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Member
Posts: 33
| Hi everyone,
I’m not new to horses, but a bit new to the barrel world. I was just wondering what things you look for, and ask sellers when looking at an unstarted (yearling/early 2 year old) prospect? I’m looking at a potential futurity horse, that I’d like to rodeo eventually. Seeing as my riding horses tend to stay with me forever I’d like to find one that will be a competitive against tougher competition, especially if I’m going to spend the money to send it with a trainer for its futurity/derby years, but even for later in life when I get to run them.
Anyways, I figured with all the barrel racing experience this would be a good place to ask what you guys look for, and want to know about potential prospects before purchasing since it’s not an age I can get on them to try.
Thank you for any input. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
 
| Great question!! I just went thru this! I'll just add a couple of things, but I am sure you will get a lot of great advice here!
1) I narrow papers down to Future Fortunes enrolled horses. If you are really wanting to futurity check Triple Crown/VGBRA/5 States enrollment too depending on your location
2) I always ask for a video trotting. We've noticed that colts with a big animated trot with a lot of shoulder action up front and also a lot of drive (keep their hocks underneath them when trotting) translate to big strided, athletic horses.
3) I prefer more of a "racey" look- clean, thinner neck that ties in higher on the shoulders, nice big set to a shoulder with higher withers and short back/long underline, and a nice hip that ties in lower to the gaskin (keeps hocks up underneath them).
Edited by lopnaround 2017-10-19 11:08 AM
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 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
 
| Temperament, build, the way they move, proven record from parents or others with same breeding
Edited by rodeomom3 2017-10-19 11:10 AM
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| Great advice already given!! Love this place and all the help =] Agreed with above...something with good conformation (although on a yearling, can be somewhat difficult to tell). If you have a height preference, I'd do the string test just to see also! If I'm looking for a filly (me personally) I always look for something that's got some fire! In my experience, my better mares were all pretty fiery. The great thing about buying young, is there's usually no bad habits to break, haha! A lot of this is going to be personal preference...aside from buying a sound horse! Look for traits that you want in a barrel horse...I love the super short backed and long legged horses, so that's something I look for. Make sure their shoulder isn't straight, or it's going to be a choppy ride =p Good thing is, sounds like whatever you are buying will have a forever home, so no need to worry about smaller flaws or color choices, since you don't need a resale value =]
Edited by Katielovestbs 2017-10-19 11:35 AM
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | SMF - 2017-10-19 10:42 AM
Hi everyone,
I’m not new to horses, but a bit new to the barrel world. I was just wondering what things you look for, and ask sellers when looking at an unstarted (yearling/early 2 year old) prospect? I’m looking at a potential futurity horse, that I’d like to rodeo eventually. Seeing as my riding horses tend to stay with me forever I’d like to find one that will be a competitive against tougher competition, especially if I’m going to spend the money to send it with a trainer for its futurity/derby years, but even for later in life when I get to run them.
Anyways, I figured with all the barrel racing experience this would be a good place to ask what you guys look for, and want to know about potential prospects before purchasing since it’s not an age I can get on them to try.
Thank you for any input.
I'm not part of the advice committee (boy should you be thankful for THAT  ), but I'm real good on the welcoming committee---so just saying "hey, and welcome to becoming an official poster  | |
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 Saint Stacey
| Confirmation, balance, movement. I disagree with yearlings being hard to judge. Yearlings that are quality individuals and raised right don’t go through an ugly stage. They might get butt high for awhile, but angles of shoulders, pasterns, ratios of top line to bottom line, those never change.
I don’t want to hear footfalls. If a horse trots around, sounding like a Mack truck...I’d pass unless it was already proven. I want very little knee action. I want them to reach out in front and be deep hocked behind with a lot of split in the back legs when they lope. I want them to basically float with it being no effort.
I want a 1:2 back to underline ratio and a 1:2 bottom of the neck to the top of the neck ratio. I want a long sloping shoulder with a decent length humorous. Low hocks, long gaskin that is well muscles on the inside and outside, short cannons, thin pretty neck, stifle to stifle being the widest point when viewed from behind, big square hip, correctly angled pasterns that aren’t too short or too long. Big forearms.
Short, upright pasterns are a deal breaker for me. | |
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Member
Posts: 33
| Thank you very much everyone for your input so far, I really appreciate it! It’s nice to hear the little things in conformation, and movement that work well for barrel horses, but may not be a desired trait in other disciplines etc. And the specifics that some of you look for.
I definitely appreciate knowing which futurities to look into more also. The future fortunes seemed like a good program to me, I found one filly I really like that isn’t as far as I can tell (she was a bit out of what I had aside price wise so was trying to save up more before asking the owner more about her so I didn’t feel like I was wasting his time) so not sure if that’s worth being a deal breaker or not? Would it generally be for some people? Just curious.
I’m with you on being a mare person, Katie. I love my boys too(raise minis/Shetland/Hackney’s also), but my riding horses are all currently mares. :)
How heavily would you guys rate pedigree and performance of horses in it on an otherwise well built yearling? Especially with race horses.
I’ll use one of the horses I’m interested in as an example. So say you have a yearling who is out of a stallions first foal crop, so no offspring even of riding age yet to evaluate. He never barrel raced himself, but raced on the track and did pretty well (earnings of approx $416k). That being said he generally ran at 330 yards, and ran better near the end of his races that I was able to find and watch. As well as an article from his owner I found saying he would probably excel around 350 yards or races over the 330 yards. His dam also raced and had a successful career, while she had wins at 300, 350, and 400 yards they seemed to run her mostly at 400, and 440 yards. I know these aren’t long races, but also aren’t super short either. It’s entirely possible I’m over thinking things way too much, but do you take into account distances the parents and their parents were most successful at running say 220 yards vs 400 plus?
Sorry that was a bit long, but hope it makes sense as it was one of my thoughts today. The fillies dam side has several barrel horses, and the sires top side is corona cartel and from what I’ve seen they do well so I may be over analyzing. But figure so much comes into play and can go either way with babies that I would rather stack the cards more in my favor than against if possible. LOL :)
Also, thank you for the welcome “chandlers mom”!!
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | SKM - 2017-10-19 10:00 PM Confirmation, balance, movement. I disagree with yearlings being hard to judge. Yearlings that are quality individuals and raised right don’t go through an ugly stage. They might get butt high for awhile, but angles of shoulders, pasterns, ratios of top line to bottom line, those never change. I don’t want to hear footfalls. If a horse trots around, sounding like a Mack truck...I’d pass unless it was already proven. I want very little knee action. I want them to reach out in front and be deep hocked behind with a lot of split in the back legs when they lope. I want them to basically float with it being no effort. I want a 1:2 back to underline ratio and a 1:2 bottom of the neck to the top of the neck ratio. I want a long sloping shoulder with a decent length humorous. Low hocks, long gaskin that is well muscles on the inside and outside, short cannons, thin pretty neck, stifle to stifle being the widest point when viewed from behind, big square hip, correctly angled pasterns that aren’t too short or too long. Big forearms. Short, upright pasterns are a deal breaker for me.
so yours all have to be christian? | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 889
| 1DSoon - 2017-10-20 7:38 AM
SKM - 2017-10-19 10:00 PM Confirmation, balance, movement. I disagree with yearlings being hard to judge. Yearlings that are quality individuals and raised right don’t go through an ugly stage. They might get butt high for awhile, but angles of shoulders, pasterns, ratios of top line to bottom line, those never change. I don’t want to hear footfalls. If a horse trots around, sounding like a Mack truck...I’d pass unless it was already proven. I want very little knee action. I want them to reach out in front and be deep hocked behind with a lot of split in the back legs when they lope. I want them to basically float with it being no effort. I want a 1:2 back to underline ratio and a 1:2 bottom of the neck to the top of the neck ratio. I want a long sloping shoulder with a decent length humorous. Low hocks, long gaskin that is well muscles on the inside and outside, short cannons, thin pretty neck, stifle to stifle being the widest point when viewed from behind, big square hip, correctly angled pasterns that aren’t too short or too long. Big forearms. Short, upright pasterns are a deal breaker for me.
so yours all have to be christian?
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion. | |
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Location: Not Where I Want to Be | Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 1:24 PM Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion. as it relates to the OP's question directly.
This is the worst advice I have seen typed on this board in a good while.
Congrats.
Edit: fixed one finger typing typo
Edited by 1DSoon 2017-10-20 12:57 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| 1DSoon - 2017-10-20 11:38 AM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 1:24 PM Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion.
as it relates to the OP's question directly.
This is the worse advice I have seen typed on this board in a good while.
Congrats.
Aw, thank you very much =]
At least I'm good at something! Haha
Everyone has their own opinion here, and everyone is entitled to express it. You don't have to agree with everyone. Very broad range of people on here, haha.
Look at how many babies these racehorse studs have...and look how many are successful.
Edited by Katielovestbs 2017-10-20 12:54 PM
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  That's White "Man" to You
Posts: 5515
| I strongly encourage you to look hard at statistics. There are very few horses out there winning that don't have designer bloodlines, and that isn't by accident. Sometimes people get lucky with a grade horse, but I cant think of a single one in the top tier of competition. Many trainers won't even consider taking your horse if it isn't bred right, because they know how breeding can stack the deck in your favor. You've had some (mostly) good recommendations above.
In regards to your corona cartel lines question... there are very few making a splash in this pond.
If you are really going to spend $20-30K on training, start with the very best you can afford. | |
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 Elite Veteran
Posts: 824
Location: Duvall, WA | 1DSoon - 2017-10-20 10:38 AM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 1:24 PM Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion.
as it relates to the OP's question directly.
This is the worse advice I have seen typed on this board in a good while.
Congrats.
Ditto to 1DSoon, that was terrible advice. I think THE MOST important thing about a young prospect is bloodlines. Great horses produce great horses. Mediocre horses produce mediocre horses. And while that may not be 100% accurate, it is often enough that it would be foolish to disregard that fact when looking at youngsters. | |
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Expert
Posts: 1599
| SMF - 2017-10-19 9:38 PM Thank you very much everyone for your input so far, I really appreciate it! It’s nice to hear the little things in conformation, and movement that work well for barrel horses, but may not be a desired trait in other disciplines etc. And the specifics that some of you look for. I definitely appreciate knowing which futurities to look into more also. The future fortunes seemed like a good program to me, I found one filly I really like that isn’t as far as I can tell (she was a bit out of what I had aside price wise so was trying to save up more before asking the owner more about her so I didn’t feel like I was wasting his time) so not sure if that’s worth being a deal breaker or not? Would it generally be for some people? Just curious. I’m with you on being a mare person, Katie. I love my boys too(raise minis/Shetland/Hackney’s also), but my riding horses are all currently mares. :) How heavily would you guys rate pedigree and performance of horses in it on an otherwise well built yearling? Especially with race horses. I’ll use one of the horses I’m interested in as an example. So say you have a yearling who is out of a stallions first foal crop, so no offspring even of riding age yet to evaluate. He never barrel raced himself, but raced on the track and did pretty well (earnings of approx $416k). That being said he generally ran at 330 yards, and ran better near the end of his races that I was able to find and watch. As well as an article from his owner I found saying he would probably excel around 350 yards or races over the 330 yards. His dam also raced and had a successful career, while she had wins at 300, 350, and 400 yards they seemed to run her mostly at 400, and 440 yards. I know these aren’t long races, but also aren’t super short either. It’s entirely possible I’m over thinking things way too much, but do you take into account distances the parents and their parents were most successful at running say 220 yards vs 400 plus? Sorry that was a bit long, but hope it makes sense as it was one of my thoughts today. The fillies dam side has several barrel horses, and the sires top side is corona cartel and from what I’ve seen they do well so I may be over analyzing. But figure so much comes into play and can go either way with babies that I would rather stack the cards more in my favor than against if possible. LOL :) Also, thank you for the welcome “chandlers mom”!! Your distance question is a good one- I wonder that too! I guess from what I have seen: Higher SI of sire = higher stud fee= higher baby value.
Mr Jess Perry horses are making pretty nice futurity horses it seems. I have a GD of Corona Cartel, my friend has a GD of CC, and neither of these mares have the brain to have made futurity horses lol. PYC horses seem to be strong and very good minded, and some of his junior sires are now FF too. I am getting one of those some day! Again- if you're going to futurity make sure the colt ur looking at is nominated to FF and others.
If you look at the top sellers at the BFA or the sires of the top BFA Juvenile/Futurity horses, you will see Frenchaman's Guy, BHR Frenchie's Socks, A Smooth Guy, Some Mr Jess Perry, Tres Seis, JL Dash Ta Heaven, of course Dash Ta Fame/A Streak of Fling. French StreaktoVegas seems to be a nice up and coming sire too.
ETA: There are so many good sales going on now- Triangle FF sale next Sunday, BFA sale in December, and more I am sure. Know those catalogs and check prices and that will help you a ton!
Edited by lopnaround 2017-10-20 1:06 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 277
| Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 12:40 PM
1DSoon - 2017-10-20 11:38 AM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 1:24 PM Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion.
as it relates to the OP's question directly.
This is the worse advice I have seen typed on this board in a good while.
Congrats.
Aw, thank you very much =]
At least I'm good at something! Haha
Everyone has their own opinion here, and everyone is entitled to express it. You don't have to agree with everyone. Very broad range of people on here, haha.
Look at how many babies these racehorse studs have...and look how many are successful.
I don't think your advice was bad. I lean away from "name brands" also. I like old blood. I am probably a horrible human being for saying that also.  | |
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I Am a Snake Killer
Posts: 1927
Location: Golden Gulf Coast of Texas | I agree with the comment look at the stats! Also, when u find one you really like X-ray the hell out of them. I’m on my third prospect that had issues when I bought them that would have showed up on X-rays. I finally learned that lesson. | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 460
| Meep.Meep - 2017-10-20 2:40 PM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 12:40 PM
1DSoon - 2017-10-20 11:38 AM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 1:24 PM Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion.
as it relates to the OP's question directly.
This is the worse advice I have seen typed on this board in a good while.
Congrats.
Aw, thank you very much =]
At least I'm good at something! Haha
Everyone has their own opinion here, and everyone is entitled to express it. You don't have to agree with everyone. Very broad range of people on here, haha.
Look at how many babies these racehorse studs have...and look how many are successful.
I don't think your advice was bad. I lean away from "name brands" also. I like old blood. I am probably a horrible human being for saying that also.
Thank you  | |
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 Queen Bee Cat Owner
Posts: 3629
Location: Way up North | Lots of good advice already but JMO, for what it's worth, I would lean towards picking prospects that have bloodlines that are known to have the turn style I like. It can be the fastest horse out there but if it can't turn or it has a turn style that doesn't match what you like it's going to be an uphill battle. I'd watch videos of the futurities I want to run at and see which horses and winning and what their style is like and then bloodlines. If I was spending the money on a futurity prospect I would also look into what futurities are in my area or that I plan to attend and make sure the stallion is paid in/nominated. | |
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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 357
| Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 4:18 PM
Meep.Meep - 2017-10-20 2:40 PM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 12:40 PM
1DSoon - 2017-10-20 11:38 AM
Katielovestbs - 2017-10-20 1:24 PM Also, welcome SMF!!! Forgot to say that =] Just as a personal preference, I do not care a single bit about pedigree or what their parents did...except I do check lineage for known diseases (hypp, etc.) But I'll use the over-used saying "you can't ride the papers" haha. 90% of the time, the best bred horses do not fill their parents shoes! Half of my stock through the years has been grade, haha. And most of the time, my grade, or plain jane bred horses have been much better than my well bred barrel horses. I just look at each horse as an individual =] That wouldn't bother me one bit to be out of an unproven stud, sounds like he has speed anyway! But in my opinion, if the baby is bred real racey, I would just make sure they don't have a sensitive mind, so you can control them in the pen. You don't always see the fastest horse winning the race, it's the smoothest! As long as she listens well, she'll stop the clock =] Just my opinion.
as it relates to the OP's question directly.
This is the worse advice I have seen typed on this board in a good while.
Congrats.
Aw, thank you very much =]
At least I'm good at something! Haha
Everyone has their own opinion here, and everyone is entitled to express it. You don't have to agree with everyone. Very broad range of people on here, haha.
Look at how many babies these racehorse studs have...and look how many are successful.
I don't think your advice was bad. I lean away from "name brands" also. I like old blood. I am probably a horrible human being for saying that also.
Thank you
I agree with you both also.. we have had some top of the line bred horses and keeping them sound was always a project . (Mind and body).It was always something with them. My family’s joke now when horse shopping is “I want the ugliest and junk bred horse out there, if it is pretty I don’t want it.” Those have been the best horses I have had the privilege of running. | |
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