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 Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
 
Location: Texas | My mare has recently started to not want to pick up her back feet, particularly her left back. Sometimes she won't give it to you at all and other times she'll pick it up but kind of get shakey and immediately put it down. She moves sound when I'm riding her and for a flex test at the vet or is very very slightly lame. The vet injected her stifles and SI. He thought she didn't want to pick up the left because the right stifle had fluid on it and so it was too sore to put her weight on it to pick up the left back. He also felt her soreness in her SI came from compestating for the sore stifles. She was better after injections but still isn't picking her feet up great. Not as bad as before, but not as good as I would like or think is normal. So my question is, has anyone ever had this happen and what did you decide it was? Or do you think it could be EPM? She has no other signs of neurological or lameness issues. I was told by someone that if you can lift their tail straight up and if it goes very far up that's a sign of EPM, but according to our friend who is an equine vet he didn't think that was a sure sign at all. He said that the blood test and/or spinal fluid test are the only true tests. He also said blood tests are 85% accurate on if it comes back positive. I'm just wanting some thoughts and/or maybe experiences with this. |
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 Hummer's Hero
Posts: 3071
 
Location: Smack Dab in the Middle | My mare couldn't pick up her feet right before she got really bad--as in couldn't walk right. In hindsight, she had other symptoms too, it was just all a bunch of little things that all made sense after she tested positive. But that's the hardest part about EPM...it can imitate SO many other things that it can be missed so easily.
I'm one of those that believe that most horses in the south 2/3 of our country will test positive for it. It's just whether the protozoa are able to get a strong hold and cause problems. |
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Veteran
Posts: 233
| Epm, pssm, lymes. . . But I would get moving on something. With epm, the longer it goes untreated the worse the damage gets. Some of the pssm variants will cause muscle wasting that can take years to correct, if it can be fixed. Lymes, progression can lead to a whack job that flips. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | hannahbug - 2018-02-26 4:00 PM
Epm, pssm, lymes. . . But I would get moving on something. With epm, the longer it goes untreated the worse the damage gets. Some of the pssm variants will cause muscle wasting that can take years to correct, if it can be fixed. Lymes, progression can lead to a whack job that flips.
She's going to the vet Wednesday for the Epm blood test. I have read a little on the PSSM but don't know much on Lyme disease in horses. Thanks for your input and I'll check that out too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | RockinGR - 2018-02-26 3:11 PM
My mare couldn't pick up her feet right before she got really bad--as in couldn't walk right. In hindsight, she had other symptoms too, it was just all a bunch of little things that all made sense after she tested positive. But that's the hardest part about EPM...it can imitate SO many other things that it can be missed so easily.
I'm one of those that believe that most horses in the south 2/3 of our country will test positive for it. It's just whether the protozoa are able to get a strong hold and cause problems.
Thanks so much for your thoughts. I'm definitely going to get going on getting her tested. I agree lots of horses will test positive for it. Being it does mimic other things I think that makes it hard to deal with. I want to be proactive and get it treated asap it it is that.
Edited by TXBarrelRacer84 2018-02-26 4:24 PM
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 Saint Stacey
| EPM is blamed most of the time when it’s actually wobblers. I know your vet said the SI was because of the stifles. But sore SI’s can also be a sign of wobblers. Many people simply start EPM meds. I know of a few wobblers that showed improvement on the EPM meds (including my own) so they thought it was EPM only to discover it was actually wobblers. |
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| Sounds like Shivers to me. Gait abnormality when back up is the main characterization of shivers.
I just read a study about this. In many neurological diseases such as EPM, horses cant keep track of where their limbs are in a space. HOWEVER, horses with shivers seem to know exactly WHAT they needed to do with their hooves, but they just couldnt do it. It didnt look like pain, weakness or in-coordination, but more like confusion, frustration, and even fear. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | SKM - 2018-02-26 4:48 PM EPM is blamed most of the time when it’s actually wobblers. I know your vet said the SI was because of the stifles. But sore SI’s can also be a sign of wobblers. Many people simply start EPM meds. I know of a few wobblers that showed improvement on the EPM meds (including my own) so they thought it was EPM only to discover it was actually wobblers.
Interesting. I will definitely check into that too. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | WrapN3MN - 2018-02-26 4:57 PM
Sounds like Shivers to me. Gait abnormality when back up is the main characterization of shivers.
I just read a study about this. In many neurological diseases such as EPM, horses cant keep track of where their limbs are in a space. HOWEVER, horses with shivers seem to know exactly WHAT they needed to do with their hooves, but they just couldnt do it. It didnt look like pain, weakness or in-coordination, but more like confusion, frustration, and even fear.
I read a little about that when googling about this. I just have no idea what direction to go. Thanks so much for your input. |
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boon
Posts: 4
| I would check for wobblers... JMO. |
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| It sounds to me like she could be conditioned to think it's still going to hurt her right stifle when she lifts that left leg up, so she doesn't want to do it. A lot of horses will compensate for pain, which it sounds like she has been doing. If this issue has been going on for awhile and now you think you have it sorted out, it could just take her a bit to understand it doesn't hurt every time that leg is raised up, because she is so conditioned to brace for that pain.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 534
Location: Ohio girl moved to PA | madredepeanut - 2018-02-26 11:20 PM It sounds to me like she could be conditioned to think it's still going to hurt her right stifle when she lifts that left leg up, so she doesn't want to do it. A lot of horses will compensate for pain, which it sounds like she has been doing. If this issue has been going on for awhile and now you think you have it sorted out, it could just take her a bit to understand it doesn't hurt every time that leg is raised up, because she is so conditioned to brace for that pain.
i totally agree with this. After we got my guys hocks done it took him about 2-3 weeks to realize it wasnt going to hurt him anymore and he was back to his old self. How long has it been since you did the injections? |
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 Hugs to You
Posts: 7549
Location: In The Land of Cotton | That is how we found our EPM. We did a spinal tap. Which confirmed it.
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | Ohiobarrelracer - 2018-02-27 6:56 AM madredepeanut - 2018-02-26 11:20 PM It sounds to me like she could be conditioned to think it's still going to hurt her right stifle when she lifts that left leg up, so she doesn't want to do it. A lot of horses will compensate for pain, which it sounds like she has been doing. If this issue has been going on for awhile and now you think you have it sorted out, it could just take her a bit to understand it doesn't hurt every time that leg is raised up, because she is so conditioned to brace for that pain. i totally agree with this. After we got my guys hocks done it took him about 2-3 weeks to realize it wasnt going to hurt him anymore and he was back to his old self. How long has it been since you did the injections?
She had her injections Feb. 5th. She was off for 5 days after that, and picked them up okay after her time off from the injections. She had her feet done by our farrier about a week ago, he said she didn't want to pick it up at first but then did okay. To add to the problem, she kicked the fence or something and has made her left back sore (it was swollen on the lower cannon and around her ankle) so she's been battling that too. I agree on her compensating for the pain and not knowing it's okay now. She has only not picked her feet up since late Jan and she went to the vet on the 5th so it's not like she has been doing this for months, but still just worries me. I also am questionting the EPM thing because I was told her tail being able to be lifted means she has weakness in her spine which is a sign of EPM. So when I researched not picking up her back legs all of sudden many articles/research point to EPM or the PSSM. I haven't read much about Lymes, Wobblers, or shivers but going to check into those. She's going to the vet tomorrow for a blood test for EPM just to be safe then I'll go from there, but just want to be proactive if it is more than just soreness. |
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 Some Kind of Trouble
Posts: 4430
| Yes, my EPM horse had this problem... and I agree the "tail test" is not accurate. |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 545
Location: Texas | Well according the blood test she is positive for EPM and her level is either 1-500 or 1-2000, one of our other horses was tested at the same time and the vet swore my mare would be negative and that horse positive so he was shocked when her test was the 1-2000. Waiting on a second test because he thinks the tubes might have been switched (says though doesn't matter 1-500 or 1-2000 both are positive) and then move forward with some form of treatment. Definitely not what I wanted to hear, but hopefully it's in the early stages and can be treated with little to no side effects. |
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 Expert
Posts: 1857
| TXBarrelRacer84 - 2018-03-02 10:30 AM
Well according the blood test she is positive for EPM and her level is either 1-500 or 1-2000, one of our other horses was tested at the same time and the vet swore my mare would be negative and that horse positive so he was shocked when her test was the 1-2000. Waiting on a second test because he thinks the tubes might have been switched (says though doesn't matter 1-500 or 1-2000 both are positive) and then move forward with some form of treatment. Definitely not what I wanted to hear, but hopefully it's in the early stages and can be treated with little to no side effects.
5-day IV Diclazuril has been the quickest and easiest treatment I have found so far. My Uncle swears by it on the track so I tried it and was impressed. I've tried Marquis, Orogin/Levamisole that you get from that place in Florida, and a paste you get from Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy(mixture of Levamisole/diclazuril/vitamin E). I have not tried Rebalance so I couldn't give an opinion on that one.
I've treated numerous horses, I got spinal taps done and a couple others I just did it, and I will never waste my money on Marquis again!! The Weatherford Compound wasn't expensive but I didn't see results. The Orogin/Levamisole seemed to work but I ended up treating again and then went to the Diclazuril.
Don't expect one treatment and the cure, sometimes it never shows again and other times you have to treat 2-3 times. |
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 BHW New Catch of the Day
Posts: 9883
Location: Missouri | I just started my mare on Protozil last Friday. Alfalfa based pellet to top feed. New studies on Protozil are showing it is just as effective giving half dose as full dose. It's a 28 day treatment. For my personal state of mind, I'm giving full dose 14 days and half 14 days.
Might be something to look into if your going to treat 2 horses. |
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 A Somebody to Everybody
Posts: 41354
Location: Under The Big Sky Of Texas | Bumped up for someone that was asking about EPM. |
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Location: in the ozone | FlyingJT - 2018-03-06 4:50 PM TXBarrelRacer84 - 2018-03-02 10:30 AM Well according the blood test she is positive for EPM and her level is either 1-500 or 1-2000, one of our other horses was tested at the same time and the vet swore my mare would be negative and that horse positive so he was shocked when her test was the 1-2000. Waiting on a second test because he thinks the tubes might have been switched (says though doesn't matter 1-500 or 1-2000 both are positive) and then move forward with some form of treatment. Definitely not what I wanted to hear, but hopefully it's in the early stages and can be treated with little to no side effects. 5-day IV Diclazuril has been the quickest and easiest treatment I have found so far. My Uncle swears by it on the track so I tried it and was impressed. I've tried Marquis, Orogin/Levamisole that you get from that place in Florida, and a paste you get from Weatherford Compounding Pharmacy (mixture of Levamisole/diclazuril/vitamin E ). I have not tried Rebalance so I couldn't give an opinion on that one. I've treated numerous horses, I got spinal taps done and a couple others I just did it, and I will never waste my money on Marquis again!! The Weatherford Compound wasn't expensive but I didn't see results. The Orogin/Levamisole seemed to work but I ended up treating again and then went to the Diclazuril. Don't expect one treatment and the cure, sometimes it never shows again and other times you have to treat 2-3 times.
If you are still on here, what was your outcome? Did the EPM treatment clear it all up? Or still more issues? Unfortunately so many vets are either not knowledgeble or willing to acknowledge the commonality of PSSM variants, especially PSSM2 ones in race bred horses. A simple dna test can confirm or exclude whether a person is dealing with any of the PSSM2 variants though. |
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