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Expert
Posts: 2685
   
| Please don't flame other people here. I just want to talk about it. I now have 3 horses with paint papers. 2 of them also have QH papers, so if I ever had to sell them I wouldn't have an issue, but this other filly is a solid running bred (mostly QH) paint and due to that, a lot of people won't even consider her. In my mind, if you don't want to breed a solid paint (or a paint at all) she's the equivalent of a gelding. People will be more apt to buy an AQHA gelding that doesn't have as nice of papers as she has (or as nice of training etc). It kills me. I'll be honest, I have never been a huge fan of paints, mostly because of resale value, but it wouldn't stop me from looking at one based on performance (if that's what I'm looking for).
I guess my point of this discussion is to ask if you think there is a stigma associated with paints, if so, do you think it is warranted? Why? Do you have any paint horses? What is the best way to go about marketing them? Emphasize their ability instead of breeding? |
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  Neat Freak
Posts: 11216
 
Location: Wonderful Wyoming | yep, emphasis on ability, very little on breeding. You can go to the Heritage and buy a Champion paint for under $10k and you wouldn't touch a similar bred AQHA Champion for less than $50-$75k I don't think. We stopped breeding them because even bred well and fancy colored they aren't popular. Same with Appy's. No one is saying they can't be good horses, they just aren't marketable. |
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 Fact Checker
Posts: 16572
Location: Displaced Iowegian | I don't (and never have) care what color or breed the horse is ..... as long as it fits MY program. |
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 Saint Stacey
| From a race track standpoint, apps and paints aren’t as fast as QH are. We’ve watched trials for futurties, same day, same distance, same owners, jockeys and trainers. The fastest horse in the app and paint trials would have qualified 9th in the QH group.
That said, if I like an app or paint then I’d buy it. If a horse is proven enough, then what they are won’t matter when it comes to selling. It’s the ones that are mediocre that don’t sell as well. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | NJJ - 2018-02-11 12:06 PM I don't (and never have) care what color or breed the horse is ..... as long as it fits MY program.
Same here I did'nt care what breed are color as long as I liked the horse and did what I wanted it to do I bought it.  |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| SKM - 2018-02-11 1:10 PM
From a race track standpoint, apps and paints aren’t as fast as QH are. We’ve watched trials for futurties, same day, same distance, same owners, jockeys and trainers. The fastest horse in the app and paint trials would have qualified 9th in the QH group.
That said, if I like an app or paint then I’d buy it. If a horse is proven enough, then what they are won’t matter when it comes to selling. It’s the ones that are mediocre that don’t sell as well.
I do agree about the race horse statement. I am near Remington and the paints don't usually hold a candle to the QHs. |
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 Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Many top barrel horses are solid paints. Sadly, no one even knows that they are paints. Another sad fact is the management of APHA. They moved out of their nice building in Ft Worth out to the Stockyards. Their promotion of the breed is nonexistent. Don't know who is incharge of the PBRIP but they are limited in their knowledge of barrel racing which is a shame. Another fact is that paint popularity goes in cycles. Without the association to promote the breed, paints are going to continue losing popularity.
This is how efficient they are. The paint in my avatar won Reserve World champion in poles. When the class placing came out on the internet my horse was not even listed as an entry in the class at all. He earned his ROM at the World Show and I got it 4 years to the day after he earned it. I think it took 10 phone calls and an email to get the darn thing.
One other thing. APHA treats solid color paints like step children, they can't enter the regular registry classes. My horse obviously is not solid but it is still not fair. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| SKM - 2018-02-11 1:10 PM
From a race track standpoint, apps and paints aren’t as fast as QH are. We’ve watched trials for futurties, same day, same distance, same owners, jockeys and trainers. The fastest horse in the app and paint trials would have qualified 9th in the QH group.
That said, if I like an app or paint then I’d buy it. If a horse is proven enough, then what they are won’t matter when it comes to selling. It’s the ones that are mediocre that don’t sell as well.
Those statements right there have a major bearing on why people don't buy paints when they are looking for 1D or futurity horses |
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 Country Fried Chicken Gal
Posts: 7697
| I've always wanted a flashy paint...still do. With that said, I am not in the breeding or selling business. Usually anything I end up with stays with me. I get too attached to the darned things to sell them. Then, if I do sell I usually price too low becuase I'd rather make sure they go to a good home than just to try to make money off them. I'm a terrible horse business person. As to the answer to your question, yes I do think there is a stigma but I don't know why. To me, a horse is a horse is a horse. If it does what I need it or want it to do, I don't care about color or breeding. If I were looking at it for resale value, yes I'd have to consider breeding and color I suppose. |
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Expert
Posts: 2685
| streakysox - 2018-02-11 1:53 PM
Many top barrel horses are solid paints. Sadly, no one even knows that they are paints. Another sad fact is the management of APHA. They moved out of their nice building in Ft Worth out to the Stockyards. Their promotion of the breed is nonexistent. Don't know who is incharge of the PBRIP but they are limited in their knowledge of barrel racing which is a shame. Another fact is that paint popularity goes in cycles. Without the association to promote the breed, paints are going to continue losing popularity.
This is how efficient they are. The paint in my avatar won Reserve World champion in poles. When the class placing came out on the internet my horse was not even listed as an entry in the class at all. He earned his ROM at the World Show and I got it 4 years to the day after he earned it. I think it took 10 phone calls and an email to get the darn thing.
One other thing. APHA treats solid color paints like step children, they can't enter the regular registry classes. My horse obviously is not solid but it is still not fair.
this is so sad. I didn't know the APHA was that terribly ran now. |
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Boot Detective
Posts: 1898
| Paints are known for having crappy white feet and for tending to be "goofy", maybe not the most intelligent breed. I have owned several and I own a solid paint now. Speaking from experience if you get one too hot, some of them will sull up and play dumb. The one I own now should have been dual registered with AQHA but her prior owners dropped the ball. She doesn't fit the stigma speedwise or mental attitude but she does have the white feet that will not hold shoes good. (sigh ;( ). I think the bigger issue that has turned so many against buying paints is the fact that so many people have invested in them and bred to paints expecting a paint colored up foal and they turn out solid. The solid paints just won't sell good unless you sit on them until they are grown and winning. So the investor is losing money raising them. |
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Veteran
Posts: 141
| We have a local lady that breeds her paint mare every year (almost) and its crapped out a bunch of winners, but its solid and most never know that the babies come from a paint mare.
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 Accident Prone
Posts: 22277
Location: 100 miles from Nowhere, AR | I have a solid paint mare that’s at least 7/8 AQHA. She has a really nice AQHA daddy, her mama was bred real nice, and I would put this mare in the top 2 horses I have thrown a leg over. Unfortunately she crippled herself in a stall accident before I got to enter her and isn’t going to be able to run barrels. I thought I would be able to sell her as a broodie because of her breeding, but nope. People find out she has paint papers and run really fast the other way. |
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Regular
Posts: 93
| Well I have rode paint horses my whole life about 40 years worth and I can tell you that I have heard every Indian Paint Horse joke on the planet. But when I beat them in the arena they shut up real quick. :) As far as resale value, if they are winning they will bring $$. Paints are in high demand around here. An I like to ride a little bling in the arena don't you. :)
Edited by prober 2018-02-11 5:51 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 286
| I own a Poodle...that's enough white to have to keep clean for me. ;-)
Nothing against a Paint....I just don't want to have to try and keep one looking clean. |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| Three 4 Luck - 2018-02-11 5:18 PM
 I have a solid paint mare that’s at least 7/8 AQHA.  She has a really nice AQHA daddy, her mama was bred real nice, and I would put this mare in the top 2 horses I have thrown a leg over. Unfortunately she crippled herself in a stall accident before I  got to enter her and isn’t going to be able to run barrels.  I thought I would be able to sell her as a broodie because of her breeding, but nope. People find out she has paint papers and run really fast the other way. Â
Sad but true |
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A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | prober - 2018-02-11 5:43 PM
Well I have rode paint horses my whole life about 40 years worth and I can tell you that I have heard every Indian Paint Horse joke on the planet. But when I beat them in the arena they shut up real quick. :) As far as resale value, if they are winning they will bring $$. Paints are in high demand around here. An I like to ride a little bling in the arena don't you. :)
I like a good looking sorrel or bay myself.. So where do you live thats in high demands for paints? Just curious  |
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 Warrior Mom
Posts: 4400
| I own a paint horse... I adore him... I never knew so many people didn't like them until I purchased him! Once they realized he was a paint, they just kinda wrinkled their nose and said "oh, he's a paint" ..he looks white .. until he gets wet then you can see he's an actual paint. He's a jam up head horse and he's taking to the barrels pretty well, plus he makes me smile!
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 My Heart Be Happy
Posts: 9159
Location: Arkansas | want2chase3 - 2018-02-11 7:41 PM
I own a paint horse... I adore him... I never knew so many people didn't like them until I purchased him! Once they realized he was a paint, they just kinda wrinkled their nose and said "oh, he's a paint" ..he looks white .. until he gets wet then you can see he's an actual paint. He's a jam up head horse and he's taking to the barrels pretty well, plus he makes me smile!
I think he's a beauty---and if he makes you smile, nuff said!!
(Give J a hug for us!) |
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Take a Picture
Posts: 12838
| I think the mismanagement is because of their executive officer. They have moved out of their beautiful office and relocated to somewhere out around Will Rogers Coliseum. This is a color registry. You have to treat everyone equally--solid or not. At the World Show there were certainly a lot of solid horses. Don't even get me started on PBRIP. The Sweepstakes barrel race at the World Show is very poorly managed as well and again is split into solid and regular registry. If managed properly they could easily get 200 entries. As it is set up they get about 40.
Mine is one I raised. His job is to take care of me not necessarily to win--he has done that. I will say he does his job well.
Also I am an APHA member because I do own one. A few sponsors give you good deals on stuff. |
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