|
|
Expert
Posts: 1477
  
Location: In the land of peanuts and cotton | My 4 year old niece is ready to start riding. She’s going to ride my senior gelding. I already ran him in a hackamor because he’s more of a free runner. I wanted to have enough control but not get in his way. I rode during the week in a twisted wire O ring and he could get a little tough mouthed. What’s something good that she’ll be able to control him but not too much so that if she snatched he won’t freak out? Obviously she’s going to be leadline for a while but I’m still going to give her reins with a bit so she can learn on her own.
Also what’s everyone opinion on magic seats? I’ve always not liked them unless you have a physical reason to use one. I never felt they actually taught the child/person to actually ride. Just to sit there while it holds you on and once it’s removed their clueless and scarred. BUT with her only being 4 is it even physically possible for her to balance and hold her self on? |
|
| |
|
 Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
  
| On the bit, maybe a long shank Josey Million Dollar bit. She is not strong enoug to hurt the horse but needs plenty of leverage for a tiny child. I used to ride in a Magic Seat but only needed it on one horse. Sold that horse. Martha Josey rides with a Magic Seat and has for years. Yes, you do come off. Josey Ranch Store has both so one stop shopping. I suggest a helmet also. They have some really cute kids helmets now. |
|
| |
|
 Shelter Dog Lover
Posts: 10277
| A magic seat does help you stay in the saddle but you still have the feel and are able to learn. I used one when learning to ride and it actually helped me feel what sitting right was suppose to feel like. That said, I weigh 155 lbs and the velcro would release if I bounced too much, I never felt in danger but a small child does not have the weight to make them release like they do for an adult. I am not going to use one for my grandson, he will stay on his pony and stay slow till he can ride a bigger horse safely without one. |
|
| |
|
Take a Picture
Posts: 12842
| I have seen a small child come off also. Magic seats a very popular around here for kids. |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 113
Location: Tx | Bit wise I would also suggest a nice combo bit. If the horse is finished and has been ridden in both a bit and a hack, a small child's hands (with the appropriate rein length) will not be a problem. My daughter just turned 6 last week and she runs in a reinsman 904 combo twisted dogbone and her and the horse both work awesome in it. We have tried to bring her down off of that bit but her horse is a little more free runner (they are high loping a pattern) and she will run off with her in a hack and wont turn well for her in the other bits we tried.
Magic seat wise, my daughter hated using hers. I was like you in the way I thought they should be used, but she was ready to step up last year and I was afraid, so I put her in one. She begged for me to take it off! I think if the child can sit up and hang on and you are only doing leadline for now, wait and don't use a gadget that they dont absolutely need. We don't use rubberbands on her feet and we dont strap her stirrups forward to keep her feet forward. As long as she isn't needing help in those areas, I won't provide assistance. Less is more. |
|
| |
|
Expert
Posts: 1586
Location: west of East Texas | I would use the same bit for leadline that she'll be using when she goes on her own. That way you'll be able to see how both she and the horse get along with that. When DD1 was 9 (3rd year riding), she went from high loping the pattern to running the pattern on a real barrel horse, she used the short shank million dollar bit that I was using on that horse. I felt like she needed a little more, so switched to the long shank. Never changed out of it because the kid got older and used her hands less. Horse was didn't care - light hands and all. Then DD2 took over that horse when she was 7 (4th year riding) and smaller than the average 5yo. She was a daredevil and several times I wished she had a magic seat. Through no fault of the horse, Chase would sometimes pop up and there would be so much air.... she didn't care if she was just hanging on by the saddle horn, she was all 'go'. By this time, the horse could have been in a haystring, she kept her speed exactly where the kid needed it at the time so I just stayed with what the horse was used to.
?I will add that both these girls started at horseshows with well behaved show horses, then started loping these show horses around the speed events, then moved to a real speed horse. One peice of advice I got was "I would rather put too much bit in horse's mouth and the kid not need it than too little bit and the kid get scared." |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 682
Location: Northwest | chasendacash - 2017-11-05 6:52 PM I would use the same bit for leadline that she'll be using when she goes on her own. That way you'll be able to see how both she and the horse get along with that. When DD1 was 9 (3rd year riding), she went from high loping the pattern to running the pattern on a real barrel horse, she used the short shank million dollar bit that I was using on that horse. I felt like she needed a little more, so switched to the long shank. Never changed out of it because the kid got older and used her hands less. Horse was didn't care - light hands and all. Then DD2 took over that horse when she was 7 (4th year riding) and smaller than the average 5yo. She was a daredevil and several times I wished she had a magic seat. Through no fault of the horse, Chase would sometimes pop up and there would be so much air.... she didn't care if she was just hanging on by the saddle horn, she was all 'go'. By this time, the horse could have been in a haystring, she kept her speed exactly where the kid needed it at the time so I just stayed with what the horse was used to.
?I will add that both these girls started at horseshows with well behaved show horses, then started loping these show horses around the speed events, then moved to a real speed horse. One peice of advice I got was "I would rather put too much bit in horse's mouth and the kid not need it than too little bit and the kid get scared."
This is what I was told too by an excellent barrel trainer. She’d been around enough kids and barrel horses to know exactly what she was talking about. |
|
| |
|
 Born not Made
Posts: 2937
Location: North Dakota | TessBelle - 2017-11-05 6:32 PM My 4 year old niece is ready to start riding. She’s going to ride my senior gelding. I already ran him in a hackamor because he’s more of a free runner. I wanted to have enough control but not get in his way. I rode during the week in a twisted wire O ring and he could get a little tough mouthed. What’s something good that she’ll be able to control him but not too much so that if she snatched he won’t freak out? Obviously she’s going to be leadline for a while but I’m still going to give her reins with a bit so she can learn on her own. Also what’s everyone opinion on magic seats? I’ve always not liked them unless you have a physical reason to use one. I never felt they actually taught the child/person to actually ride. Just to sit there while it holds you on and once it’s removed their clueless and scarred. BUT with her only being 4 is it even physically possible for her to balance and hold her self on?
I agree that I would "bit up" a horse more for a small child. Remember that they aren't as strong as you.
Plus, when you have the horse is a good bit that they can be super soft in, the child learns right off the bat that the horse will listen to them with a light touch. The goal being to never put the child in a situation where they have to actually pull.
As far as a magic seat, I say NO. Let the kid learn to ride. Yes, a 4-year-old can balance and hold themselves on.
|
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 277
| Both my kids ride their horses in hackamores. I wouldn't put them on something that I felt I needed to put a big bit on them for control. When I see kids with horses in big bits and tight tie downs I question if that kid is ready to be riding alone/riding that horse. The 4 yr old is going to be on lead line, so why would you need to put a big bit on the horse?
And no, a 4 yr old doesn't have the strength nor the balance to stay on if something out of the ordinary happens. Hence the reason my kids won't be "running" barrels until they are 10. They are learning to ride correctly and at their own pace at home. You see so many kids develop terrible habits that they carry on to adulthood. |
|
| |
|
 Straight Shooter
Posts: 5725
Location: SW North Dakota | Meep.Meep - 2017-11-06 8:09 AM Both my kids ride their horses in hackamores. I wouldn't put them on something that I felt I needed to put a big bit on them for control. When I see kids with horses in big bits and tight tie downs I question if that kid is ready to be riding alone/riding that horse. The 4 yr old is going to be on lead line, so why would you need to put a big bit on the horse? And no, a 4 yr old doesn't have the strength nor the balance to stay on if something out of the ordinary happens. Hence the reason my kids won't be "running" barrels until they are 10. They are learning to ride correctly and at their own pace at home. You see so many kids develop terrible habits that they carry on to adulthood.
My daughter was a fearless little beast. Everyone makes choices that are "right" for them, but I kept my kids "undermounted" while they were little. She always wanted to GO FAST, but my choice was to keep her safe and having fun. The horse in this video stepped up and fit her well until she was 10.
Here they are when she was 5...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6THbkLbbZ4
And here they are when she was 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyJnHjv3awc
When she stepped up to a "real" barrel horse (a half sister to the roan gelding in the videos), she was confident and correct. The mare was fairly strong, so I put her in an Elliott Combo with 7" cheeks. She had plenty of control and stayed in that bit until she was 12 or 13, then backed off to a shorter shanked Elliott with the same mouth but no noseband. At age 14, with the same mare, she was in an Ed Wright medium shank with a slow twist dogbone and was Reserve World Champ pole bender at the National Junior High Finals.
I know there are a lot of schools of thought on kids in speed events, but my theory was to let them have fun, stay safe and learn solid fundamentals. They have the whole rest of their lives to WIN!
JMHO and I'm not hatin' on people who overmount their little kids. |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 214
| For the magic seat question our littles will not be using one. Like another poster said we will be keeping our girls undermounted until they are ready for the next step up horse and can handle it on their own. I have never personally been around a magic seat but the idea of strapping my little one on is scary to me even if they are on some 3 legged old pony who has never done a thing wrong in his life. Something like a trip that turns into a fall at even a walk, without something holding my girls in they COULD be thrown clear on the fall down, strapped on I feel like they would be stuck for the ride and possibly landed on. Our oldest will be 3 in a couple weeks she is currently leadline trotting and of course she wants to go "faster" but neither of us are ready for faster or her to be riding solo without a leadline firmly in mommy's grip! (and she is on an ancient, great LITTLE pony) |
|
| |
|
Queen Bean of Ponyland
Posts: 24955
Location: WYOMING | Magic seats scare me. |
|
| |
|
 Veteran
Posts: 194
Location: Texas | my 3 year old wears a magic seat, she is still leadline on her pony. My husband and I have both been around rodeo our whole lives and never wore one. I still choose to put one on her to teach her to sit square in her saddle or if her pony shook real hard it helps her from being shook off. She wears a size xsmall in it and it does not have a huge grip on it she can raise her legs and it will come undone. It doesn't "stick" as much as people think. her little leg is not big at all so it doesn't have a lot of Velcro to attach from on the little bitty strap that goes around her leg it just basically keeps her stable and sitting even in her saddle and not going side to side.... |
|
| |
|
Member
Posts: 36
| The best thing for a little one learning to ride, or for a grown one learning to ride is the right kind of horse. The combo bit should work, teaching them soft hands. I agree with not "over-mounting" anyone. They need to learn with a calm, gentle horse who will take care of them, then step up as their abilities and confidence increases. My daughter is 9, and doesn't like to go fast, so she stays on Shorty, who is pretty much bomb-proof. when she gets ready to ride a horse with more juice, I will gratefully go on to another horse, and let her have mine.
Magic seats are DANGEROUS. I personally know of two people who have been seriously injured when their horses fell. One has never returned to riding, to my knowledge. I have always thought they were a gimmick, designed for someone who doesn't know how to ride so they can ride a horse that is not way out of their league. Unless you have a physical reason to be riding with one, DON'T.
I think magic seats should only be used under certain very extreme circumstances, and should be against the rules in any organization unless needed by a person with a physical disability.
And to further **** everyone off, starfishers need to LEARN TO RIDE!!! |
|
| |
|
Veteran
Posts: 277
| ND3canAddict - 2017-11-06 12:22 PM Meep.Meep - 2017-11-06 8:09 AM Both my kids ride their horses in hackamores. I wouldn't put them on something that I felt I needed to put a big bit on them for control. When I see kids with horses in big bits and tight tie downs I question if that kid is ready to be riding alone/riding that horse. The 4 yr old is going to be on lead line, so why would you need to put a big bit on the horse? And no, a 4 yr old doesn't have the strength nor the balance to stay on if something out of the ordinary happens. Hence the reason my kids won't be "running" barrels until they are 10. They are learning to ride correctly and at their own pace at home. You see so many kids develop terrible habits that they carry on to adulthood. My daughter was a fearless little beast. Everyone makes choices that are "right" for them, but I kept my kids "undermounted" while they were little. She always wanted to GO FAST, but my choice was to keep her safe and having fun. The horse in this video stepped up and fit her well until she was 10.
Here they are when she was 5...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6THbkLbbZ4
And here they are when she was 9
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyJnHjv3awc
When she stepped up to a "real" barrel horse (a half sister to the roan gelding in the videos ), she was confident and correct. The mare was fairly strong, so I put her in an Elliott Combo with 7" cheeks. She had plenty of control and stayed in that bit until she was 12 or 13, then backed off to a shorter shanked Elliott with the same mouth but no noseband. At age 14, with the same mare, she was in an Ed Wright medium shank with a slow twist dogbone and was Reserve World Champ pole bender at the National Junior High Finals.
I know there are a lot of schools of thought on kids in speed events, but my theory was to let them have fun, stay safe and learn solid fundamentals. They have the whole rest of their lives to WIN!
JMHO and I'm not hatin' on people who overmount their little kids.
 |
|
| |
|
 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Yes 4 year olds can learn to sit a horse and do it very well. I won’t use a magic seat for my kids, but it’s none of my business if others make a different choice. |
|
| |
|
 Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| I think one thing to consider is if the horse will come down for a little person. Just because they are old, doesn't mean they are kid friendly. A bit won't change much if you have a frightened kid and a horse who's taking advantage of them, because they kid won't be able to use it!
Most 4yo I know are able to balance and stay on a horse while going slow. Trotting is sometimes iffy. A magic seat would probably be ok. |
|
| |
|
Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | Nateracer - 2017-11-06 2:03 PM I think one thing to consider is if the horse will come down for a little person. Just because they are old, doesn't mean they are kid friendly. A bit won't change much if you have a frightened kid and a horse who's taking advantage of them, because they kid won't be able to use it!
Most 4yo I know are able to balance and stay on a horse while going slow. Trotting is sometimes iffy. A magic seat would probably be ok.
My daughter was timid at 4 but she could sit a trot and lope both on a leadline without her butt moving. She fell off some at 2, but by 4 she had good balance and was developing a seat. Every kid is different, but I don’t think she’s unusual. |
|
| |
|
Miss Laundry Misshap
Posts: 5271
| Three 4 Luck - 2017-11-06 4:24 PM Nateracer - 2017-11-06 2:03 PM I think one thing to consider is if the horse will come down for a little person. Just because they are old, doesn't mean they are kid friendly. A bit won't change much if you have a frightened kid and a horse who's taking advantage of them, because they kid won't be able to use it!
Most 4yo I know are able to balance and stay on a horse while going slow. Trotting is sometimes iffy. A magic seat would probably be ok. My daughter was timid at 4 but she could sit a trot and lope both on a leadline without her butt moving. She fell off some at 2, but by 4 she had good balance and was developing a seat. Every kid is different, but I don’t think she’s unusual.
I'm not saying they can't ride. I know some pretty small kids who can even run a barrel horse. But a very beginner on a big horse sometimes the trot is rough. My horse will bounce me out sometimes! That's where a magic seat might help them.
Shoot, some of those little sprouts can out run most of the adults! |
|
| |
|
Elite Veteran
Posts: 1074
| I over-bit my horses for my children, and both of my kids rode in a magic seat. My son is 3 and he rides in a "7" roping bit with a tie-down. Our horses are very broke and mind well, but I want my child to be able to control them no matter what. My goal with the magic seat is to prevent my kids from bouncing off when a horse stops hard. The velcro does come lose and they can still come off, but until they have enough leg length to grip with, they ride with the magic seat. |
|
| |
Folks on-line