpg
It would be what I'd run her in too if the stars align lol. She rides in a bosal just fine I found out when I bought one for another horse, so I don't see why I couldn't run her in the snaffle....
I've exhausted nearly every barrel horse training video on youtube just to get this horse this far. Training one from scratch isn't a walk in the park, that's for sure. Making a half decent head or heel horse? I can do that. Ranch horse? Heck, they're all ranch horses first! Barrel horse? Way out of my element!!!!
Most days, I think I've somehow trained a horse that is beyond my ability.
I'm going to try to even just practice with and pick the brains of some good barrel racers/trainers in the area I'm moving to in a month. Every little bit helps!
Edited by QHriderKE 2017-04-19 3:24 PM
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 Saint Stacey
| What I'm seeing is a horse that lacks a little confidence. In some ways, you've done a beautiful job. In other ways, you've sort of set this horse up to fail. You seem to rely more on your hands than your body. You are basically running into your turns and then you pull the horse around. You barely sit so you aren't giving the horse a chance to rate and turn before you are pulling. I would walk to my rate point forward in the saddle and two handed. When I get to that point, I would roll my butt back, sit down deep, say Whoa and let the horse have a chance to stop before I pulled on the reins. Then I would let the horse move forward, twist my torso, inside leg off, outside on and maybe slightly lift on the rein to help finish. Concentrate more on your body telling the horse where to go and less on your hands forcing the turns.You've taken the snap out by making the horse anticipate the snatch on the mouth. Your horse WANTS to turn. Stop trying to force it and just let the horse work by using your body and feet.
On second, JMHO but you are starting your turn too soon and making your pocket too big. I'd drive straight across the pen, about 3' off the barrel, hold the horse straight until between his shoulder and my leg was even with the barrel, then let him turn. That gives you three strides around second instead of the five or six you are currently doing.
Also, not sure why you were loping through the pattern in the slop?? As slick as it was, practicing in that is a good way to injure one or take all the try out of them. Again, JMO.
These videos are a few years old. But they show what I'm talking about on second.
https://youtu.be/GCwVyMLig5M
https://youtu.be/wpdjLr6JPhw
https://youtu.be/eBp7cRhq9Ps
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | I didn't think it was slop, it's a little slick but I didn't push her, so she could figure it out.
I plan to rodeo off this horse, so she'll have to get used to less than ideal ground sooner or later.
I've ranched off of this horse long before running barrels off her, I've roped cows in December in the ice and snow off her, if she can't handle a little slip, then it is what it is. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | I remember when you posted these videos the first time, I say find a good clinic so you can learn how to help your horse and yourself..
You are jerking on her head to turn, you need to learn how to use your hands..
Edited by Southtxponygirl 2017-04-19 5:17 PM
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Saint Stacey
| QHriderKE - 2017-04-19 3:53 PM
I didn't think it was slop, it's a little slick but I didn't push her, so she could figure it out.
I plan to rodeo off this horse, so she'll have to get used to less than ideal ground sooner or later.
I've ranched off of this horse long before running barrels off her, I've roped cows in December in the ice and snow off her, if she can't handle a little slip, then it is what it is.
If you've ranched off of her in the mud, roped cows in the ice, etc then she knows how to keep her feet underneath her in crap conditions. She obviously knows the barrel pattern. She shouldn't need to be practiced in the slop to learn how to handle it. Don't make the mistake of potentially injuring a nice horse by having a teenager mentality when it comes to practicing. We've all done it at one point. Learn from the mistakes that some of us have already made. I don't know of any pro girls that practice in the mud. Ride in it, sure. Gallop a barrel pattern, no. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 378
Location: Saskatchewan | At the moment it looked fine, until it got a bit deep and she had to fight the ground a little on third. It is what it is. I know this horse cant handle a slip here or there without hurting herself. She was bred to be a bronc or a pack-horse in the mountains after all...
Little slips here or there aren't going to worry me with this horse. The scar on her knee? Tried jumping a 6ft panel as a yearling.... and she's 100% sound on it. I have the confidence that this horse can handle a few slips. |
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  Sock eating dog owner
Posts: 4557
Location: Where the pavement ends and the West begins Utah | Apply square in slow work. Not round. Don't ask,let us know if the light bulb turns on. Good luck. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 516
| SKM - 2017-04-19 4:32 PM
What I'm seeing is a horse that lacks a little confidence. In some ways, you've done a beautiful job. In other ways, you've sort of set this horse up to fail. You seem to rely more on your hands than your body. You are basically running into your turns and then you pull the horse around. You barely sit so you aren't giving the horse a chance to rate and turn before you are pulling. I would walk to my rate point forward in the saddle and two handed. When I get to that point, I would roll my butt back, sit down deep, say Whoa and let the horse have a chance to stop before I pulled on the reins. Then I would let the horse move forward, twist my torso, inside leg off, outside on and maybe slightly lift on the rein to help finish. Concentrate more on your body telling the horse where to go and less on your hands forcing the turns.You've taken the snap out by making the horse anticipate the snatch on the mouth. Your horse WANTS to turn. Stop trying to force it and just let the horse work by using your body and feet.
On second, JMHO but you are starting your turn too soon and making your pocket too big. I'd drive straight across the pen, about 3' off the barrel, hold the horse straight until between his shoulder and my leg was even with the barrel, then let him turn. That gives you three strides around second instead of the five or six you are currently doing.
Also, not sure why you were loping through the pattern in the slop?? As slick as it was, practicing in that is a good way to injure one or take all the try out of them. Again, JMO.
These videos are a few years old. But they show what I'm talking about on second.
https://youtu.be/GCwVyMLig5M
https://youtu.be/wpdjLr6JPhw
https://youtu.be/eBp7cRhq9Ps
I completely agree with this. You're riding with your hands when you really need to ride with your body. I think that would fix a lot of the issues you're having.
Take some lessons to get your muscle memory where it needs to be, that's going to help you the most.
Like SKM said, give the horse a chance to turn before you're pulling on them. If you give them that option, they'll start hunting the turn and WANT to turn and you'll never have to worry about blowing barrels. |
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 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | Eh, Red is still a "chunky" horse no matter what I do. Some are just like that. As long as you know you have her on a good exercise and diet plan; just have her as fit as you can.
We've talked about your 2nd barrel before.  And yes, it usually costs you a lot of time. I agree that you need to use your body more. I think Squiggs would be a lot faster if she was smooooother in her turns. He seems "choppy" and anytime you do that it loses momentum. If you need to rate your little speed demon, learn to use your seat. And be very steady and smooth with your direct rein. Just GUIDE her around the barrel; don't try to pull as that just creates that "choppy" movement.
Focus on having good clean patterns. No arcing into the turn, or arcs when you leave a turn. The more ground you have to cover, the more time you waste. Red's best runs are when he has "perfect" patterns. He might not be the fastest, so I have to focus on minimizing the amount of ground we need to cover.
In general, I think you usually come into your 2nd barrel TOO WIDE. I think Squiggs has the ability to really wrap around a barrel, so let her. Set your sights on your pocket, about 4 feet from the barrel. Based on the arena or how hard she is running will determine when you need to sit (sometimes sooner, sometimes later). Then just GUIDE her with your hand around the turn, use your legs, and "look" with your body (but not too soon, of course). Let her do the work -- just guide her.
As far as the snaffle, (in your slow work video), I think she does look happier in it. I used to run Red in a Jr. Cowhorse too and then I switched him a Little S and he likes that better. He too is very light and likes me to leave him alone.
On your run with the snaffle, again, it is going to be important for you to set her up right. Make sure you send her to that spot you need on your pocket. If you let her get too big of a pocket or too deep, you lose a lot of time. And use your body (seat and legs). Just guide with that hand. Also, I think your reins are too long.
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