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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| If a stallion that has a 5 panel test done and comes back
HYPP N/N
GBED N/N
HERDA N/N
PSSM1 N/P1
MH N/N
Can this be passed down to his foals? I read that if the mare is
PSSM N/N that the foals will not test positive, is that true?
Thank you!!!
Also, this detour you from breeding to the stallion if your mare is N/N | |
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Member
Posts: 41
| Yes, it can be passed down to his foals. One copy of each gene comes from the sire and one from the mare. While a foal out of a N/N mare will not get the PSSM1 gene from its dam, it has a 50% chance of inheriting the PSSM1 gene from its sire. So, half of the stallion's foals will be N/P1 and half will be N/N.
PSSM1 is a dominant gene, so horses that are N/P1 are affected. This would definitely deter me from breeding to a stallion -- there are so many issues out there that I wouldn't want to start with already having a 50% chance of getting a foal with a serious disease. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| See I get confused on this because I am pulling this from a web site that says differently and on a well known stallion
A Smooth Guy Disease Panel Test Results
HERDA N/HRD - Carries one copy of the HERDA Gene
GBED - Heterozygous (One Normal and One GBED Gene)
HYPP - NEGATIVE * MH - Negative * PSSM1 - NEGATIVE
Keep in mind that both sire and dam must have the gene in order for it to be expressed in the offspring.
The HERDA trait is most frequently seen in the Poco Bueno line of horses. The GBED defect has been found in Thoroughbreds. For additional questions or information, please call us at (405) 449-7575.
And his offspring have done well, just a different negative. | |
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| Easy Rider - 2017-12-09 10:40 PM
See I get confused on this because I am pulling this from a web site that says differently and on a well known stallion
A Smooth Guy Disease Panel Test Results
HERDA N/HRD - Carries one copy of the HERDA Gene
GBED - Heterozygous (One Normal and One GBED Gene)
HYPP - NEGATIVE * MH - Negative * PSSM1 - NEGATIVE
Keep in mind that both sire and dam must have the gene in order for it to be expressed in the offspring.
The HERDA trait is most frequently seen in the Poco Bueno line of horses. The GBED defect has been found in Thoroughbreds. For additional questions or information, please call us at (405) 449-7575.
And his offspring have done well, just a different negative.
HERDA is recessive, whereas PSSM1 is dominant. Since HERDA is recessive, you need two copies of the gene for the horse to be affected, whereas with PSSM1 you only need one copy of the gene to be affected.
What that means is that if you breed a N/N horse to a N/HRD (carrier horse), you have a 50% chance of getting another carrier horse, but the foal will not be affected. If you breed two carriers, then you have a 50% chance the foal will be a carrier, a 25% chance of getting an affected foal, and a 25% chance of getting a normal foal.
ETA: GBED is also recessive, so the same probabilities apply as with HERDA.
Edited by madredepeanut 2017-12-10 8:39 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 8:34 AM
Easy Rider - 2017-12-09 10:40 PM
See I get confused on this because I am pulling this from a web site that says differently and on a well known stallion
A Smooth Guy Disease Panel Test Results
HERDA N/HRD - Carries one copy of the HERDA Gene
GBED - Heterozygous (One Normal and One GBED Gene)
HYPP - NEGATIVE * MH - Negative * PSSM1 - NEGATIVE
Keep in mind that both sire and dam must have the gene in order for it to be expressed in the offspring.
The HERDA trait is most frequently seen in the Poco Bueno line of horses. The GBED defect has been found in Thoroughbreds. For additional questions or information, please call us at (405) 449-7575.
And his offspring have done well, just a different negative.
HERDA is recessive, whereas PSSM1 is dominant. Since HERDA is recessive, you need two copies of the gene for the horse to be affected, whereas with PSSM1 you only need one copy of the gene to be affected.
What that means is that if you breed a N/N horse to a N/HRD (carrier horse ), you have a 50% chance of getting another carrier horse, but the foal will not be affected. If you breed two carriers, then you have a 50% chance the foal will be a carrier, a 25% chance of getting an affected foal, and a 25% chance of getting a normal foal.
ETA: GBED is also recessive, so the same probabilities apply as with HERDA.
Leanrning something new every day!
Thank you for that explanation. I admit I don’t know much about these these things but trying to do my research.
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| Another question if I could pick your genetic brain a little more, if the suspected starter on a horses pedigree is over 5 generations back, does that eventually dilute it? I’m really dumb when it comes to most of this and appreciate the answers | |
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| Easy Rider - 2017-12-10 6:55 AM
Another question if I could pick your genetic brain a little more, if the suspected starter on a horses pedigree is over 5 generations back, does that eventually dilute it? I’m really dumb when it comes to most of this and appreciate the answers
With these genetic diseases, it's either they have it, don't have it, or are a carrier, it's not a thing that can be diluted out.
It all depends on if the horse in question has been tested. If the horse has been tested and is N/N for all 5 diseases, then you are good to go. If you're wanting to breed to a stud that isn't 5 panel tested, for me that is a red flag. So many people are testing their horses these days, not sending in the hair sample and money seems pretty shady to me. If the horse itself isn't tested, you could look at its dam and sire and see what their 5 panel was. If they weren't tested and it's your horse, I highly suggest just getting the horse tested, so you can know.
This is what we are all here for, so I am glad to answer anything! If I don't have an answer, hopefully someone else on here does! | |
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Member
Posts: 41
| Are mares (used for breeding) required to be 5 panel tested with AQHA? Or is just stallions? If not, is AQHA planning on requiring that in the future? Thanks. | |
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| 123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 4:09 PM
Are mares (used for breeding) required to be 5 panel tested with AQHA? Or is just stallions? If not, is AQHA planning on requiring that in the future? Thanks.
I know I had to 5 panel test my TB mare to register her with the AQHA to register her coming foal, but I don’t believe they are requiring mares to be tested before breeding. I’m not sure if they would be able to enforce that, as there are so many people breeding. But maybe to register the foals they would require it? Hopefully someone involved with the AQHA on here can shed some light! | |
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Member
Posts: 41
| madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 6:16 PM
123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 4:09 PM
Are mares (used for breeding) required to be 5 panel tested with AQHA? Or is just stallions? If not, is AQHA planning on requiring that in the future? Thanks.
I know I had to 5 panel test my TB mare to register her with the AQHA to register her coming foal, but I don’t believe they are requiring mares to be tested before breeding. I’m not sure if they would be able to enforce that, as there are so many people breeding. But maybe to register the foals they would require it? Hopefully someone involved with the AQHA on here can shed some light!
Thank you! Someone told me they were going to be requiring mares to be tested before the foals could be registered, but I haven't been able to find anything official from AQHA?? Maybe someone else here will know :) | |
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
 
Location: Arkansas | Bump | |
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  Roan Wonder
Location: SW MO | Right now only stallions have to be tested before foals can be registered, I'm sure in the years to come mares will also be required. I assume they will do it like they did with DNA and it will move a year backwards every year so that people don't have pay for all their mares in the same year.
That is thing that really irks me about AQHA raising their fees in 2018
People already have the extra cost of 5 panel testing now, a $100 per horse. Most people we know including us are working on getting their mares done, but I'm afraid with AQHA's rising cost people will put it off. You also have the cost of loosing breeding stock that test positive. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| If I have it correct, it wasn't until 2016 that AQHA stallions were required to have the 5 panel, and I can see where it would be a requirement for mares in the future as well.
And for those in the business, I bet that will hurt if they require it all in one year, I can't imagine, only having one isn't so bad.
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 Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | 123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 5:25 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 6:16 PM
123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 4:09 PM
Are mares (used for breeding) required to be 5 panel tested with AQHA? Or is just stallions? If not, is AQHA planning on requiring that in the future? Thanks.
I know I had to 5 panel test my TB mare to register her with the AQHA to register her coming foal, but I don’t believe they are requiring mares to be tested before breeding. I’m not sure if they would be able to enforce that, as there are so many people breeding. But maybe to register the foals they would require it? Hopefully someone involved with the AQHA on here can shed some light!
Thank you! Someone told me they were going to be requiring mares to be tested before the foals could be registered, but I haven't been able to find anything official from AQHA?? Maybe someone else here will know : )
Not yet. But I think it's coming. It's the next logical step.
Another thing to be aware of. There is research that has discovered 4 more muscle myopathies that are very common in TB and QH race lines. They are developing a DNA test for that now. It's in the publishing/peer review stage right now. They "think" there is one, maybe two more myopathies as some horses have symptoms but test clean for all currently available tests. Since new rules come from members, it might not be long before it's a 9 panel test or more. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| OregonBR - 2017-12-11 10:47 AM
123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 5:25 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 6:16 PM
123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 4:09 PM
Are mares (used for breeding) required to be 5 panel tested with AQHA? Or is just stallions? If not, is AQHA planning on requiring that in the future? Thanks.
I know I had to 5 panel test my TB mare to register her with the AQHA to register her coming foal, but I don’t believe they are requiring mares to be tested before breeding. I’m not sure if they would be able to enforce that, as there are so many people breeding. But maybe to register the foals they would require it? Hopefully someone involved with the AQHA on here can shed some light!
Thank you! Someone told me they were going to be requiring mares to be tested before the foals could be registered, but I haven't been able to find anything official from AQHA?? Maybe someone else here will know : )
Not yet. But I think it's coming. It's the next logical step.
Another thing to be aware of. There is research that has discovered 4 more muscle myopathies that are very common in TB and QH race lines. They are developing a DNA test for that now. It's in the publishing/peer review stage right now. They "think" there is one, maybe two more myopathies as some horses have symptoms but test clean for all currently available tests. Since new rules come from members, it might not be long before it's a 9 panel test or more.
Oh wow, it makes you wonder how many competitive horses currently have something like this... From reading some are manageable, so that’s good | |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Easy Rider - 2017-12-11 5:27 PM
OregonBR - 2017-12-11 10:47 AM
123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 5:25 PM
madredepeanut - 2017-12-10 6:16 PM
123barrelracer - 2017-12-10 4:09 PM
Are mares (used for breeding) required to be 5 panel tested with AQHA? Or is just stallions? If not, is AQHA planning on requiring that in the future? Thanks.
I know I had to 5 panel test my TB mare to register her with the AQHA to register her coming foal, but I don’t believe they are requiring mares to be tested before breeding. I’m not sure if they would be able to enforce that, as there are so many people breeding. But maybe to register the foals they would require it? Hopefully someone involved with the AQHA on here can shed some light!
Thank you! Someone told me they were going to be requiring mares to be tested before the foals could be registered, but I haven't been able to find anything official from AQHA?? Maybe someone else here will know : )
Not yet. But I think it's coming. It's the next logical step.
Another thing to be aware of. There is research that has discovered 4 more muscle myopathies that are very common in TB and QH race lines. They are developing a DNA test for that now. It's in the publishing/peer review stage right now. They "think" there is one, maybe two more myopathies as some horses have symptoms but test clean for all currently available tests. Since new rules come from members, it might not be long before it's a 9 panel test or more.
Oh wow, it makes you wonder how many competitive horses currently have something like this... From reading some are manageable, so that’s good
Trust me MANY of the top stallions that command $4000+ stud fees have one or more. | |
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| I noticed on some studs advertisements that some say 5 panel neg and others don't even mention it.
So, if you have a mare by a sire like that,(that tests positive on one of those panels) and have her tested and she is N/N will her colts all be N/N because she is?
Thank you everyone for shedding light on this for me. | |
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Champ
Posts: 19623
Location: Peg-Leg Julia Grimm | Easy Rider - 2017-12-13 7:45 AM
I noticed on some studs advertisements that some say 5 panel neg and others don't even mention it.
So, if you have a mare by a sire like that,(that tests positive on one of those panels) and have her tested and she is N/N will her colts all be N/N because she is?
Thank you everyone for shedding light on this for me.
Every foal gets one copy of every gene from their sire and one from their dam. So any and all qualities that the sire has or the dam has will pass on to the foals. Whether something is expressed outwardly depends on whether the gene is recessive or dominant and if either the sire or the dam are heterozygous or homozygous for that gene. If something is dominant and the parent is homozygous for the gene the foal will get it 100% of the time. And since it's dominant the foal will express it.
Just because a foal/mare/stallion has a positive parent doesn't mean they will be positive unless the parent is homozygous for the gene. PSSM1 is dominant. Which means if they have one gene, they are affected and will pass it on. How often they pass it on depends on if they are homozygous or heterozygous for that gene. A P1/P1 horse (homozygous) will have positive foal 100% of the time. A n/P1 horse will have a positive foal 50% of the time.
AQHA stallions are ALL required to have been 5 panel tested in order to register any foal by them. If a stallion owner isn't disclosing the stallions test results publicly you can call AQHA and they will tell you if they are tested and what those results are. I recommend calling on every stallion you are seriously considering breeding to, because some people are confused by the genetics and might not think it's a big deal. It is if you get a positive foal and it's symptomatic. I wouldn't breed to a stallion who hasn't been tested yet because that's a major red flag for me.
Edited by OregonBR 2017-12-13 11:51 AM
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Elite Veteran
Posts: 1012
| OregonBR - 2017-12-13 11:49 AM
Easy Rider - 2017-12-13 7:45 AM
I noticed on some studs advertisements that some say 5 panel neg and others don't even mention it.
So, if you have a mare by a sire like that,(that tests positive on one of those panels) and have her tested and she is N/N will her colts all be N/N because she is?
Thank you everyone for shedding light on this for me.
Every foal gets one copy of every gene from their sire and one from their dam. So any and all qualities that the sire has or the dam has will pass on to the foals. Whether something is expressed outwardly depends on whether the gene is recessive or dominant and if either the sire or the dam are heterozygous or homozygous for that gene. If something is dominant and the parent is homozygous for the gene the foal will get it 100% of the time. And since it's dominant the foal will express it.
Just because a foal/mare/stallion has a positive parent doesn't mean they will be positive unless the parent is homozygous for the gene. PSSM1 is dominant. Which means if they have one gene, they are affected and will pass it on. How often they pass it on depends on if they are homozygous or heterozygous for that gene. A P1/P1 horse (homozygous ) will have positive foal 100% of the time. A n/P1 horse will have a positive foal 50% of the time.
AQHA stallions are ALL required to have been 5 panel tested in order to register any foal by them. If a stallion owner isn't disclosing the stallions test results publicly you can call AQHA and they will tell you if they are tested and what those results are. I recommend calling on every stallion you are seriously considering breeding to, because some people are confused by the genetics and might not think it's a big deal. It is if you get a positive foal and it's symptomatic. I wouldn't breed to a stallion who hasn't been tested yet because that's a major red flag for me.
Wow, that is a great explanation.
So if a foal is tested that is by a N/P1 stud, and foal comes back N/N it is considered heterozygous, and all of that (lets just say foal is a mare) mares foals will be heterozygous for that gene providing you breed to a N/N stallion?
Thank you again!
I am slow at learning this but I wanted to fully understand it, because just like you said above, there are a lot of us that are confused by genetics and I didn't know if it was or wasn't a big deal.
Edited by Easy Rider 2017-12-13 2:05 PM
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Member
Posts: 41
| Easy Rider - 2017-12-13 2:03 PM
OregonBR - 2017-12-13 11:49 AM
Easy Rider - 2017-12-13 7:45 AM
I noticed on some studs advertisements that some say 5 panel neg and others don't even mention it.
So, if you have a mare by a sire like that,(that tests positive on one of those panels) and have her tested and she is N/N will her colts all be N/N because she is?
Thank you everyone for shedding light on this for me.
Every foal gets one copy of every gene from their sire and one from their dam. So any and all qualities that the sire has or the dam has will pass on to the foals. Whether something is expressed outwardly depends on whether the gene is recessive or dominant and if either the sire or the dam are heterozygous or homozygous for that gene. If something is dominant and the parent is homozygous for the gene the foal will get it 100% of the time. And since it's dominant the foal will express it.
Just because a foal/mare/stallion has a positive parent doesn't mean they will be positive unless the parent is homozygous for the gene. PSSM1 is dominant. Which means if they have one gene, they are affected and will pass it on. How often they pass it on depends on if they are homozygous or heterozygous for that gene. A P1/P1 horse (homozygous ) will have positive foal 100% of the time. A n/P1 horse will have a positive foal 50% of the time.
AQHA stallions are ALL required to have been 5 panel tested in order to register any foal by them. If a stallion owner isn't disclosing the stallions test results publicly you can call AQHA and they will tell you if they are tested and what those results are. I recommend calling on every stallion you are seriously considering breeding to, because some people are confused by the genetics and might not think it's a big deal. It is if you get a positive foal and it's symptomatic. I wouldn't breed to a stallion who hasn't been tested yet because that's a major red flag for me.
Wow, that is a great explanation.
So if a foal is tested that is by a N/P1 stud, and foal comes back N/N it is considered heterozygous, and all of that (lets just say foal is a mare ) mares foals will be heterozygous for that gene providing you breed to a N/N stallion?
Thank you again!
I am slow at learning this but I wanted to fully understand it, because just like you said above, there are a lot of us that are confused by genetics and I didn't know if it was or wasn't a big deal.
Yes, any foals out of that N/N mare will also be N/N as long as you breed to an N/N stallion. She got lucky and inherited the "N" gene from her N/P1 sire instead of the "P1".
I think you are confusing the terms "heterozygous" and "homozygous", though. "Heterozygous" means that there are two different genes -- in this case N/P1. "Homozygous" means that there are two genes of the same type -- either P1/P1 or N/N. So, it may be helpful to specify "homozygous positive" or "homozygous negative" for a certain gene. It may be a strange way to think of it, but the same prefixes are used when talking about sexuality: "heterosexual" means man+woman (2 different genders) and "homosexual" means man+man or woman+woman (2 of the same gender). | |
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