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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 411
Location: Smack in the middle of WA! | I have a daughter of Rare Bar and I know he is a carrier and passes it on to female offspring. Is their anyway to test to see if the mare expresses the gene or if her foals are carriers? I don't know much about the large heart gene and would love to learn more!  | |
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| In long distance horses it might be an advantage. Other than that, I don't really think it has very much merit. Personally, I am looking for a horse with quick speed that can turn. I have two mares (full sisters)that I am almost sure carry the large heart gene but could not care less. They both have Secretariat on top and Seabiscuit on the bottom along with some other sires that carry the large heart gene. Kissyourmoneygoodbye is on all breed. I can assure that the large heart gene has not made them what they are. | |
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| Here is the link to a really neat article that was written about the large heart gene, and it has a list of some of the top producing stallions that carried/carry the gene.
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
It's pretty cool to read about why some stallions were prolific broodmare sires, especially ones that had the large heart gene, and it makes a lot of sense with horses like Secretariat, and why most of his male offspring weren't as successful as he was, and why his daughters were great producers, because they pass the gene on. It also makes sense why on appendix horses, TB mares are generally "preferred", when crossed with certain QH stallions (that have been found to be large heart carriers).
Here is part of the large heart gene horse list from that website:
A Classic Dash
Aforethought (TB)
Alamitos Bar
Azure Te (TB)
Beduino (TB)
Bugs Alive In 75
Calyx
Chicaro Bill
Chicks Beduino
Dash For Cash
Dash Thru Traffic
David Cox
Depth Charge (TB)
Diamond Charge
Dividend
Double Devil
Easy Jet
First Down Dash
Go Man Go
Hempen (TB)
Holland Ease
Jackstraw (TB)
Jet Smooth
Jonny Apollo
Lake Erie (TB)
Leo
Little Request (TB)
Merridoc
Mito Paint (TB)
Moolah Bux (TB)
Moon Deck
Pass ’Em Up (TB)
Piggin String (TB)
Raise Your Glass (TB)
Rare Bar
Rare Form
Rocket Wrangler
Ronas Ryon
Royal Quick Dash
Special Effort
Spotted Bull (TB)
Streakin Six
Takin On The Cash
Texas Dancer (TB)
The Signature
Three Bargains
Three Bars (TB)
Three Chicks
Three Oh’s
Tiny Charger
Top Deck (TB)
My husband and I just talked about this last week, it's definitely fascinating!
There's also a new genetic test in TBs that can tell you what type of "speed gene profile" the stallions have, and if they are sprinters, middle distance or staying types.
Here is a link to that as well: https://www.plusvital.com/equine-genetics/genetic-tests/speed-gene-t...
Equine genetics are pretty awesome, and it is so much fun to read about what has been learned, and where we can go from here.
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Posts: 12842
| madredepeanut - 2017-09-09 9:27 PM
Here is the link to a really neat article that was written about the large heart gene, and it has a list of some of the top producing stallions that carried/carry the gene.
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
It's pretty cool to read about why some stallions were prolific broodmare sires, especially ones that had the large heart gene, and it makes a lot of sense with horses like Secretariat, and why most of his male offspring weren't as successful as he was, and why his daughters were great producers, because they pass the gene on. It also makes sense why on appendix horses, TB mares are generally "preferred", when crossed with certain QH stallions (that have been found to be large heart carriers ).
Here is part of the large heart gene horse list from that website:
A Classic Dash
Aforethought (TB )
Alamitos Bar
Azure Te (TB )
Beduino (TB )
Bugs Alive In 75
Calyx
Chicaro Bill
Chicks Beduino
Dash For Cash
Dash Thru Traffic
David Cox
Depth Charge (TB )
Diamond Charge
Dividend
Double Devil
Easy Jet
First Down Dash
Go Man Go
Hempen (TB )
Holland Ease
Jackstraw (TB )
Jet Smooth
Jonny Apollo
Lake Erie (TB )
Leo
Little Request (TB )
Merridoc
Mito Paint (TB )
Moolah Bux (TB )
Moon Deck
Pass ’Em Up (TB )
Piggin String (TB )
Raise Your Glass (TB )
Rare Bar
Rare Form
Rocket Wrangler
Ronas Ryon
Royal Quick Dash
Special Effort
Spotted Bull (TB )
Streakin Six
Takin On The Cash
Texas Dancer (TB )
The Signature
Three Bargains
Three Bars (TB )
Three Chicks
Three Oh’s
Tiny Charger
Top Deck (TB )
My husband and I just talked about this last week, it's definitely fascinating!
There's also a new genetic test in TBs that can tell you what type of "speed gene profile" the stallions have, and if they are sprinters, middle distance or staying types.
Here is a link to that as well: https://www.plusvital.com/equine-genetics/genetic-tests/speed-gene-t...
Equine genetics are pretty awesome, and it is so much fun to read about what has been learned, and where we can go from here.
If you look at my mare's pedigree she has Aforethought and First Down Dash on her pedigree also. Several others on that list. She is a top 1D horse but that large heart gene did not make her 1D. What I am saying is that if your horse doesn't have the large heart gene you can forget it being a 1D horse. | |
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Posts: 12842
| Here is another one of my mares. Perrys Dimples Dash who goes back to Streakin Six, First Down Dash, full sister to First Down Dash, Pass Em Up. She is one of my broodmares. We have a joke that her racing career was ended early when she got hit by the water truck. I think I can say that large heart gene did not help her. | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | madredepeanut - 2017-09-09 9:27 PM
Here is the link to a really neat article that was written about the large heart gene, and it has a list of some of the top producing stallions that carried/carry the gene.
http://www.horsesonly.com/crossroads/xfactor/heart-1.htm
It's pretty cool to read about why some stallions were prolific broodmare sires, especially ones that had the large heart gene, and it makes a lot of sense with horses like Secretariat, and why most of his male offspring weren't as successful as he was, and why his daughters were great producers, because they pass the gene on. It also makes sense why on appendix horses, TB mares are generally "preferred", when crossed with certain QH stallions (that have been found to be large heart carriers ).
Here is part of the large heart gene horse list from that website:
A Classic Dash
Aforethought (TB )
Alamitos Bar
Azure Te (TB )
Beduino (TB )
Bugs Alive In 75
Calyx
Chicaro Bill
Chicks Beduino
Dash For Cash
Dash Thru Traffic
David Cox
Depth Charge (TB )
Diamond Charge
Dividend
Double Devil
Easy Jet
First Down Dash
Go Man Go
Hempen (TB )
Holland Ease
Jackstraw (TB )
Jet Smooth
Jonny Apollo
Lake Erie (TB )
Leo
Little Request (TB )
Merridoc
Mito Paint (TB )
Moolah Bux (TB )
Moon Deck
Pass ’Em Up (TB )
Piggin String (TB )
Raise Your Glass (TB )
Rare Bar
Rare Form
Rocket Wrangler
Ronas Ryon
Royal Quick Dash
Special Effort
Spotted Bull (TB )
Streakin Six
Takin On The Cash
Texas Dancer (TB )
The Signature
Three Bargains
Three Bars (TB )
Three Chicks
Three Oh’s
Tiny Charger
Top Deck (TB )
My husband and I just talked about this last week, it's definitely fascinating!
There's also a new genetic test in TBs that can tell you what type of "speed gene profile" the stallions have, and if they are sprinters, middle distance or staying types.
Here is a link to that as well: https://www.plusvital.com/equine-genetics/genetic-tests/speed-gene-t...
Equine genetics are pretty awesome, and it is so much fun to read about what has been learned, and where we can go from here.
Very interesting, thanks for those links. | |
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| streakysox - 2017-09-09 8:30 PM
Here is another one of my mares. Perrys Dimples Dash who goes back to Streakin Six, First Down Dash, full sister to First Down Dash, Pass Em Up. She is one of my broodmares. We have a joke that her racing career was ended early when she got hit by the water truck. I think I can say that large heart gene did not help her.
I'm not saying the large heart gene will automatically make your horse a winner, you can breed the best of the best and get a punk. Or run some backyard bred grade horse and win it all. I just find it really interesting learning more about equine genetics.
You say she is in your broodmare band, what kind of foals does she produce? There must be a reason you keep her around, and I'm guessing it's not the large heart gene  but she must out-produce herself, and it could very well be a number of reasons, one of which *might possibly* be *somehow* linked to that gene. Or not. But I still find it really neat!
Edited by madredepeanut 2017-09-09 11:06 PM
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Posts: 12842
| madredepeanut - 2017-09-09 11:03 PM
streakysox - 2017-09-09 8:30 PM
Here is another one of my mares. Perrys Dimples Dash who goes back to Streakin Six, First Down Dash, full sister to First Down Dash, Pass Em Up. She is one of my broodmares. We have a joke that her racing career was ended early when she got hit by the water truck. I think I can say that large heart gene did not help her.
I'm not saying the large heart gene will automatically make your horse a winner, you can breed the best of the best and get a punk. Or run some backyard bred grade horse and win it all. I just find it really interesting learning more about equine genetics.
You say she is in your broodmare band, what kind of foals does she produce? There must be a reason you keep her around, and I'm guessing it's not the large heart gene but she must out-produce herself, and it could very well be a number of reasons, one of which *might possibly* be *somehow* linked to that gene. Or not. But I still find it really neat!
The large heart gene is more important for long distance horses. I bought the mare late 2016. She was bred this spring. I did not buy her to race or for a barrel horse. I bought her because I like her breeding. She is built the way I like and I feel like I will get the kind of horse I like. I know enough to figure out that she was hurt before she ever raced. | |
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| streakysox - 2017-09-09 10:36 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-09-09 11:03 PM
streakysox - 2017-09-09 8:30 PM
Here is another one of my mares. Perrys Dimples Dash who goes back to Streakin Six, First Down Dash, full sister to First Down Dash, Pass Em Up. She is one of my broodmares. We have a joke that her racing career was ended early when she got hit by the water truck. I think I can say that large heart gene did not help her.
I'm not saying the large heart gene will automatically make your horse a winner, you can breed the best of the best and get a punk. Or run some backyard bred grade horse and win it all. I just find it really interesting learning more about equine genetics.
You say she is in your broodmare band, what kind of foals does she produce? There must be a reason you keep her around, and I'm guessing it's not the large heart gene but she must out-produce herself, and it could very well be a number of reasons, one of which *might possibly* be *somehow* linked to that gene. Or not. But I still find it really neat!
The large heart gene is more important for long distance horses. I bought the mare late 2016. She was bred this spring. I did not buy her to race or for a barrel horse. I bought her because I like her breeding. She is built the way I like and I feel like I will get the kind of horse I like. I know enough to figure out that she was hurt before she ever raced.
Well that's really all that matters then  | |
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Go Get Em!
Posts: 13503
Location: OH. IO | madredepeanut - 2017-09-10 4:07 AM
streakysox - 2017-09-09 10:36 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-09-09 11:03 PM
streakysox - 2017-09-09 8:30 PM
Here is another one of my mares. Perrys Dimples Dash who goes back to Streakin Six, First Down Dash, full sister to First Down Dash, Pass Em Up. She is one of my broodmares. We have a joke that her racing career was ended early when she got hit by the water truck. I think I can say that large heart gene did not help her.
I'm not saying the large heart gene will automatically make your horse a winner, you can breed the best of the best and get a punk. Or run some backyard bred grade horse and win it all. I just find it really interesting learning more about equine genetics.
You say she is in your broodmare band, what kind of foals does she produce? There must be a reason you keep her around, and I'm guessing it's not the large heart gene but she must out-produce herself, and it could very well be a number of reasons, one of which *might possibly* be *somehow* linked to that gene. Or not. But I still find it really neat!
The large heart gene is more important for long distance horses. I bought the mare late 2016. She was bred this spring. I did not buy her to race or for a barrel horse. I bought her because I like her breeding. She is built the way I like and I feel like I will get the kind of horse I like. I know enough to figure out that she was hurt before she ever raced.
Well that's really all that matters then
It is interesting to read and learn stuff like this.thank you for taking the time to post for people who like to learn;) | |
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The Advice Guru
Posts: 6419
| Vets can tell by ecg if they have a large heart.
There are a few horses that are suspect, or have been confirmed to have large hearts.
Judge cash is a suspect
Dashing cleat was confirmed large heart.
I find my large heart horses recover faster, are grittier, higher pain tolerance, and even sprinting have better wind capacity then my non large heart horses. | |
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My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | One of the most interesting threads we've had in awhile. Very neat. | |
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| jake16 - 2017-09-10 6:16 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-09-10 4:07 AM
streakysox - 2017-09-09 10:36 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-09-09 11:03 PM
streakysox - 2017-09-09 8:30 PM
Here is another one of my mares. Perrys Dimples Dash who goes back to Streakin Six, First Down Dash, full sister to First Down Dash, Pass Em Up. She is one of my broodmares. We have a joke that her racing career was ended early when she got hit by the water truck. I think I can say that large heart gene did not help her.
I'm not saying the large heart gene will automatically make your horse a winner, you can breed the best of the best and get a punk. Or run some backyard bred grade horse and win it all. I just find it really interesting learning more about equine genetics.
You say she is in your broodmare band, what kind of foals does she produce? There must be a reason you keep her around, and I'm guessing it's not the large heart gene but she must out-produce herself, and it could very well be a number of reasons, one of which *might possibly* be *somehow* linked to that gene. Or not. But I still find it really neat!
The large heart gene is more important for long distance horses. I bought the mare late 2016. She was bred this spring. I did not buy her to race or for a barrel horse. I bought her because I like her breeding. She is built the way I like and I feel like I will get the kind of horse I like. I know enough to figure out that she was hurt before she ever raced.
Well that's really all that matters then
It is interesting to read and learn stuff like this.thank you for taking the time to post for people who like to learn; )
Absolutely! I think it is so cool to learn about bloodlines and genetics, so I figured I would pass some info along!
When we start delving in to why certain crosses "mesh" better than others, why some are tried and true, and why some just plain do NOT mix, it is really neat to look at the genes and the genetic reasons why/how heart, grit, athletic abilities, and mind affect horses differently. | |
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 Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | There is an entire book on this subject if anyone is interested called The X Factor: What it is and How to Find It by Marianna Haun. She is the one who did a lot of the initial research.
Interesting article about the lady who tracked the info down. http://www.drf.com/news/simon-haun-took-x-factor-nth-degree | |
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 Coyote Country Queen
Posts: 5666
| Whenever I have spare time (which lately seems to be never!), I like to trace pedigrees linked to the large heart gene. While I agree that being a carrier of the gene isn't going to guarantee a 1D horse, I do think that if you look at the list of runners who were performers and producers you will see that the "big" names are there, and I think they are there for a reason. It's not the whole equation, but it definitely plays a role. | |
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Member
Posts: 41
| oija - 2017-09-11 9:13 AM
There is an entire book on this subject if anyone is interested called The X Factor: What it is and How to Find It by Marianna Haun. She is the one who did a lot of the initial research.
Interesting article about the lady who tracked the info down. http://www.drf.com/news/simon-haun-took-x-factor-nth-degree
Thank you for sharing! What a great article about the author of those 3 books on the x-factor. I will have to read them now. I also thought this part was interesting:
"And she discovered another important genetic and physical trait: Some of the Darley Arabian male line horses have only 16 ribs and five lumbar vertebrae instead of the usual 18 ribs and six lumbar vertebrae found in a normal Thoroughbred, including the Eclipse line. She noted that this skeletal frame was shared by some of the greatest racehorses – Lexington, St. Simon, Phar Lap, Hyperion, Sysonby, Secretariat, and A.P. Indy – and off she went pursuing that theory. She had to find photos of skeletal remains from museums around the world to count ribs. If I had a nickel for every time she called about a discovery about successful horses carrying this trait …" | |
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| oija - 2017-09-11 7:13 AM
There is an entire book on this subject if anyone is interested called The X Factor: What it is and How to Find It by Marianna Haun. She is the one who did a lot of the initial research.
Interesting article about the lady who tracked the info down. http://www.drf.com/news/simon-haun-took-x-factor-nth-degree
Thank you for telling us about the book! I would love to read it!! | |
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| Jenbabe - 2017-09-11 1:32 PM
Whenever I have spare time (which lately seems to be never!), I like to trace pedigrees linked to the large heart gene. While I agree that being a carrier of the gene isn't going to guarantee a 1D horse, I do think that if you look at the list of runners who were performers and producers you will see that the "big" names are there, and I think they are there for a reason. It's not the whole equation, but it definitely plays a role.
That sounds like an awesome way to spend some free time!
I agree with you on your thinking "it's not the whole equation, but it definitely plays a role". There are a lot of factors at play, but it's neat to think that, for example, horses with the large heart gene have more grit, more stamina, good dispositions and conformations, etc., and for generations breeders didn't realize they were breeding these powerhouses (genetically speaking), they were breeding for those other factors and now we have research and scientific evidence (in the form of the large heart gene) to add even more accolades to our breeding forefathers! | |
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Location: NE Texas | hank520 - 2017-09-09 2:03 PM
I have a daughter of Rare Bar and I know he is a carrier and passes it on to female offspring. Is their anyway to test to see if the mare expresses the gene or if her foals are carriers? I don't know much about the large heart gene and would love to learn more!
I learned about this last year and had a lot of fun reading the articles and then researching horse lines... makes a work day fly by! lol
Thinking about ordering the books! | |
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Expert
Posts: 3782
Location: Gainesville, TX | For those interested in the book (I have a copy), they are rare and expensive.
https://www.amazon.com/Factor-Relationship-Inherited-Performance-199... | |
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